Finn Seemann wrote:

Macho Man wrote:

This isn't a dig at Ogren.  I want that to be clear from the start.

Ogren just doesn't know football.  Moreso, he doesn't know Scottish football.  I don't hold that against him, far from it.  I think his intentions were genuine - try to make us better and get European football and in doing so make a bit of cash.  He is just involved in a 'business' that he doesn't fully understand.  He is used to franchises in sport.  He doesn't get that our team is part of our personal fabric and a big part of a fans identity.

He was sold a bogey by Asghar.  I personally think that Asghar used Ogrens money to play real life Football Manager.  He was badly advised and because he doesn't know football, or Scottish football, he was easily swayed to make the wrong decisions/moves.  I don't know how successful he was with the other sports he got involved with, but those were closer to home for him and were sports that I'm guessing he was far more familiar with and had a greater understanding of.

We are in a position where we have an owner who doesn't really know the market he is playing in and who is trying to control/run the club from thousands of miles away.  With an element of hindsight, I think he made the wrong decision with Goodwin and before that I think he was guided down the Fox route by Asghar as (I'm assuming) Fox was someone that Asghar would have an element of 'control' or 'influence' over.

I think Ogren needs, for his own sanity, to sell United.  We definitely need an owner who has an understanding of how football works.  We also need a manager who can inspire and get the team playing with a bit of passion and fire instead of the flat, low intensity fare that we have had to watch since Xmas.

No shit, Sherlock!  Do you not read these boards?  Same for David Blunkett (apologies if you don't read!) This has been pointed out from the day Asghar was appointed if you care to listen to people who are not happy clapping.  Can't quite believe these posts genuinely appear to be thinking they have stumbled across something no-one else has seen (astonishing actually).

I'm blind!*

I certainly don't think i'm pointing out anything new, or have stumbled across new info, or had a lightbulb moment, and realise most of what the last few posts have said are old ground.

I was never a happy clapper, or a doom and gloom merchant, I was just sounding off in reply to Macho Man's post, where we find ourselves now is all down to the above so was getting it off my chest.

I was never convinced by Fat Tony, but we (as fans) had no choice really but to allow him the opportunity to fail, for a while-ish  things were going well, but when it turned, it went downhill so rapidly, and the arrogance from Fat Tony, Ogren the players etc re our perilous position was mental.















* Maybe.
 

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:

Presuming Goodwin can't turn things around.  (Beginning to look a bit  of a task)
Presuming McIntyre or any other body wants it.
Presuming Ogren will bite the bullet - after Raith game on that performance.
Won't happen just yet, but like Billy said: shoogly peg.


 

Jim McIntyre.....the relegator????
 

No new manager, no bounce effect, no promotion

....Hope I'm wrong.

I’ve changed my mind, I wanted him a gone at number of occasions last season.

But as you have both said, last seasons points tally would have had us comfortably up a lot sooner, thus far his recruitment even last season has been spot on- signed boys last season who were needed for that league, the signings this summer look bang on the money- early days but I think we’ve upgraded in every position.

Hes ruthless, at the end of last season it could have been easy to get boys like mcmann mochrie meekison to resign, also getting rid of watt and Grimshaw- he doesn’t give a fuck. 

Football is a fickle sport though, we could lose the next 2 and everyone will want him out but right now I actually think he’s done a pretty good job and if all going well at Christmas I’d be giving him a new deal- nothing mental though.

Canadian Arab wrote:

Just had a read through this thread from 5 months ago.  👀

Some truth in points made about Asghar and about how naive and inexperienced the Ogrens are in football, and what that's cost them.

But genuinely interested to know if people have changed their opinions on Jim Goodwin. And if not, what's it going to take?

For transparency, I've never been part of the Goodwin out camp. Only once did I begin to have doubts, after the debacle at East End Park towards the end of last season. But before that, and since then, he has IMO gone about the job in a professional and effective manner, and has achieved the targets he has been set. He has made a number of "big" decisions on players, almost all of which have been met with full approval by the support. There are still a few things that rub some folk up the wrong way, including holding on to one goal leads rather than going for a second (I think that's the players more than Goodwin), but overall I'm seeing far more good than bad.

I think his issue at Aberdeen was that he did not have full control over player recruitment. He does now, and I think we are seeing the benefits. Early days back in the Premier, but I feel hopeful.

If we're mid-table at Christmas, I'd be happy to offer him a contract extension.

I still am not a huge fan if i'm totally honest. But i am not calling for his head now of course, that would just be silly after he won the Championship and has signed 12 players this Summer. I also agreed with him getting rid of so many (including controversial one's like McMann and Mochrie).

But there are still a few things about him that rub me up the wrong way.

As you stated above his propensity for sitting on a one goal lead. Does my absolute head in.

Also him cramming the team with as many defenders as possible. It would not surprise me at all if he plays Sevelj on Saturday but doesn't drop a Holt or Graham.

So, am i won over? No.

But he deserves time to see how the season pans out, on that i now agree.

100% wouldn't be offering him any contract extension till the latter part of the season though. Once we can see how a full season in the Premiership under him actually goes and if we get stronger during the season or weaker, and most importantly for me if he learns from his mistakes.
 

Lose to St Johnstone, Hearts, The New Rangers & Motherwell & he's out on his arse.
That's the size of it I'm afraid.
I don't think we will lose all 4, a St Johnstone win then 3 defeats is more feasible but that might not be enough for him to stay.
Fasten your seat belts, the forums are going to be steaming!
 

I used to post a few years ago on another forum.

It was full of posters who either posted for effect, posted about losing a game and waited for that to happen just to give it big licks about how they knew whatever it was would go wrong or they posted the same opinions as the 'loudest' poster on the forum just to brown nose.

For me, Goodwin wouldn't have been my choice of manager at the outset.  He's won me over and as time goes by, the more relaxed I am about having him as our manager.  Time is something that a lot of managers are not given these days as the game is more about the money than the sport.

I think he has some abilities that are brilliant and some that could be better, but lets face it, that's pretty much every manager out there.

I honestly can't get my head around there being chat of sacking him at this point in time.  I think he's doing a good job, he's just revamped the team who will take a few games to properly gel, but are already performing better than I had expected at this point of the season.

Recruitment has been excellent this season and last season / Louis Moult bought when others thought he was crocked. He managed to get a tune out of Tony Watt. Ruthless enough then to get rid of TW once promoted back up

We won the championship with a good points total

Our return to Premier has been good so far

It’s time to support the manager and the team

We need some stability not speculation about manager when team are doing ok and only just promoted back up

Come on United !!

Arabdownsouth wrote:

United Arab Emarite wrote:

Lose to St Johnstone, Hearts, The New Rangers & Motherwell & he's out on his arse.
That's the size of it I'm afraid.
I don't think we will lose all 4, a St Johnstone win then 3 defeats is more feasible but that might not be enough for him to stay.
Fasten your seat belts, the forums are going to be steaming!
 

 
Pretty defeatist, and also unlikely that he's gonna be gone in a month no matter what the results are.

I'm not being defeatist, I can be a blind optimist when it comes to it, I said we'll not lose all 4.
One win, two draws & one defeat might be reality.
But beware, Jim G is favourite for the Sack Race and whenever there is a semblance of a bad run this season that favouritism will be justified.
Fans on the media will be howling for his departure & telling him how he should have been setting out his team selections. There's some awful pish spouted there too by the way, Peps by the dozen.
Just be prepared for a rocky road & don't go overboard when things get tough.
It's going to be a season like no other.
 

Yip as UAE and SL have said above, some of our fans are like coiled spring, waiting for that bad result.

Some as desperate to be proven correct in their eyes.

I have said on many a thread, the team he inherited was one of the worst we have ever assembled and the most expensive.  That was lost on some but not by the majority I feel.

He hasn't got everything right, I am not as impressed by some with the new signings however overall I am happy with the club at present. 

We are getting more things right than wrong.and it's been a few years since we could say that.

Might be decent enough at recruitment but as an actualy coach and tactical manager never going to be good enough IMO

dufc2019 wrote:

Might be decent enough at recruitment but as an actualy coach and tactical manager never going to be good enough IMO

 
He done a number on St Mirren just there, imo

CCX2 2010 wrote:

dufc2019 wrote:

Might be decent enough at recruitment but as an actualy coach and tactical manager never going to be good enough IMO

 
Out of interest,  who would be good enough that would be within our budget?

And also who has impressed you with their tactical nous?

 
Something I learned from appointing Courts - a man with absolutely no experience or credentials to think he should have been appointed at an SPL club - was that every managerial appointment is a complete role of the dice and that who the fans might think they want is rarely the best person for the job.

Also, if the various forums are anything to go by and are representative of the clubs support, there is rarely agreement on the best candidate. I remember reading about how Shite Mcinnes is a few years ago, while on Mad, there is a long thread  about us appointing the Airdrie manager with many posters feeling we should sack Goodwin and gamble on a guy who’s whole principle is what I hated about Goodwin most of last year - boring, ineffective  possession football where our 2 defenders keep the ball all game and nothing happens.