Nothing weird about it, Watters isn't any good either but given a chance in the box he'll score even though he's a very limited player.

Shedtastic wrote:

Nothing weird about it, Watters isn't any good either but given a chance in the box he'll score even though he's a very limited player.

He doesn't even get in goal scoring positions though. I hear a lot of talk about Watters not getting service, but watch him closely and you'll see a player who positionally is very poor. Never makes runs or tries to peel off his marker. Never gives Strain/Ferry or whoever an option, so they invariably just hit an aimless ball into an area of the opposition box.

Moller was the same.

I'm not saying Stirton is ready btw. I think most would acknowledge that he could benefit from another loan.

But i also think we'd be better blooding him now and giving him game time, because Watters is clearly off in May. He doesn't even play like he wants to be here.

Stirton does. 


 

Shedtastic wrote:

Stirton just isn't that good, I honestly don't see what people are seeing in his game that is a positive at this level, the lad HAS to go out on loan for a season, preferably to the Championship, and see how he does.

 
Should’ve been out on loan at the start of the season to Airdrie. We should’ve had 3 capable strikers. We ended up having 0 capable.

Tek wrote:

I listened to the Dode Fox podcast and big Paul made a great point about Owen Stirton (regarding the Spartans game).

Said that Goodwin kept calling him to the dug-out and giving him advice. Then saying he looked scared to shoot at times. I think our attacking players are too busy thinking they can't lose possession when we are in the lead, rather than just have free will and play how they want too, naturally.

There was one moment right at the death where Stirton actually turned his back to goal and looked to pass it back rather than shoot.

That isn't natural for a player, any player, particularly a young player. 

Ask yourself why so many attacking players are regressing. It's not a coincidence.

 

 
I posted the question a couple of weeks ago, name me one player this (coach) manager has improved? There were no takers.

The job of the coach is to create a team which works as a cohesive unit.
Where the players fit into their roles in the chosen system and blend well with other players. Where younger players are developed and mature players are nurtured and improve with coaching.
That has an identifiable style (whether that be ultra aggressive ugly St Mirren, functional yet effective Falkirk or fluid Motherwell)
That has a strong mentality and team spirit.
That can turn domination eg 1-0 leads into victories.
That can compete with opponents for a fair share of possession and know how to transform possession into goals.

......Not the only criteria for a coach, but how many boxes are currently getting ticked?

There are examples all over Britain and Ireland of coaches who have ticked most of these boxes at their clubs.
We should understand the risks of change but also understand the potential for improvement and the risk of not changing.

Slotbadger wrote:

RogerTheAlien wrote:

Shedtastic wrote:

Stirton just isn't that good, I honestly don't see what people are seeing in his game that is a positive at this level, the lad HAS to go out on loan for a season, preferably to the Championship, and see how he does.

 
Should’ve been out on loan at the start of the season to Airdrie. We should’ve had 3 capable strikers. We ended up having 0 capable.

 
This is not a real opinion because Stirton has never been given a run of games (like 10 starts in a row) to show if he is ready or not. From what I have seen in his limited cameos he has energy, is positive, brings other players into the game and could be good if given a chance. Instead we have been given 2 seasons of utter dross up front given game time ahead of him.

I think posters on the United forums have not moved with the times. Clubs like Barcelona are playing 16/17 year olds. Our rivals across the league at clubs like Motherwell, aberdeen, hibs, and many of the others keep playing young players and making lots of money.

Our manager has openly commented that he does not think Scottish players are value for money and has, over his time at United, consistently failed to give our young guys a proper chance. As TEK mentioned, I can’t remember any young Scottish players he has improved. maybe Graham.

I can’t think of many foreign players he has signed that have been value for money either. Most of the signings this year may have been cheaper, but we can see why.

 
I would’ve loved to see the big man get a run of starts but preferably would’ve like to have seen a decent striker lead the line and Stirton to appear from the bench and learn his trade.

With regard to other Scottish clubs playing young players and making good cash profit, it does my head in. Lennon Miller, Calvin Ramsey, Josh Doig, Aaron Hickey, Ryan Porteous, David Turnbull, Ali McCann and Scott McKenna just to name a few are all Scottish & come through the youth ranks who went on for big bucks. We sing to the high heavens about our youth academy but it constantly brings up nothing. When it brings someone of note up, they get sold for 250K and the club blame the parents and riches of the leagues down south. We haven’t brought anyone of note up that’s near the quality of Luke Graham in years. Shameful.

Yeah. Agree with both of you. Ideally Stirton playing 30 mins off the bench most games. But reality is VDS, Watters and Moller have all played a lot of games ahead of him and stifled his progress. I personally think, from the limited times I have seen him play, that Stirton already offers a lot more than any of those 3 players and might keep getting better. Obviously Jim is basing this on his opinion, but I think he is wrong in above example.

Tek wrote:

redford_must_score wrote:

 
But there's also a poster who says back 3 isn't a problem and there's a player in Watters?

Also weird.

I'm kinda with Finn on the first point. 

I'm not sure the formation is the main problem.

I think mentality is. Unfortunately it's hard to make players 'winners', that has to come from within. 
 

Just to be clear, I also think Goodwin should be trying alternative formations given the one he is using has us looking at the bottom half, but it is too easy to blame a formation that has had us in the position to win games.  Failures have generally been, individual errors (players), failing to play the system (players/coaching), sitting back/negativity (Goodwin),  failing to use subbies well (Goodwin - although he has been better this season) and generally inferior players (players/coaching).

There is a player in Watters, it's not a great one, and he seems to be the un-fittest/injury prone player we have (going some) but he should be ahead of Stirton and was ahead of Moller.  He links well with Sapsford and just needs to be told to so a Dalby in terms of positioning.

Finn Seemann wrote:

nicolalove wrote:

We shouldn't be relying on Stirton to be a stick-on striker for us. If the rest of the team was functioning as everyone expected/hoped at start of summer, we could be flinging Stirton on regularly for a fresh pair of legs and getting him minutes without arguing about whether he's better than our starting strikers.

However, you could look at likes of Falkirk's Barney Stewart who is same age and was playing in university leagues two years ago. It is possible for a young player with minimal professional experience to come in and do well.

Stewart is 3 years older - that is massive.  Stirton is still a boy.  Stewart isn't.

We need get the facts right and we are all putting far too much pressure on Owen.  He's not a world beating youngster who Barcelona are going to swoop for, but he can become a very good asset for us in a couple of years

 
Sensible post, refreshing.

Like standing in rocking horse shit lately 😋

Have we dropped our captain ...

An abomination of a starting XI.

Conway11 wrote:

An abomination of a starting XI.

 
Who would you be going with instead can I ask? Apart from formation i think thats the best we can hope for. Graham at fault for Killies goal so it's not unthinkable to drop him. Who else would you like to see start?

Conway11 wrote:

An abomination of a starting XI.

 
Utter nonsense. Nothing wrong with the 11 players selected.


It's just your confidence growing having a minter thread accepted and traffic on it.

redford_must_score wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

I should just add that I'm always happy to be wrong and will be delighted to be miles off the mark tonight. If we could string some wins together I'd be the first on here raving about our 3 at the back revolution, I'm fickle and dont care. Just want a winning team on the park

 
3 at the back can work fine if you have 3 midfielders in front of them but this looks like 343 again. ie Fatah Sapsford Trapanovski which will leave just 2 conventional midfielders.

 
Im Just utterly fed up of our shite defence tbh,and it's this constant sticking to his system when it's clearly not worked thats really rattling my bars. But,and it's a helluva but,if we could somehow win our next 4 games then I will let JG have a go on my missus 🤣

Last edited by Arabdownsouth (Today 7:17 pm)