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I remember being at the St Mirren game where we lost 2-0 and thinking the reaction from fans was a bit mad. One guy threw his scarf on the pitch, while someone else was hanging off an ad board to hiss and spit at Dave Richards. The general consensus was that Goodwin didn't have a clue and the players didn't give a shit. It was a honking performance, but I thought the tantrum from some folk in the support was a wee bit premature. I can't see myself hissing and spitting at anyone, but I can understand where they're coming from now.
I don't think we should kick Goodwin out tomorrow. If we did, I think I would be more worried about the nick of whoever replaces him. However, it seems quite clear that he has lost the dressing room. If his scathing assessment of the performance after Hibs doesn't provoke a reaction, where does he go from there? I'm not against him trying to light a fire under the team's arse, but you want the team to be able to go out and respond immediately to something like that instead of being hit with match postponements.
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BMT wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument here but what I will say after watching some of the Dundee v Celtic game today then the highlights on Sportscene is that we are so far behind the performance that the wee team put in today that I’m genuinely starting to worry.
When you look back to the start of the season we had I thought I can’t wait to see this team when they have gelled but it’s just not happening.
The stats’s don’t lie it’s just not good enough and the worst thing is I can’t see it getting any better.
Yeah this for me.
Any normal transfer season you'd hope to bring in 5 good anes and a couple of gems.
This season the reverse including critically the magnetic ongoing attraction for complete Diddy goalies who keep racking up the points for the opposition.
Key points:
1/ Obvious - he must win next 3 or 4
2/ Has he lost the dressing room, as of right now looks like he has.
3/ Businessmen do not like change - Ogren will be slow to act.
4/ How long does it take to get a suitable replacement in ? With all the angst that entails. (Is there even a suitable replacement ? )
So yeah for me the guillotine's being ratcheted up. Chop depends on Point 1/
( What I wouldn't give for Walton, Holt, Gallacher and Docherty back)
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Tangentially related to this discussion, I see our only options for January 'goal of the month' are the two goals against Ayr United ...
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I was happy when he was awarded a rolling 1 year contract. However, now I'm done with Goodwin.
His insistence with a back 3 and to try and defend a 1-0 lead instead of pushing for another goal is killing us. The worst part is he either clearly doesn't see this is the issue or he doesn't know how to change it.
We defend reasonably well when we are pushing the game in the first half and at the start of the second half, but once we get our noses in front, its squeaky bum time.
Get him out before the end of the season and someone else in ASAP to try and stop the rot.
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The minute we scored on Saturday, he shouted the keeper over and was giving him instructions.
What else could it have been except ‘slow this down, 1-0 will do us’ etc?
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Last season I was happy with the results but really unhappy with most of our performances. The way we play football is important to me and many games were a difficult watch despite the result.
In view of that, and the fact it was a transitional season, another new team, I backed the manager.
This season we've been mostly terrible to watch but with the added disappointment of poor results.
We don't seem able to keep the ball and play football. We don't look coached.
Our main tactic seems to be to get the ball wide for a cross into the box.
I find myself getting increasingly angry watching us.
There have been exceptions of course but few and far between.
My patience with his 343 formation, terrible tactics and lack of coaching ability have run out.
I would say that mid table mediocrity and winning our fair share of derbies is normally acceptable for second season up syndrome but mid table mediocrity and getting regularly beaten by our neighbours is something I will never accept.
As a minimum he has to keep us away from the fight at the bottom and win the next derby.
I detect a weariness buried in Goodwin's voice, if he gets an offer away from the club, closer to home and family he might well take it, next St Mirren manager maybe. It's definitely more likely than Mark Ogren firing him.
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He only takes a small part of the blame for relegation in 2023.
2023/24- we were excellent overall in the championship and that was a job well done but so it should’ve been especially on our budget.
2024/25- we were also excellent finishing 4th and getting in to Europe. He overachieved and it was some job he did.
2025/26- currently 7th and 10pts behind Falkirk in 6th. Scottish cup is the only thing currently that in many eyes can save him.
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Think we’d have to get a lot worse before Ogren would even consider sacking him unfortunately.
Then there’s the question of who replaces him.
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2024/2025
We were very lucky our early season form was good nothing else
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kdyteejay wrote:
Think we’d have to get a lot worse before Ogren would even consider sacking him unfortunately.
Then there’s the question of who replaces him.
Ultimately it will always be down to Ogren. Before we even talk about who would replace Goodwin, we need to ask the question, who does the recruiting?
It’s a painful watch at the moment because you are watching disillusioned players going through the motions who have no faith in the system (assuming one exists) nor in the manager.
Ogren is by nature reactive.
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I think a change is needed, but at this stage of the season, it'll be pointless, unless we make the final and the usual tactics cost us.
But across the fanbase it's seems to be completely black and white, some won't give any credit to Goodwin for the championship season and last season, but are giving him all the blame now, whereas some who can see the job he did, are a bit blind to how it's panning out now.
Some of us can see all points and it's just a big wet fart.
Raith put up a really good battle, we won the league comfortably, but they made us work, all the stats of United were good, Raith's best season in ages skewed our thinking.
Re least season, over 90 minutes you can maybe undeservedly nick a point, steal a win, get the benefit of a dodgy call, over a season you finish exactly where you deserve to.
Goodwin played a part in the relegation, but to overly blame him ignores those shitebags who threw 2 managers under the bus, had us 5 safe of bottom with 5 to play, then lost the lot.
If as the some rumours suggest our budget isn't what it should be, or his hand is tied re signings, then if it were me, I'd walk away, not wait until things get worse and I end up sacked.
But one thing I think we can maybe all agree on, Goodwin's style of play, tactics, thinking, is that of a team who's only objective is to survive, never seeking to achieve something, it's not great to watch, and usually that catches up with you.
I'd rather be watching the sort of football we played v Rapid at home for the most part and drawing 2-2 or losing 3-2 than the safe shite we play losing 3-2 at the death to Hibs, or dropping points on Saturday (Albeit, bar the last 10 I thought we played decently ok for most of the game)
Perhaps behind the scenes there's been discussions, decisions made, we were rumoured to have had a few more pre-contracts in the door, maybe they're on hold as we don't know who'll be in charge, there's a disconnect between the owners, the club, the fans, it would be nice to hear some thoughts on where we are or what the plans are going forward.
And as shite and it seems right now, were we to win our 2 games in hand, we'd be 4 points behind 6th with 5 to play, that's the optimist in me speaking though, a team that's won 6 from 26 doesn't go on that sort of run, but it really should be 2 points with 5 to play, in this league you can't afford to miss a penalty or choose not to defend an injury time cross into the box.
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BMT wrote:
2024/2025
We were very lucky our early season form was good nothing else
Sam Dalby and his 15 goals saved us. We’d be 5th or 6th if we had him currently.
We signed Max Watters as his replacement and it’s done us right in.
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When I first saw Dalby at Motherwell in the cup I thought he was a donkey.
He then just happened to concentrate on the things he was good at and it worked well. In this league you don't have to be a world beater. The problem with Watters is that he has no self-belief. He's not Dalby in the sense of keep him in the middle and lob crosses at him, but I do think there is a player there.
He needs to stick generally between the posts and believe he is the focal point of the team. He does too much work in areas that are ineffective as a striker.
Maybe that is it - we need a better striker coach.
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Finn Seemann wrote:
Maybe that is it - we need a better striker coach.
I've felt this for ages. We could really do with a coach for the Strikers.
No idea what John Robertson (ex-Hearts) is up to these days, but apparently he was an excellent Striking coach (as well as an excellent Striker himself, of course).
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I'm sure Robertson is at Ross County just now.