As I said earlier, if we get Campbell, we 100% have the best midfield options outside the old firm,  that’s along with the best defence outside the old firm and the league’s top scorer up front. That’s some going considering where we were at this point 2 years ago. Gallagher, Holt, Graham, Docherty, Holt, Sibbald, Walton, Campbell, Moult, Dalby, even Babunski, that’s a hell of a lot of leaders to have in a squad. Compare that to some of the gutless losers we had in that relegation team. Goodwin’s giving an absolute masterclass in squad building.

Always_United wrote:

JerryDungle wrote:

Allan Campbell apparently signing from Luton.

That’s a real show of ambition to try and secure 3rd place.

Once we get Docherty (I know), and Sibbald fit, that’s some headache to choose from. Vicko, Luca, Docherty, Sibbald and now Campbell. With Babunski and Fiorini capable of playing in there too.

That’s the best midfield options in the league (outside the old firm) by a considerable distance.

 
You forgot Odada.

 
Wish I could

Tangy wrote:

Gutted the young lad is gone.

I only ever saw him get 45 minutes at brechin but I want to see our young talent stay with the club and make a name for themselves.

Tbh I don't blame united entirely here. They get players who's heads are turned by the cash and risk letting them go for free....the system though is completely broken. (Or scottish football is compared to our neighbours.)

The compensation for players is a pittance. The costs associated with taking them from young players to a level where championship teams want them is hugely high. Figure also all the players who fall by the wayside need to be covered too.

For norwich, there's almost 0 risk to taking our best prospects.

It almost gets to the point of why should united and other clubs in a similar position spend years of time and 100s of thousands to see them walk. Away.

As an aside it might be slightly more palatable if the system was scalable and we could look at teams in the lower scottish leagues but it's simply not there

 
Must admit I tend to be supportive of the club here.
The Academy has a very big operating cost and surely has to be paid for. It's not there just to provide players to give us enjoyment when we see them in the first team. It can't be just that. When it does that's great and we're seeing that with Ross Graham Kai Fotheringham and Miller Thomson.  Or are we........ none of them nailing first team starts at the moment. (Think all 3 are Academy graduates?)

As an aside it's worth noting that the fees we received for Domeracki Forbes  and McLeod when put together is probably pretty much what Dundee might get for their best player who is likely going out in this window.

So the mission for the Academy needs to be
1 Nurture talent to be sold on to pay for the structure and future income from add ons
2 Nurture talent to be part of the first team squad
3 Uncover a diamond that ultimately gets sold for big money after breaking into the side.

I have no doubt that Academy leadership has fluctuated in quality  since Stevie Campbell was in charge, I guess we have to trust that the current guys, Capuano Cairney Goodwin have the right Academy management and coaches in place.

My guess is that overall we're getting it about right.

Tangy wrote:

I'm not against united and the academy tbh. I think the system is broken and allows for players to be picked up for pennies. Ie has the amount of compensation due gone up over the years, in line with inflation? Is there any measures being put in place to protect clubs like united who put a lot more into youth than other clubs in our league? If only the elite clubs develop players, there won't be a league. The league. The clubs and the fans need good young players coming through

The club are in a tough spot...don't want to lose players of high quality (I'd hope) but do they risk them walking away for free?

 
Apart from the disastrous handling of Lewis Neilson it seems the club are acting correctly to secure the signatures of promising youngsters. Some accounts suggest that we had stiff competition to get Jamie Forrest signed up, reckoned to be a really top prospect, but he signed with us. Unfortunately only til 2027 but no doubt if his progression continues we'll be quick to offer an extension.

I'm not up to date with how the compensation structure works regarding fees but I suspect you're right that they haven't kept pace with player transfer fees generally at senior level.
The protection in place is that clubs that develop a player will get compensated for that work, the problem seems to be that the compensation is too low.

JerryDungle wrote:

Fwiw, if Docherty can keep himself fit between now and the end of the season, I’d be of a Ming to keep him as a rotation/backup option to Campbell. When he is fit, he’s one of the best midfielders in the league, and it might suit him at his age and with his injury issues to be a squad player.

Folk will scoff at this, but Doc is a fucking good player, a leader and someone who’s clearly well liked by his teammates. Doubt he costs us a fortune either.

 
I agree JD, fans including myself are very frustrated because he more often than not unavailable for selection.

Like you say he's a super player when fit, the fact he hasn't played a lot may frighten teams off.

If we can secure Campbell I would be willing to bet that Docherty will only be used as a sub when he's availablefor selection.

Don't get me wrong Docherty improves us and Luca/Vicko have missed his presence but a manager needs consistency from players and that includes consistency of availability.
I think Docherty will be released in the summer whether Campbell signs or not.

I'm wondering if we're looking at the deal for Campbell as an initial loan with a permanent option. Which would make sense given the chase for the potential riches that 3rd would deliver if one of the Glasgow 2 win the Cup.

Bring it on.

Stillliving wrote:

JerryDungle wrote:

Fwiw, if Docherty can keep himself fit between now and the end of the season, I’d be of a mind to keep him as a rotation/backup option to Campbell. When he is fit, he’s one of the best midfielders in the league, and it might suit him at his age and with his injury issues to be a squad player. Campbell being here takes the pressure off him having to rush back from injuries.

Folk will scoff at this, but Doc is a fucking good player, a leader and someone who’s clearly well liked by his teammates. Doubt he costs us a fortune either.

 
Docherty is a good player , however until I see Campbell with the scarf above his head how can anybody be back up to someone else's player.

 
He’s our player now.

https://www.charltonafc.com/news/allan-campbell-joins-dundee-united

CCX2 2010 wrote:

That's the one we have been waiting for.

Fit and raring to go he said, straight into the starting 11 for me.

 
Agreed. This is a real boost and will give the other players just a bit of extra motivation.

Sounds like a clever bit of business too, no loan just a negotiation at the end of the season.

Always_United wrote:

SuperMario wrote:

Permanent transfer is very good business

 
Permanent transfer til the end of the season is to all intents and purposes identical to a loan til the end of the season.

 
It's not because the parent club have no say in the player's future. Can't be recalled. Player now a free agent more like.

I suppose where United have an advantage is if he does well and he gets settled he might not fancy another club and the hassle with moving.

Like everyone else though his Mrs and the amount of money we can throw his way will dictate.

But for me, he is exactly the type of player that will fit in well at Tannadice.

We always appreciate effort and hard graft, it the reason Watt, Mulgrew and Edwards got a  hard time and last season despite being limited in footballing ability Tilson (remember him) got some leeway.

redford_must_score wrote:

CCX2 2010 wrote:

I suppose where United have an advantage is if he does well and he gets settled he might not fancy another club and the hassle with moving.

Like everyone else though his Mrs and the amount of money we can throw his way will dictate.

But for me, he is exactly the type of player that will fit in well at Tannadice.

We always appreciate effort and hard graft, it the reason Watt, Mulgrew and Edwards got a  hard time and last season despite being limited in footballing ability Tilson (remember him) got some leeway.

 
Either way, Luca and Vicko must be thinking thank fuck for that.

Where does Fiorini fit into all this? Is he more of a 10? Not seen anything of him other than his name on a Scotland U21 teamsheet so I have no clue.

 
Wouldn’t mind seeing Luca onto the bench to get a wee break, that’ll bolster the backup too. Fiorini will be something different from the bench, a bit like Dave but with more dig hopefully.

redford_must_score wrote:

Where does Fiorini fit into all this? Is he more of a 10? Not seen anything of him other than his name on a Scotland U21 teamsheet so I have no clue.

Must admit that crossed my mind too.

A lot of Luton fans saying Campbell's best position was No.10, and if Babunski is still here that is also his best position.

I'm wondering why we needed Fiorini, but i'm not complaining if he ends up good.