Conway11 wrote:

redford_must_score wrote:

Conway11 wrote:

Moving players on who our out of contract - I would tell the following that they are not getting a new deal

Gallagher 
Moult
Holt
Docherty
Newman
Middleton

Would give Babunski another year - he would be great with a new manager in a proper system, played in his ideal position. 

The ones above are not good enough if we really do want to be a top 5 side. 

Would go for Stuart Findlay and Danny Armstrong (both OOC at Killie in the summer) to replace Gallagher and Middleton



 

 
Had to read that twice to check it wasn't a wind up.
New manager? Seriously?
Gallagher and Holt have been immense and one of the reasons we'vebeen so successful.
Agree we're not seeing the best of Babunski though and I agree why.
But results are everything and right now we are getting them.

Yes - we have a very limited way of playing that will catch up with us eventually, it is going great just now but IT WILL fizzle out. Recruitment in January is key, Gallagher is 33, Kevin Holt is 31 - we need to have someone waiting in the wings with top level experience to take us that extra step forward. I believe Cleal-Harding will come good and think he may dislodge Holt soon.

Babunski is being hung out to dry in this system - he is the most creative player at the club and is being shunted out from this position

JR is 34 but would be perfect foil for Dalby - would be reminiscent of a Daly-Goodwillie/Russell partnership, a short term spell while Stirton gets up to scratch would be ideal.  
 

Not sure I would agree with this.  We've solidified from the back with the 3 CHs (even with Graham missing) and wing backs approach.  Granted we'll need to find two longer term CHs to play alongside Graham as Gallagher and Holt are clearly at the wrong end if their careers.  However, having never been a particular fan of either, I have to concede that both are playing beyond themselves at the moment.  We therefore shouldn't be telling guys they're goners until we know we can replace them.

We've managed to slot Stephenson and Vicko into the Sibbald and Docherty holes.  That system is currently serving us well and allows Babunski a little bit of freedom (which to be fair he hasn't really excelled himself in) to express himself, but if the wing backs aren't pinned back (as they haven't been for a whole game yet) that doesn't matter quite as much.

Up front we are missing a bit of speed and that has to be the focus for the January window.  JR is not that man.  We need to see a bit more of the attacking play from the derby and a bit less route one (Dalby doesn't hold it up that well), but I can't say that I don't expect us to score in any game.  I do.  That is light years ahead of where we were with Tony Watt as first choice or option.  

I am generally fairly pessimistic when it comes to United, but I see no reason why things must fizzle out.  We've played everyone (bar Celtic) and bar a couple of halves against Aberdeen and Rangers and a 20 minute spell against Killie nobody has overrun us and even then (bar Killie) those spells haven't conceded too many goals.  We've also scored in most games (quite often more than one).  I suspect we'll get a doing from Celtic, but I think incremental changes are called for rather than wholesale changes.  We are also beginning to see Goodwin using the bench appropriately even with quite a few players still on the sick list.  

Goodwin has proved my suspicions about his abilities wrong this season.  As have the players.  We are playing as a team and they are meeting the challenges as they come.  Two big games v Killie and Motherwell coming up.  Taking 4 or more of the 6 points would be immense.  We can then shore up or have a go v Celtic - I don't mind.

I do like Findlay at Killie (although seems to have his inury issues this season). Armstrong would also make a bit of sense.

Last edited by Finn Seemann (04/12/2024 1:58 pm)

Cleall-Harding most likely to be next season's replacement for Adegboyega.
We still have Graham to come back in plus Gallagher and Holt. Likelihood next summer we'll deffo sign another centre half. The budget is not unlimited. Succession planning is all well and good if you've got the money. I reckon we're in more of a hand-to mouth situation and any January signings will be on a needs must basis.

Our top priority is surely a striker with pace and mobility. This, imho is the missing link in that team.

Second priority is a (young) back-up left back for when a) Ferry gets suspended (which will happen in the next month I reckon) or b) Gets injured or c) Gets signed by an English club, simply because we've got no direct replacement in the squad.
 

Last edited by lifesanocean (04/12/2024 5:04 pm)

Adaptable is the key. We have an adaptable squad. Even upfront. Goals come from all corners (incl corners).
I wouldn't like us to be getting in a forward just for the sake of it. Free goalscoring ones are like hens' teeth anyway. Even Simon's goals have dried up.
Work away with Moult, Dalby & Van der Sande & Stirton off the bench.
 

Conway11 wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Conway11 wrote:

Yes - we have a very limited way of playing that will catch up with us eventually, it is going great just now but IT WILL fizzle out. Recruitment in January is key, Gallagher is 33, Kevin Holt is 31 - we need to have someone waiting in the wings with top level experience to take us that extra step forward. I believe Cleal-Harding will come good and think he may dislodge Holt soon.

Babunski is being hung out to dry in this system - he is the most creative player at the club and is being shunted out from this position

JR is 34 but would be perfect foil for Dalby - would be reminiscent of a Daly-Goodwillie/Russell partnership, a short term spell while Stirton gets up to scratch would be ideal.  
 

Not sure I would agree with this.  We've solidified from the back with the 3 CHs (even with Graham missing) and wing backs approach.  Granted we'll need to find two longer term CHs to play alongside Graham as Gallagher and Holt are clearly at the wrong end if their careers.  However, having never been a particular fan of either, I have to concede that both are playing beyond themselves at the moment.  We therefore shouldn't be telling guys they're goners until we know we can replace them.

We've managed to slot Stephenson and Vicko into the Sibbald and Docherty holes.  That system is currently serving us well and allows Babunski a little bit of freedom (which to be fair he hasn't really excelled himself in) to express himself, but if the wing backs aren't pinned back (as they haven't been for a whole game yet) that doesn't matter quite as much.

Up front we are missing a bit of speed and that has to be the focus for the January window.  JR is not that man.  We need to see a bit more of the attacking play from the derby and a bit less route one (Dalby doesn't hold it up that well), but I can't say that I don't expect us to score in any game.  I do.  That is light years ahead of where we were with Tony Watt as first choice or option.  

I am generally fairly pessimistic when it comes to United, but I see no reason why things must fizzle out.  We've played everyone (bar Celtic) and bar a couple of halves against Aberdeen and Rangers and a 20 minute spell against Killie nobody has overrun us and even then (bar Killie) those spells haven't conceded too many goals.  We've also scored in most games (quite often more than one).  I suspect we'll get a doing from Celtic, but I think incremental changes are called for rather than wholesale changes.  We are also beginning to see Goodwin using the bench appropriately even with quite a few players still on the sick list.  

Goodwin has proved my suspicions about his abilities wrong this season.  As have the players.  We are playing as a team and they are meeting the challenges as they come.  Two big games v Killie and Motherwell coming up.  Taking 4 or more of the 6 points would be immense.  We can then shore up or have a go v Celtic - I don't mind.

I do like Findlay at Killie (although seems to have his inury issues this season). Armstrong would also make a bit of sense.

I see where you’re coming from, but I have to push back on a few of your points. Yes, the 3 CH system with wing-backs is working well for now, and I agree that Gallagher and Holt have been playing beyond expectations.

However, that is precisely why planning for their eventual decline—or injury—is so important. We’ve seen how quickly players in these positions can fall off, especially in a physically demanding setup like ours. Waiting until they’re no longer performing isn’t good enough. Recruitment in January is key to ensuring we don’t lose the momentum we’ve built this season.

You mention we shouldn’t be telling guys they’re "goners" until replacements are lined up, but I’m not advocating for binning them mid-season. Gallagher and Holt deserve credit for their performances, but we need to find top-level experience that can slot in when they can’t keep up. Depth and forward-thinking recruitment are non-negotiable if we want to sustain success.

On Babunski, you say he’s been given freedom, but I strongly disagree. This system is stifling him. He’s our most creative player, yet he’s being played in a way that doesn’t maximize his abilities. Yes, the wing-backs have done well so far, but what happens when they’re pinned back by better opposition or injuries? Babunski’s flair and vision should be the heartbeat of our attacking play, not a secondary option reliant on a system that prioritizes width over creativity.

As for the attack, I agree that speed is the glaring issue. But you dismiss JR too quickly. No, he’s not a long-term solution at 34, but his experience and ability to complement Dalby could be invaluable in the short term. It’s not just about pace; it’s about having a player who can make the runs and open space for others, which JR could do while Stirton continues to develop. It’s a short-term solution, yes, but one that makes a lot of sense given where we are now.

I’m glad to hear you’re optimistic about the team, but saying there’s no reason why things must fizzle out feels naive. We’re not invincible. Injuries, fatigue, and opposition figuring us out are all very real threats. You’ve pointed out a few tough spells against Aberdeen, Rangers, and Killie—and that’s only going to happen more often as teams adapt. Without speed up front and creativity from midfield, we risk becoming predictable and easier to nullify.I respect what Goodwin has done, and he’s definitely surprised a lot of people, but incremental changes alone won’t be enough if we’re serious about pushing on.

Celtic will be a reality check for where we really stand, but these next two games against Killie and Motherwell are where we must show we can adapt and take the next step forward. Taking 4+ points would be fantastic, but if we don’t address the areas where we’re already showing cracks, even that won’t matter in the long run.

We need clear plans to address the aging defense, lack of pace up front, and underutilized creativity in midfield. Without these, the solid foundation we’ve built could collapse sooner than you think.
 

Suspect we are not actually that far apart here.  I'm all for proactive recruitment, I'm just not sure we'll succeed in getting to many in in January.  I suspect we may go down the pre-contract route but that means replacements for the aging stars are not going to be in the building until the summer.

I like Babunski, but I'm not convinced that he has the engine to compliment his undoubted talent.  I am not sure that we will ever see his potential because he's actually not fit enough for this league.  So I stand by my view and unfortunately I think he'll also be away in the summer.

I'd be happy enough with JR coming in short term (and understand that is not out of the question) but still think we need pace first. Stirton is probably a couple of seasons off being a regular so we need someone else to tide us over and no guarantees Stirton makes it.

I don't agree on your view of big push v incremental changes.  Realistically the best we can do in the league is 3rd and we're currently 4th.  Now if some of the club's suitors end up bolstering the war chest, that becomes a different matter, but until someone has greased the Ogren palm there isn't going to be a big push.  That doesn't mean the team's progress must fizzle out.  Granted, I agree that we are probably in an over-inflated position but I just don't see enough clubs figuring us out to that extent and, in any case, I think Jim is still learning as he goes too.

But I actually don't wildly disagree with you - planning and proactivity is a must and I'm reasonably confident that is what is happening - just not with new bodies (bar a couple) in January.
 

Tangy wrote:

United don't usually do big business in January- they always seem to say it's a horrible window to get quality into the squad - so doubt we will do too much.

Big handsome has his way of playing and I'm pretty sure we are adequately covered in most positions. For instance, ferry out, holt goes in and graham comes in at cb.

If I was playing football manager, I'd want more cover but united are operating on a budget build on winning the championship. They MIGHT widen the budget after our good start but it's not going to be massive, surely.

As to some of the previous points, squad building is an ongoing thing. I don't think a team is ever 'built' and every year, players will come in and go out.

Spot on

Pacey striker.
Physios double time on Sibbald.

.... Anyone hear how far away he is ?

Finn Seemann wrote:

United Arab Emarite wrote:

Adaptable is the key. We have an adaptable squad. Even upfront. Goals come from all corners (incl corners).
I wouldn't like us to be getting in a forward just for the sake of it. Free goalscoring ones are like hens' teeth anyway. Even Simon's goals have dried up.
Work away with Moult, Dalby & Van der Sande & Stirton off the bench.
 

Man City have a big lad that might fancy a run in our league to refind his touch.  

 
Ugly bastard though

Conway11 wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Conway11 wrote:

I see where you’re coming from, but I have to push back on a few of your points. Yes, the 3 CH system with wing-backs is working well for now, and I agree that Gallagher and Holt have been playing beyond expectations.

However, that is precisely why planning for their eventual decline—or injury—is so important. We’ve seen how quickly players in these positions can fall off, especially in a physically demanding setup like ours. Waiting until they’re no longer performing isn’t good enough. Recruitment in January is key to ensuring we don’t lose the momentum we’ve built this season.

You mention we shouldn’t be telling guys they’re "goners" until replacements are lined up, but I’m not advocating for binning them mid-season. Gallagher and Holt deserve credit for their performances, but we need to find top-level experience that can slot in when they can’t keep up. Depth and forward-thinking recruitment are non-negotiable if we want to sustain success.

On Babunski, you say he’s been given freedom, but I strongly disagree. This system is stifling him. He’s our most creative player, yet he’s being played in a way that doesn’t maximize his abilities. Yes, the wing-backs have done well so far, but what happens when they’re pinned back by better opposition or injuries? Babunski’s flair and vision should be the heartbeat of our attacking play, not a secondary option reliant on a system that prioritizes width over creativity.

As for the attack, I agree that speed is the glaring issue. But you dismiss JR too quickly. No, he’s not a long-term solution at 34, but his experience and ability to complement Dalby could be invaluable in the short term. It’s not just about pace; it’s about having a player who can make the runs and open space for others, which JR could do while Stirton continues to develop. It’s a short-term solution, yes, but one that makes a lot of sense given where we are now.

I’m glad to hear you’re optimistic about the team, but saying there’s no reason why things must fizzle out feels naive. We’re not invincible. Injuries, fatigue, and opposition figuring us out are all very real threats. You’ve pointed out a few tough spells against Aberdeen, Rangers, and Killie—and that’s only going to happen more often as teams adapt. Without speed up front and creativity from midfield, we risk becoming predictable and easier to nullify.I respect what Goodwin has done, and he’s definitely surprised a lot of people, but incremental changes alone won’t be enough if we’re serious about pushing on.

Celtic will be a reality check for where we really stand, but these next two games against Killie and Motherwell are where we must show we can adapt and take the next step forward. Taking 4+ points would be fantastic, but if we don’t address the areas where we’re already showing cracks, even that won’t matter in the long run.

We need clear plans to address the aging defense, lack of pace up front, and underutilized creativity in midfield. Without these, the solid foundation we’ve built could collapse sooner than you think.
 

Suspect we are not actually that far apart here.  I'm all for proactive recruitment, I'm just not sure we'll succeed in getting to many in in January.  I suspect we may go down the pre-contract route but that means replacements for the aging stars are not going to be in the building until the summer.

I like Babunski, but I'm not convinced that he has the engine to compliment his undoubted talent.  I am not sure that we will ever see his potential because he's actually not fit enough for this league.  So I stand by my view and unfortunately I think he'll also be away in the summer.

I'd be happy enough with JR coming in short term (and understand that is not out of the question) but still think we need pace first. Stirton is probably a couple of seasons off being a regular so we need someone else to tide us over and no guarantees Stirton makes it.

I don't agree on your view of big push v incremental changes.  Realistically the best we can do in the league is 3rd and we're currently 4th.  Now if some of the club's suitors end up bolstering the war chest, that becomes a different matter, but until someone has greased the Ogren palm there isn't going to be a big push.  That doesn't mean the team's progress must fizzle out.  Granted, I agree that we are probably in an over-inflated position but I just don't see enough clubs figuring us out to that extent and, in any case, I think Jim is still learning as he goes too.

But I actually don't wildly disagree with you - planning and proactivity is a must and I'm reasonably confident that is what is happening - just not with new bodies (bar a couple) in January.
 

Fair points, Finn, but I’m not sure waiting until the summer is wise. January doesn’t need to be a big overhaul, but just 1-2 key additions—especially in defense or midfield—could be the difference between 3rd and fading away. I for one cannot wait for Tony Watt to be off the books saving us £5k a week.

On Babunski, I get the concerns about his engine, but fitness is something we can improve. His creativity is something we lack elsewhere. If Goodwin can tweak the system to put him at the heart of our attacking play, we’d be much more dangerous.

Can't argue with that!

What players should we put out on loan in January?

I'd say Owen Stirton to a League Two or Lowland League side. Assuming of course we sign a new Striker (please God).

I also think Meshack Ubochioma might go on loan to a Championship or League One side. Hasn't played even one minute since his winner versus Hibs. If you're not getting game time after scoring a winner then the manager just ain't having you.

I'd even maybe send big Odada out on loan (later in the window), should Sibbald and Dochety return and stay fit (no laughing at the back regarding the latter).

Stillliving wrote:

For me the big miss in the team is a midfielder who can pass the ball. Vicko, Stephenson and Babunski or Sibbald are not that type of Player.
It's looking less and less likely that Docherty will play enough games.
Can we find a fit version of Docherty in the transfer market?

 
This for me also, I have said this all season.

Our biggest weakness by a distance is controlling a game of football in the middle of the pitch.

We would all love some back up for Ferry, possibly another striker but that's not our weak point, not by a long shot.

Like you say SL it looks very unlikely that Docherty will stay fit enough. A situation the manager MUST address first as a priority,  we need a leader in there, it ain't Babunski.

Hopefully Docherty manages to get some games in before then as I think he's a smashing player but we need him fit and available.

Morphman wrote:

It's not a real January window unless Safranko is rumoured!

Yes please 

RogerTheAlien wrote:

I wouldn’t mind young Stirton heading to someone like Arbroath who are 3rd in league 1 and pushing for promotion. Meshack could do with a few months at Hamilton or Dunfermline who are battling relegation in a tough league.

If someone wanted them i’d move on Kai Fotheringham and Ross Docherty. Don’t think Fotheringham is good enough and we don’t have time for players like Doch who’s fit every few games. Good player but a sick note.

 
I think the club might be aiming a bit higher for Stirton if he goes out. Championship? But if we don't sign another striker he's not going on loan.
Also I agree about Docherty's fitness/availability issues but I doubt he will go on loan with Craig Sibbald not due back until mid Jan at the earliest. But that could change if we sign a midfielder in the window.
BTW which coach is going to say thankyou we will take your frequently injured midfielder?? Not sure on that.