Macbonzo wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Tek wrote:

Fantastic post.

A lot of good points made there.

I too cannot stand this philosophy of 'play it out from the back' at all costs. Cost Scotland their losing goal against Northern Ireland tonight when a good old fashioned hoof up the park would have ensured no loss.

Only thing i think you are being a wee bit harsh on is Airdire and Rhys McCabe. Yes, they are a pass from the back team, but i have actually been very impressed with them at times this season. Think there's a wee bit more to them.

He's in under two seasons won promotion from League One, the Challenge Cup and i think they will be in the Play-Off's. 

His 'association' with Consilium is possibly as simple as they represent him as a player (he's still registered as a player on Airdrie's books).
 

In this country we have a massive issue about how the game is played.  I remember going to Barcelona with my son to an international tournament with some lower level Spanish Academy teams.  Technically they were far superior, but our boys got to the semi by more or less kicking them off the park as they tried to pass it around us.  When they met boys who were a little stronger and technically better there was no competition.  Couple of years later the best technical player in my son's team was dropped to the team and division below as he didn't fit the physical side of playing first division U14 football in Edinburgh (according to the 'coach' - who's Dad used to be a scout for Man U therefore knew everything...).  That boy has been at the Getafe academy for a couple of years and I believe has just been named in the Egypt U19 squad.  Yet his footballing talent was simply ignored at grassroots level in Scotland.

So I don't think the issue is that we shouldn't be playing pass around the back football, it's that our system is set up to produce players who can't do it.  Until grassroots football is sorted we'll continue to produce flawed players.  My wee Egyptian kid now plays right back.  He has infinitely more talent than Grimshaw and he went to the Man U academy - wonder who scouted him...

 
I recall something that Ian Cathro said: that you (the coach) learn more from a 10 year old than he learns from you. If you keep saying “don’t lose the ball” you instil a negative.

I think too many youngsters don’t fit the model (in terms of height and weight) and are discarded - Andy Robertson, Charlie Telfer and even Richard Gough, (who Rangers deemed lacked physical stature). What makes this even worse is that most of these youngsters don’t have a ‘b’ plan, hence they just play lower league or indeed junior football. If you contrast this with the Dutch system, football is only one career path, which you might pursue in conjunction with higher education, apprenticeship, linguistics etc. In other words you will find your level of football at that particular point in time.

In Scotland, going back to Andy Roxburgh it strikes me that you have a lot of “fly men” involved in coaching, who seem to make lucrative careers out of football coaching. That said, I’m probably biased, since 2019, due to the bunch of chancers feasting on the underbelly of our great club.

I went to an Andy Roxburgh coaching week in Largs when I was a kid.  He brought in guys like Andy Ritchie (on how to strike the ball) and Roy Aitken (on captaining the team).  To be fair it was about making money, but the coaching was excellent.  That was probably 1984 - I don't think the actual coaching has moved on much.

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:

.... What !!???

- You put the ball in the back of the net.

But to go back to United's "style"  ...ffs !
We are in Scottish diddy division, we're no the team of 95/96 or 1983/84.
1984 was 40 years ago. History. We sound like Dees banging on about 1963 or England 1966.

So forget all the other shit and concentrate on quickly accurately getting the ball up the park into opposing penalty boxes and into the net. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with playing the way you're facing and backwards, nothing wrong with possesion so long as it's quick, accurate and attacking. By the same token, nothing wrong with the odd hoof up the park , or better still a precision long ball - gives the opposition something different to think about. Whereas modern football coaches keep the ball on the deck - fair enough, but not to the exclusion of all else.

We cannot afford to let opposition teams come to Tannadice put 10 men behind the ba and watch us fanny around. We either score first half or let paying fans see our team working their bollocks off trying - if we don't we give the opposition an extra man.

"Style"  ... ffs get a grip !

100% this.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/23/artificial-intelligence-football-tactics-malmo?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

Might be of interest to some given the topic.
 

Finn Seemann wrote:

Morphman wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/23/artificial-intelligence-football-tactics-malmo?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-gb

Might be of interest to some given the topic.
 

Interesting.  I didn't see the Brazilian boy score against England but the comments remind me of when Rooney burst on the scene at Everton.  That player didn't fit into 'possession football'.  He was a revelation but he was folded into the favoured style only to show his brilliance in the odd overhead kick or bustling run.  I think football has forgotten it is an entertainment product.  

Who was the last United player that you would happily pay the entry fee to see just him?  Probably Drunken for me and maybe Gauld.  And Gauld is a case in point - even he doesn't think Scottish football suits him.

GMS when he first signed.  I loved seeing that guy play with all his tricks and flicks.  Saying that, if he was up against me, I'd half him...... if I could catch him.