Finn Seemann wrote:

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Tek wrote:

Linked with another Ozzie.

Ben Garrucio. Left Back for Western United. Played for Hearts 2018-20 

Another one who'd need a work permit.

 

 
One of the massive advantages of Brexit is that it's now much easier to bring in non-EU players who previously wouldn't have met the criteria.

No idea as to the veracity of the story itself, but signing him could he arranged over a cup of tea at the Home Office.

Total nonsense - there is no significant difference to non EU (arguably harder given new points system) - it is however significantly harder to get an EU worker in.

 
That's not the case. We were previously aligned with EU/non-EU immigration rules which made it much harder to bring in non-EU players, and extremely straightforward to bring in EU players.

Now we can sign players from emerging markets as the EU door has slammed shut.

Mr Asghar explains it here

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/7088/MATHEW-CUDJOE-AGREES-TERMS-WITH-DUNDEE-UNITED.html

Last edited by AlwaysUnited (11/7/2022 1:58 pm)

Finn Seemann wrote:

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Total nonsense - there is no significant difference to non EU (arguably harder given new points system) - it is however significantly harder to get an EU worker in.

 
That's not the case. We were previously aligned with EU/non-EU immigration rules which made it much harder to bring in non-EU players, and extremely straightforward to bring in EU players.

Now we can sign players from emerging markets as the EU door has slammed shut.

Mr Asghar explains it here

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/7088/MATHEW-CUDJOE-AGREES-TERMS-WITH-DUNDEE-UNITED.html

Asghar doesn't explain what you say at all.  We have always been able to sign players from 'emerging' markets it was just that it was a hell of a lot easier to sign someone with an EU country passport.  My understanding is that they will all now be treated the same according to the new points based immigration system - i.e. it is isn't significantly easier to sign non-EU players but a lot harder to sign EU players compared to pre-Brexit.  

Unless of course football players have some sort of different treatment to any other worker which I haven't heard of.

In any case, I think I'm likely to be better qualified than Mr Asghar on this one....
 

 
Football players have different treatment. Mr Asghar is well aware of this. Here is an article that explains it.


https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/scottish-clubs-avoid-crippling-restrictions-on-signing-players-3484643

Finn Seemann wrote:

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Asghar doesn't explain what you say at all.  We have always been able to sign players from 'emerging' markets it was just that it was a hell of a lot easier to sign someone with an EU country passport.  My understanding is that they will all now be treated the same according to the new points based immigration system - i.e. it is isn't significantly easier to sign non-EU players but a lot harder to sign EU players compared to pre-Brexit.  

Unless of course football players have some sort of different treatment to any other worker which I haven't heard of.

In any case, I think I'm likely to be better qualified than Mr Asghar on this one....
 

 
Football players have different treatment. Mr Asghar is well aware of this. Here is an article that explains it.


https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/scottish-clubs-avoid-crippling-restrictions-on-signing-players-3484643

Interesting - to be fair I'd missed that - there is a different treatment for footballers compared to other workers.  However, I go back to my original point that it's absolutely just the same as before for non-EU players (including in relation to  the retained Exceptions Panel) and significantly harder for EU players.  So my original comment still applies (i.e. that bringing in non-EU players being easier is total nonsense - it's just the same as before).

Prior to Brexit, the Exemptions Panel would only permit the signing of a player if there wasn't an EU national capable of doing a similar job.  The usual criteria applied  in establishing this (International appearances, rating of current club/league, age etc). Realistically the only way to get a non-EU player is if they were of the type or reputation and quality that put them outside of United's budget, so we haven't signed any over the last few years (Sporle, Powers and Harkes all had EU passports). Kawashima was the exception, and you may remember his signing took several months, but ultimately the fact he had dozens of caps for Japan convinced the panel. He was an unusual signing though, as a rule of thumb we don't sign players of that profile.

Post-Brexit and the end of FoM, there is no longer a requirement to prove that an EU national can do a similar job, so players like Cudjoe and the Australian players we are linked with are much, much more likely to receive a work permit. They do still have to meet certain standards set down by the SFA Exemption Panel, but these are much less prescriptive.

In layman's terms, this is a "football version" if the points based system we heard so much about during Brexit, whereby cannot be signed purely on the basis of being an EEA national (as an example, Patrick N'Koyi and Rodney Sneijder would be very unlikely to be granted a work permit now, but were signed without question pre-Brexit as they had an automatic right to live and work here). In theory it should mean we can sign a higher quality of player, and United as a club may be attractive as a bridge to English teams due to the leagues profile and proximity.

The new, more relaxed criteria used by the Exemption Panel are available online in PDF format, if you google SFA Exemption Panel it should be the first link, and the criteria are all set out there

Last edited by AlwaysUnited (11/7/2022 5:08 pm)

DUNDEE UNITED ARE PLEASED TO WELCOME THE ARRIVAL OF FORMER FALKIRK AND LIVINGSTON MIDFIELDER CRAIG SIBBALD ON A TWO-YEAR DEAL.
Born in Falkirk, Sibbald came through the ranks at his hometown club and made his debut aged just 16 against Brechin City in the 2011/12 Challenge Cup. He would go on to make over 270 appearances for the Bairns, scoring 38 goals and claiming 47 assists in that time, with his most memorable moment coming in the 2014/15 Scottish Cup Semi-Final when he headed home the winning goal against Hibernian.

The 27-year-old moved to West Lothian in the summer of 2018 after Livi's promotion to the top tier, putting another 108 matches under his belt and becoming a mainstay in David Martindale's side. Craig also worked with our Assistant Manager, Liam Fox, during the 2020/21 campaign.

Capped at U16 & U17 level for Scotland, our third summer signing comes to Tannadice with a wealth of experience and has already teamed up with Jack Ross' squad at our Spanish training camp.

Welcome to the club Craig.

That’s sporle replacement signed

Solid addition

I think this lad is a solid 7/10 type.

Reminds me wee bit of Paul Watson sort of signing.

Last edited by CCX2 2010 (11/7/2022 9:42 pm)

Delighted with this one, Livi fans I know are gutted to see him go. He's got a point to prove after not featuring much last season.

A brave and unexpected signing, great work from the scouts, board and manager yet again ⭐

I am underwhelmed with the signing of Sibbald. Last week we were told we were going for 'quality over quantity' and one poster on here even claimed we were 'aiming for the Moon' with our signing targets. That narrative seems to have changed in the past two days to 'we really need players in and he'll do'. 

I should say i actually rated him at Falkirk as a top young prospect. But for me he's never really kicked on. For me he is a Championship/bottom 6 player and i cannot imagine any other Top 6 rival signing him (Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc).

If he is being signed as a squad player who will play DCM, then fair enough. If he is playing LM/LW then i really hoped we would be aiming higher. Sick of boring football. Would really have liked an out and out winger signed (like Scott Tiffoney), as Sibbald isn't the type to create massively and that is something we are very badly lacking i.e. creating chances for the Strikers. 

What Sibbald is good at is pressing teams off the ball, keeping his passing neat and tidy, and he has a good engine and can run all day. Reminds me a lot of Mark Kerr in that regard actually. But he is not someone from what i have seen of him who will greatly effect a game on the ball or be one who creates or scores goals.

Anyway, all that said, i wish the lad well and i hope he surprises me (in a good way) and i've underestimated him. He won't play for a bigger club than Utd, so huge opportunity for him.

So at the start of last season our midfield options were:

Fuchs, Butcher, Levitt, Harkes

Then we had youngsters on the fringes:

Hoti, Meekison, Glass, Mochrie

So we've lost Fuchs, likely Butcher, and also Hoti. Whilst Meekison and Glass have shown in flashes that they can step up.

Sibbald likely replaces Fuchs and Butcher (in terms of numbers, not style) so I'd definitely expect to see us snap up a fully defensive midfielder and maybe even one more. If we did that, our midfield options would be strong in my eyes. Think if at the start of last season we replaced Hoti with Sibbald, so we still had Fuchs and Butcher along with the others mentioned above, I'd see that as excellent strength in depth. So if we do recruit a couple more, I'd say our midfield options are strong. 



 

AlonsMosely wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Prior to Brexit, the Exemptions Panel would only permit the signing of a player if there wasn't an EU national capable of doing a similar job. The usual criteria applied in establishing this (International appearances, rating of current club/league, age etc). Realistically the only way to get a non-EU player is if they were of the type or reputation and quality that put them outside of United's budget, so we haven't signed any over the last few years (Sporle, Powers and Harkes all had EU passports). Kawashima was the exception, and you may remember his signing took several months, but ultimately the fact he had dozens of caps for Japan convinced the panel. He was an unusual signing though, as a rule of thumb we don't sign players of that profile.

Post-Brexit and the end of FoM, there is no longer a requirement to prove that an EU national can do a similar job, so players like Cudjoe and the Australian players we are linked with are much, much more likely to receive a work permit. They do still have to meet certain standards set down by the SFA Exemption Panel, but these are much less prescriptive.

In layman's terms, this is a "football version" if the points based system we heard so much about during Brexit, whereby cannot be signed purely on the basis of being an EEA national (as an example, Patrick N'Koyi and Rodney Sneijder would be very unlikely to be granted a work permit now, but were signed without question pre-Brexit as they had an automatic right to live and work here). In theory it should mean we can sign a higher quality of player, and United as a club may be attractive as a bridge to English teams due to the leagues profile and proximity.

The new, more relaxed criteria used by the Exemption Panel are available online in PDF format, if you google SFA Exemption Panel it should be the first link, and the criteria are all set out there

To be fair again, I was unaware of the requirement to prove that an EU national couldn't do a similar job assuming that is correct.  It certainly wouldn't have been a requirement to bring in a non-EU worker outwith football as far as I am aware.  Certainly an odd one and wonder why it had never been challenged!  I've got no issue with your comments on EU players as they didn't need to provide anything under freedom of movement, but I don't think there was ever an EU (or even British) first policy on non EU recruitment - there wouldn't need to be as there has been plenty of cheap EU labour up until Brexit.  Happy to be corrected on the apparent football anomaly - you learn something everyday - even occasionally from AU 

Does this mean you are not 'likely to be better qualified than Mr Ashgar' then Finn......
 

Seems that way on this one!   

Wasn't aware of the anomaly - which is very odd.  It would potentially explain the Jason Scotland permit refusal, although not St Johnstone securing the same player!  Typical Scottish football!

My defence is still the word 'likely' though Always rare exceptions to the rule...
 

Last edited by Finn Seemann (12/7/2022 9:12 am)

dufc2019 wrote:

United Arab Emarite wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
I also read that there is a DCT reporter out in Spain with the squad who has said the keeper is definitely a live option but that the left back is not as yet but is on our radar. Make of that what you will, but also rumours that the keeper has asked to have his contract terminated in order to join United.

Lucky DCT reporter!
Jammy ***tard actually!
I imagine the Courier will be wanting exclusives to justify the cost of his holiday so said reporter's stories might be mostly invention.
Maybe not tho, his ears are to the ground.
 

if he was a real reporter he would ask about Neilson and butcher but he's just there for fluff peaces
 

 
Do you honestly think that if he did that he would get any information that hasn't been released? Some things are dealt with in house, folk just need to accept that. If you were on a disciplinary at work would you want the whole world in on it?

dufc2019 wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

dufc2019 wrote:

if he was a real reporter he would ask about Neilson and butcher but he's just there for fluff peaces
 

 
Do you honestly think that if he did that he would get any information that hasn't been released? Some things are dealt with in house, folk just need to accept that. If you were on a disciplinary at work would you want the whole world in on it?

shouldn't stop him asking ffs
 

Maybe he has asked? What do you actually think someone from Utd would say if they asked? No Comment. simple as that. 

And actually, Asghar spoke about Neilson at Ross' unveiling. There was an article about it. 

LarsErikKjell wrote:

dufc2019 wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
Do you honestly think that if he did that he would get any information that hasn't been released? Some things are dealt with in house, folk just need to accept that. If you were on a disciplinary at work would you want the whole world in on it?

shouldn't stop him asking ffs
 

Maybe he has asked? What do you actually think someone from Utd would say if they asked? No Comment. simple as that. 

And actually, Asghar spoke about Neilson at Ross' unveiling. There was an article about it. 

 
People too hung up about the club finances. It's Ogrens money and it's entirely his choice what he does with it. What difference does it make to any one of us whether the club gets a fee for Neilson or not? Unless it's landing in my back pocket I couldn't give a flying fuck, as I said it's Ogrens money. As for Butcher, does anyone actually think that any club anywhere in the world would make their internal club disciplinary procedure common knowledge? Get real folks. Reporters asking difficult questions will, as you rightly pointed out, be told fuck all.

Last edited by Arabdownsouth (12/7/2022 2:59 pm)