Our 'club' is now DoE's project.  It's based solely on making a return for Ogren.  Everyone of our players will have a price and given the current predicament that will be much lower than we'd have hoped.  Clearly we can't afford to hire anyone new until we sell someone (more than one I guess) for the 'right' price.

Not screwing up the League Cup group buys them a little more time.  If we start the league badly, as I expect, we are going to be up sh8t creek without a paddle.  We'll make late sales and have insufficient time to bring in decent replacements (as most clubs have done their business already).  They know this, but the gamble is that the youngsters will be good enough to keep the team up.  A lot of pressure on them.  I'm not confident.

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Lilley01 wrote:

It's the party line from the top and linked to the very reason he was given the job in the first place. Ogren wants his money. He has a vision of investing in youth and reaping the benefits. TA is in place to refine the strategy and deliver the structure that will meet the owners vision. Courts is there on a day to day basis to facilitate this strategy and part of that is drawing attention to our youth academy, attract more scouts and entice bids. 
 

 
The best way for any of that to bear fruit is to have a winning team on the pitch, otherwise our players young or old will be worth buttons.

A winning team on the pitch is a win for everyone, I don't see why folk are making such a big deal of this.

Ask yourself where we would be right now without Mark Ogren? Maybe time to give the man a little bit of respect.

This is where we are going to fall down.  On the basis of our current squad I don't see us having a winning team on the pitch.  It would be great if Tam is some sort of tactical genius that gets our boys playing at a higher level than they look like on paper, but a'body seems to think that the football is just the same as under Mellon.  We're doomed.

Finn Seemann wrote:

This is where we are going to fall down.  On the basis of our current squad I don't see us having a winning team on the pitch.  It would be great if Tam is some sort of tactical genius that gets our boys playing at a higher level than they look like on paper, but a'body seems to think that the football is just the same as under Mellon.  We're doomed.

 
Don't worry, we are always doomed, yet somehow we have survived.

Think how many "must win" games we didn't win last season.

I'm not saying everything is perfect, it never will be. But I don't understand why so many people seem to think MO or TA or whoever have some ulterior motive that somehow means they don't want the team to succeed.

Our worst case scenario is we have a cracking year, plenty of breakout stars, and they all get sold next summer for millions, lining the pockets of the owners and leaving us screwed next season. Literally nobody is worried about that right now, so I think we will be fine...

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Lilley01 wrote:

It's the party line from the top and linked to the very reason he was given the job in the first place. Ogren wants his money. He has a vision of investing in youth and reaping the benefits. TA is in place to refine the strategy and deliver the structure that will meet the owners vision. Courts is there on a day to day basis to facilitate this strategy and part of that is drawing attention to our youth academy, attract more scouts and entice bids. 
 

 
The best way for any of that to bear fruit is to have a winning team on the pitch, otherwise our players young or old will be worth buttons.

A winning team on the pitch is a win for everyone, I don't see why folk are making such a big deal of this.

Ask yourself where we would be right now without Mark Ogren? Maybe time to give the man a little bit of respect.

This is where we are going to fall down.  On the basis of our current squad I don't see us having a winning team on the pitch.  It would be great if Tam is some sort of tactical genius that gets our boys playing at a higher level than they look like on paper, but a'body seems to think that the football is just the same as under Mellon.  We're doomed.

 
Apart from the 4 straight wins we've had since the start of the season you mean?

Just playing devils advocate there as I do agree we need to strengthen. But its not the Champions league we are competing in here. The level of opposition is still very low across most of the league.

LarsErikKjell wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
The best way for any of that to bear fruit is to have a winning team on the pitch, otherwise our players young or old will be worth buttons.

A winning team on the pitch is a win for everyone, I don't see why folk are making such a big deal of this.

Ask yourself where we would be right now without Mark Ogren? Maybe time to give the man a little bit of respect.

This is where we are going to fall down.  On the basis of our current squad I don't see us having a winning team on the pitch.  It would be great if Tam is some sort of tactical genius that gets our boys playing at a higher level than they look like on paper, but a'body seems to think that the football is just the same as under Mellon.  We're doomed.

 
Apart from the 4 straight wins we've had since the start of the season you mean?

Just playing devils advocate there as I do agree we need to strengthen. But its not the Champions league we are competing in here. The level of opposition is still very low across most of the league.

We all know that the league is a massive step up from this nonsense cup group stage.  We've got a tough run of games to start and, whilst winning is a good habit to have, I just don't see us taking that form into the league.  The main driver of folk to get rid of Mellon was to avoid murderball.  Seems that's what we've been playing against the minnows and scraping wins -  that won't translate to the league.  I'd love to be proven wrong and find that we have stumbled across the holy grail of football club management, but we haven't.  Our club is controlled by a charlatan and our American owner continues to fall for his bluster.  I fear for the day that Ogren realises he's been had.

Finn Seemann wrote:

Just chuckling to myself that we've gone from 'courting' Steve Mclaren to appointing Tam Courts in less than a year and some people still have confidence in Ashgar!

 
We could court Lionel Messi, doesn't mean he'd come. Mclaren didn't want the job or did that fact not fit the agenda?

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Just chuckling to myself that we've gone from 'courting' Steve Mclaren to appointing Tam Courts in less than a year and some people still have confidence in Ashgar!

 
We could court Lionel Messi, doesn't mean he'd come. Mclaren didn't want the job or did that fact not fit the agenda?

Your heads fairly stuck in the sand isn't it?  McLaren was never a serious candidate.  We could never have afforded him.  His name was all part of the Ashgar 'I know everyone in football' bullsh8.  More Ashgar bluster in other words.  Same with countless players that were leaked at the same time.  

Do you seriously think McLaren was mulling over an offer from us that had a salary that he might have lowered himself too?  You're maybe more gullable than I first thought if you did.

McLaren had all but signed and then his wife got cold feet at the last minute. He literally put a statement out to say he was close to signing for the club and was very impressed with us.

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
We could court Lionel Messi, doesn't mean he'd come. Mclaren didn't want the job or did that fact not fit the agenda?

Your heads fairly stuck in the sand isn't it?  McLaren was never a serious candidate.  We could never have afforded him.  His name was all part of the Ashgar 'I know everyone in football' bullsh8.  More Ashgar bluster in other words.  Same with countless players that were leaked at the same time.  

Do you seriously think McLaren was mulling over an offer from us that had a salary that he might have lowered himself too?  You're maybe more gullable than I first thought if you did.

 
Don't let the facts stop you though eh?

Head in the sand or knickers in a twist over things that haven't even gone wrong yet? Hmmm, being an Arab I'll stick to the sand I think 👍

What facts 

On the sand front, thought so....maybe the Arab love of sand is holding us back right enough 

Last edited by Finn Seemann (22/7/2021 6:17 pm)

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
Don't let the facts stop you though eh?

Head in the sand or knickers in a twist over things that haven't even gone wrong yet? Hmmm, being an Arab I'll stick to the sand I think 👍

What facts 

On the sand front, thought so....maybe the Arab love of sand is holding us back right enough 

 
Tha fact that Mclaren only turned the job down at the 11th hour because his missus told him to, the deal was as good as done. Do you not think he'd have had something to say if this was all fabrication?

Fact?  So the team that has now appointed a complete nobody would have had the former England manager at the helm but for his missus pulling the plug at the last minute.  Do you read the Beano?

Unless it needs stated again we've gone from 'just about' appointing one of the highest profile managers in the history of the league to appointing likely its lowest profile and qualified manager in less than a year.  The former England manager appointment wasn't pure fantasy though, right enough....

I appreciate that I don't swallow anything that Asghar says, but some boys appetite for bullsh8 seems unending.

Last edited by Finn Seemann (22/7/2021 7:43 pm)

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
Tha fact that Mclaren only turned the job down at the 11th hour because his missus told him to, the deal was as good as done. Do you not think he'd have had something to say if this was all fabrication?

Fact?  So the team that has now appointed a complete nobody would have had the former England manager at the helm but for his missus pulling the plug at the last minute.  Do you read the Beano?

Unless it needs stated again we've gone from 'just about' appointing one of the highest profile managers in the history of the league to appointing likely its lowest profile and qualified manager in less than a year.  The former England manager appointment wasn't pure fantasy though, right enough....

I appreciate that I don't swallow anything that Asghar says, but some boys appetite for bullsh8 seems unending.

 
I notice you didn't answer my question.

I'm just not going to join in an agenda that is based upon nothing but speculation about what could happen.

The club was on the brink before the Ogrens stepped in, on the brink mate.

The Ogrens trust Asghar whether you like it or not, they own the club and its their prerogative to employ who they wish. All this assumption that Asghar pulls all the strings and Ogren is having the wool pulled over his eyes is bollocks in my opinion. The man is a self made multi millionaire ffs, you don't do that by being a gullible fool. Make no mistake, Mark Ogren will be rubber stamping every decision. This is 2021 and you don't need to be physically in the boardroom to appear in the boardroom

Haha - as someone who has operated his business from his dining room for the last 18 months I'm well aware that you can hold a board meeting by Teams.  In terms of where we were when Ogren stepped in we were not on the brink as proven by Ogren's willingness to pay Thompson for the club.  As you say what self made multi millionaire would have bought a basket case if we were a basket case (truth be told though, thinking he would get a return on his investment in a Scottish football club does make me question how he did make his multi millions!).  As for his faith in Asghar, I don't get it.  After having been in the guys company I wouldn't invest a single penny of my hard earned on the bloke.

I didn't answer your question as I thought it was pretty clear that my view is that the whole McLaren thing was bullsh8.  Maybe he does know McLaren and maybe McLaren was willing to let him use his name to bolster his credentials?  He was never coming to Tannadice though.  

On the speculation as to what might happen point.  You are right, it might not.  However to put blind faith in our current gamble of a 'project' is crazy.  It should be questioned by the fans - it's our club.

LarsErikKjell wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
I notice you didn't answer my question.

I'm just not going to join in an agenda that is based upon nothing but speculation about what could happen.

The club was on the brink before the Ogrens stepped in, on the brink mate.

The Ogrens trust Asghar whether you like it or not, they own the club and its their prerogative to employ who they wish. All this assumption that Asghar pulls all the strings and Ogren is having the wool pulled over his eyes is bollocks in my opinion. The man is a self made multi millionaire ffs, you don't do that by being a gullible fool. Make no mistake, Mark Ogren will be rubber stamping every decision. This is 2021 and you don't need to be physically in the boardroom to appear in the boardroom

Haha - as someone who has operated his business from his dining room for the last 18 months I'm well aware that you can hold a board meeting by Teams.  In terms of where we were when Ogren stepped in we were not on the brink as proven by Ogren's willingness to pay Thompson for the club.  As you say what self made multi millionaire would have bought a basket case if we were a basket case (truth be told though, thinking he would get a return on his investment in a Scottish football club does make me question how he did make his multi millions!).  As for his faith in Asghar, I don't get it.  After having been in the guys company I wouldn't invest a single penny of my hard earned on the bloke.

I didn't answer your question as I thought it was pretty clear that my view is that the whole McLaren thing was bullsh8.  Maybe he does know McLaren and maybe McLaren was willing to let him use his name to bolster his credentials?  He was never coming to Tannadice though.  

On the speculation as to what might happen point.  You are right, it might not.  However to put blind faith in our current gamble of a 'project' is crazy.  It should be questioned by the fans - it's our club.

 
Of course it should be questioned. But you've decided its fucked before getting the answer.

That is true, but I think the chances of it not being are not as good as 50/50 so on probability alone I think I'm probably right.  You said yourself you were 50/50 so you must see that?  Don't get me wrong, happy to be wrong.  Very happy, but it all fails the sniff test at the moment.  

As for the prejudice, it's all based on the actings of the man since he's been in charge at Tannadice, not some whim.  I'll admit he's got some things right (Shankland, promotion, keeping us in the division) but there is so much that he has gotten wrong.  He appears to be the sort of bloke who has total confidence in his vision, doesn't like hearing an opposing view and will carry on even if things don't quite work our reinventing history to suit.  That generally doesn't end well.  Just my opinion though...

Last edited by Finn Seemann (22/7/2021 9:42 pm)

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

  I think TA is deluded into believing his own hype and Ogren for some inexplicable reason can't see through him.

Got it in one.

To me Mr. O seems determined to stick to a structure with Mr Blobby at the top.
Might be the standard in the US, don't know, but it seems like he's backed an overweight horse here.
 
Once again clocks ticking toward end of silly season and best we can hope for is a couple of key signings ready to run. 
Hope I'm wrong but cannae see it happening. No at this rate anyway.

Consequently young Tam is left carrying the can and has no option other than spout cliches.
He's in an invidious position where his future relies on Ashgar's ineptitude.

Worried.

 

Calm down, nothings happened yet....