It has been said on plenty of occasions (and a couple of times by Scott Ogren) that the club use social media/forums to gauge fan opinion. If they have a look across all of these platforms over the last couple of days and still end up appointing Courts, I will be stunned.

Make him assistant to the new guy. I have zero issue with that. But my god it is a massive risk to take. Not only in terms of the fan reaction but also on the pitch. Combine those two together and you are looking at a situation where if he loses 2 or 3 games on the bounce, some fans will literally protest outside the ground calling for him (and probably TA) to be sent packing.

MO has to step in here, and I'm sure he is heavily involved anyway, and think about what is most important here. I get the push on youth but we are taking it to the extreme here.

Get McInnes in, put Courts in as one of his coaches, take it from there. Dont mess about with our premiership status 12 months after we finally got back after 4 years.

smedDUm wrote:

Mark & Scott are in it for the money

That is no conspiracy. He (Mark Ogren) said so himself, since Day One.


 

smedDUm wrote:

Tek wrote:

smedDUm wrote:

Mark & Scott are in it for the money

That is no conspiracy. He (Mark Ogren) said so himself, since Day One.


 

Agreed sorry Tek, the conspiracy is their net gain is to be by means of selling young starlets.
Like some sort of puppy farm?
I've no problem with them making money but God help them.
 

They are down 7M quid, so far.

How else do they recoup the money? Other than sell players.

Why else do you think there is this weird obsession with us 'going with youth'? How many young players did Cup double winning St.Johnstone have in their ranks btw?

It's all bullshit. The Ogren's have made a grave error thinking they could make money from DUFC and everything that is about to happen at the club is their desperate attempt to claw back some of their money.


 

Tek wrote:

smedDUm wrote:

Tek wrote:

That is no conspiracy. He (Mark Ogren) said so himself, since Day One.


 

Agreed sorry Tek, the conspiracy is their net gain is to be by means of selling young starlets.
Like some sort of puppy farm?
I've no problem with them making money but God help them.
 

They are down 7M quid, so far.

How else do they recoup the money? Other than sell players.

Why else do you think there is this weird obsession with us 'going with youth'? How many young players did Cup double winning St.Johnstone have in their ranks btw?

It's all bullshit. The Ogren's have made a grave error thinking they could make money from DUFC and everything that is about to happen at the club is their desperate attempt to claw back some of their money.


 

To be fair, St Johnstone had 5 players in their team that came through their youth system: Zander Clark, Jason Kerr, Liam Gordon, Ali McCann and Chris Kane, plus Stevie May who was on the bench. However, none of these players were just chucked in at 16-17 to play week-in, week-out and they certainly weren't chucked in en-masse either. In fact all of them are in or approaching their mid-20's (bar McCann who is a very good player btw) and all of them spent several seasons out on loan in the lower leagues (many of them in fact played against us in the Championship for teams like QotS) and didn't establish themselves as 1st team players in St Johnstone's team until the last 2-3 years by which point they were much tougher having played regularly at a few different levels. Exactly the same model as we followed under Levein/Houston with players like Goodwillie, Kenneth, Russell etc. Interestingly, St Johnstone aren't part of the top level of Project Brave and therefore aren't hamstrung by the ridiculously costly demands placed on clubs by it.

I actually feel really sorry for the kids we've got. The expectations the club are placing on them because of the way they are talking them up so much and talking up the systems we have in place ('Champions League players') as well as an expectation that they are going to be part of some sort of production line to be sold for big money year after year is ridiculous pressure to be put on young laddies who should simply be learning the game and getting experience gradually. If following football tells us anything it is that most of them will fail to make it as footballers at the top level long-term. You only need to see how many people are citing the u18's record over the last 11 games. The club are promoting them as world beaters so of course people are now following their results then asking questions about this when they see their results are poor. Years ago I don't remember anyone talking about the youth teams results other than when we'd occasionally get to the BP youth cup final.
 

Last edited by lifesanocean (26/5/2021 11:01 am)

Our best youth players are out on loan just as they were long before the Ogrens turned up.
Nothing has changed.
An awful lot of unecessary panic going on

I very rarely post these days, but always have a look in. 

I've said numerous times Asgar is a disaster. It's a win win for him at every turn - thats why we have so many staff. Ogren believes everything he says which is worrying, Asgar bleeding him dry. 

Folk need to remember where we were, and where we might be now if Mark Ogren hadn't put his money where his mouth is. People very defensive about the money put into the club by the foundation (rightly so of course) but totally disrespectful of the amount of cash the man has put in from his own pockets!

A little bit of perspective perhaps? And gratitude that we still have a club at all!

Tek wrote:

Only one man ultimately makes the decisions regards Dundee United Football Club.

Time for him to be seen and heard. I'm not a fan of this culture of only hearing from the Ogren's when things are 

1) Going well
2) They Want DUSF money

This is not a 2nd tier Ice Hockey team in Canada or a 5th tier Baseball team in Milwaukee or some fucking place.

Dundee United F.C. is a household name in British and European Football. It is an institution. An organisation that people pin their hopes and dream upon.

We need, desperately, some leadership (from the very top), some ambition, some positivity and for our supporters to feel that the club is not just a vehicle for the owners to rake back some of their money on the potential sale of young players (before they are ready, and at the detriment of Utd 1st XI).

The supporters are worried. Some of us, very worried.

Now is the time for strong leadership, honesty and communication.

Over to you Mr Ogren.


 

Is it not simply the case that Ogren was naive and was "sold" the club, rather akin to people being conned into buying a timeshare in Kinlochrannoch in the 2nd week of January circa 1982?

The very fact he trusted the chap who sold it to him, to run the club displayed a remarkable level of ignorance. Does anyone actually know whether TA got a fee or a percentage of the deal?

It is not as if we are some European Superleague team where the TV rights are running into near billions and bookmaking firms want to sponsor us because the Chinese will gamble on anything that moves. Who in their right mind would invest in a mid tier SPL club with the intention of getting consistent returns. Anyone heard of a SPL club of declaring a dividend?

In terms of generating talent, how many of the under 12 intake go on to get SPL (or above) consistent first team experience? It must be around 10% or lower.

When I see the words: "Elite", "High Performance", "Collective", "Buy side", " Sell side", it makes me weep. You would think these characters attended LBS, INSEAD, IMD or HEC not bloody Manchester Met, Abertay, Napier or any other former polytechnic trying to knock together some income bearing course in Sports Management/Psychology. I actually read that Tam Courts has experience of "Change management"

No, I just think Mark Ogren has been sold a pig in a poke. My advice to him would be to cut his losses and try to sell the club to the supporters trust or get a local high street accountant to give him an objective opinion on cost cuttings.