Tekel Towers » Honest opinions on the season so far?

Tek · 14/10/2020 2:55 am

Please excuse the subsequent rant.

But i'm absolutely baffled as to what the fuck Mellon and Asghar are playing at.

Everyone who watched Utd last season knew that the team that 'won' the Championship were actually piss poor and without about six new 1st team ready recruits, would struggle badly in the Premiership.

We have (after much dragging of the feet) made 6 signings. But 2 are supposedly 'Academy signings' and 4 of them haven't featured at all. The other two (Ryan Edwards and Luke Bolton) have came up the road from England and neither have set the World on fire, thus far (being kind).

Now, is the lack of signings due to Covid? The Hearts court case? or both? Well if it is, just come out and say so. United fans are perhaps hard to please but we are also even handed and forgiving (compared to others).

Mr Asghar you were frequently in the press when things were going well last season. I know you read this Forum.

Where are you?

If the above is true and we are scraping the barrel financially as a club, come out and say so. You will find a much more sympathetic support than the one you are currently experiencing.

Without knowing the IN's/OUT's of the clubs finances i would have to say currently the Summer recruitment has been poor and has in no way improved us.

We do however have two Internationalist's in Jeando Fuchs and Marc McNulty to come into our squad. And we can only hope both improve us as a consequence. I'll come back to one of them later.

On Mickey Mellon specifically now. I admit despite knowing nothing of him i was initially very enamoured with him due to his openess, honesty, charisma and (seemingly) ambition for the club. Well what else can you go on before ye really know a Manager?

He also (to everyone's surprise) promoted youths into the 1st team. Players we hadn't scarcely seen in the Championship previously. The team, early doors, was playing pressing, hard working and energetic football. Without the spectacle being particularly 'easy on the eye'.

And therein lies the problem for me. You can only hide behind the fact that hard work trumps quality for awhile.

But latterly we have seen neither. Quite startingly so.

Utd were the first top flight side since 2008 to lose to a team from two tiers lower on Saturday. And it wasn't just the defeat that was shocking. It was the manner of it. One attempt on target all match.

One on target in the previous match v Livi. And how many against Kelty? Can't have been more than 5. And how many good chances at that, from good play where we have cut them open etc?

It is deeply alarming.

For me a lot of Mellon's early bravado and rhetoric regarding us being 'the Champions' and insisting 'We Are Dundee United' has quickly and interestingly switched towards trying to remind the support that we are a 'newly promoted team'. The whole facade has disintegrated, very quickly.

I have skimmed over his recruitment. Because i simply don't know how much of that is/isn't on him.

But in terms of the teams he has put out and the formations etc, we can comment.

I think he has been overly negative. First game at home to St.Johnstone. 1-0 up at half time and with a man advantage. We don't turn up at all 2nd half and in fact are dominated. His subs were also poor.

Our next match afterwards we play very well at Motherwell and deservedly win 0-1. A performance that has the entire support purring.

Thereafter? Been so so negative for the most part. Yes, we have amassed a few points and are in a decent league position. But let's be honest the football has been awful. Really awful.

The Livi match recently? Fucking shambles and a real eye-opener to the entire support.. One of the worst Utd displays i've seen in many years.

There is a chance thereafter however for MM to register three good wins against Brechin, Peterhead and Kelty Hearts. The latter two at home.

A chance to shake-up the line-up, bring in players like Mochrie, Hoti, Powers, or Marc McNulty, even for a 10-15 minute cameo per match (how else is he supposed to get match fit?) .

We, depressingly, witnessed none of that and instead seen him stick stubbornly with the same spine of the team i.e Edwards, Connolly, Reynolds, Butcher, Harkes, Pawlett.

The result? = 2 wins outta 3. But only 1 goal scored in the latter 2 games (against a League 1 side and a Lowland League side). Resulting in us almost certainly heading out of the Betfred and nothing new really learned about any fringe players.

Do i back Mickey Mellon? Yes, i do. 100%

But i 'm waiting for him to show this 'improvement' he insists we will make in training after every match. I don't see improvement or progression. I see the team regressing.

I see a defence that can't keep clean sheets. A midfield that neither defends, creates or has any width. And a forward line that though may be blessed with good finishers, will be starved of any real service.

In short, i fear for us until January.

Beharder · 14/10/2020 7:48 am

No Utd supporter could fail to be anything other than disappointed so far.
It's about expectations really. Granted we have the 6th biggest fan base in Scotland so ultimately the goal should be top 6 finish minimum.
However the team has been pretty awful since the relegation season.
Peterhead game was awful but so was losing to East Fife at home in the cup this time last year. Sadly I was not surprised at all.
MM will have probably been stunned at just how poor the Champions were, the we are Dundee United stuff was probably to try and give the players a bit of confidence.

I hoped we would finish 9/10th this year, remember this team lost 4-0 to QOS so why people got angry when they lost 4-0 Killie & The Rangers surely it was to be expected.

I'm still hopeful we can survive in the league this year.

PatReilly · 14/10/2020 8:05 am

Disappointed with the overall performances, and some of the results of late, but it's not a huge surprise. My concern for this season mostly concentrated around central defence, and I was taken aback when Mark Connnolly got a long contract so early in the season, to go along with and beyond the Mark Reynolds deal.

However, I thought Butcher and Harkes would be ok at the top level, but it appears they are struggling to cope as well. Maybe with the correct player beside them, or in a different partnership, that would work.

On the cash front, I don't think it's a good idea to state we are struggling financially, or the extent of that: it just lowers the value of our players for prospective buyers. I'd guess every club is in trouble with their cashflow presently.

The 2008 statistic isn't right, Tek. But you are correct that the manner of the defeat is more concerning than the embarrassment, and in recent games the lack of drive and urgency, and absence of apparent talent is a huge worry.

Shakey Isles Arab · 14/10/2020 8:06 am

Tek, your summation is detailed, covers every one of the many relevant points succintly & clearly and is 100% spot on.

I hope Fuchs and McNulty are good value & others return, gel quickly, and we get season back on track.
I hope Ashgar and Micky read this and take note.
I hope Mr. Ogren reads and acts on it by way of signing quality free agents if poss. (Which seems too little too late in any case.)
I back Micky and hope we don't descend into the all to familiar calls for the chopping block.

14/10/2020 8:08 am

Nearly end of 1st quarter so as good a time as any to do this.

I'm willing to give the club the benefit of the doubt that the pandemic has negatively affected the recruitment. I don't feel the need to know all the details, and I'm not sure showing our hand openly would do us any favours.

On the park, I think we've got an acceptable points total and up until the Livi game, I was quite content with performances. Some good, some bad. Pretty typical United.

I don't know what to think right now. I think Livi almost took us by surprise and it's knocked confidence which has affected team selection and individual performances since then. I don't think we played well last night, but there was an improvement in tempo and work rate and I wonder if MM wanted to use that game as a dress rehearsal for the Aberdeen game.
I'm concerned about Mark Connolly though. He's just an accident waiting to happen. He had far too much of the ball v Kelty and they were rightly happy to let him have it.

A general point on the standard of football. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a game. I'm worried that it's changed for good and with all the VAR shite, I'm losing interest.

Arabdownsouth · 14/10/2020 8:52 am

Goodie Conway 2 wrote:
Nearly end of 1st quarter so as good a time as any to do this.

I'm willing to give the club the benefit of the doubt that the pandemic has negatively affected the recruitment. I don't feel the need to know all the details, and I'm not sure showing our hand openly would do us any favours.

On the park, I think we've got an acceptable points total and up until the Livi game, I was quite content with performances. Some good, some bad. Pretty typical United.

I don't know what to think right now. I think Livi almost took us by surprise and it's knocked confidence which has affected team selection and individual performances since then. I don't think we played well last night, but there was an improvement in tempo and work rate and I wonder if MM wanted to use that game as a dress rehearsal for the Aberdeen game.
I'm concerned about Mark Connolly though. He's just an accident waiting to happen. He had far too much of the ball v Kelty and they were rightly happy to let him have it.

A general point on the standard of football. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a game. I'm worried that it's changed for good and with all the VAR shite, I'm losing interest.

Imagine if covid 19 was to wipe all the money out of the game and we went back to the good old days before Sky got involved. Football was a hell of a lot more enjoyable back then 😃

Arabdownsouth · 14/10/2020 9:12 am

Just read Stevie Frail's comment that Dundee United don't have a divine right to beat anyone. Kinda flies in the face of "we are Dundee United" a wee bit wouldn't you say?

I disagree personally, and if fans can't expect Dundee United, a Premiership team, to beat Kelty fucking Hearts then I'm afraid I give up.

Arabdownsouth · 14/10/2020 11:09 am

Nommi57 wrote:
Arabdownsouth wrote:
Just read Stevie Frail's comment that Dundee United don't have a divine right to beat anyone. Kinda flies in the face of "we are Dundee United" a wee bit wouldn't you say?

I disagree personally, and if fans can't expect Dundee United, a Premiership team, to beat Kelty fucking Hearts then I'm afraid I give up.

We've all heard of mirror man by human league the words seem to chime with what's going on at Tannadice ,change mirror man to Mellon man have a look and ffs cheer up.

You talk an immeasurable amount of shite, I need no advice at all from you. You tag on to every post of mine like a some kind of clingy shite that won't let go. Just grow up please.

Lilley01 · 14/10/2020 12:24 pm

we knew what we were getting with Robbie and it wasn't great. If it worked well, it was fine. If it didn't it was turgid.

Other end of the flexibility spectrum with Mellon. Wants choice over shape and personnel which looks great when your winning and looks daft when you don't. We badly need more control over games. Suspect mellon knows that with signing Fuchs, a lot resting on his fairly young shoulders is a worry.

If he is the answer though, that calms the whole team down. Allows the game plan to be applied more consistently (opposed to giving the ball away) and hopefully means more attacks and chances created for our fairly good choice of strikers. Still think we'll regret not bringing in a wide forward like Jamie Murphy, Greg Stewart or even the Finnish lad.

More control also helps with the strain on the defence who are being put under pressure and are not responding. Centre halves are probably suffering most from the shift between back 3 and back 4.

As an aside, the we're Dundee United chest thumping needs to stop. There's other ways to build confidence in players. Mellon's interview's have been up and down for me so far. I think the questions being asked are often poor though. Whether the club are keeping their cards close to their chest or not, it doesn't appear they are regularly even asked to reveal them.

Shedtastic · 14/10/2020 2:33 pm

Season so far?
I would say as expected, I've always thought we would finish 8th or 9th (7th at best) and that's where we are.
The Aberdeen game comes under the 'don't expect anything' category, same as the OF and possibly Hibs, those teams are miles ahead of us but of course we can spring a surprise now and again.

Upcoming games will define our season, St Johnstone, Ross County, St Mirren, Hamilton and Livingstone to play before we meet one of the top 4 again, we must look to get at least 9 points from those games and we should have a cushion to build on.

Arabdownsouth · 14/10/2020 2:38 pm

Shedtastic wrote:
Season so far?
I would say as expected, I've always thought we would finish 8th or 9th (7th at best) and that's where we are.
The Aberdeen game comes under the 'don't expect anything' category, same as the OF and possibly Hibs, those teams are miles ahead of us but of course we can spring a surprise now and again.

Upcoming games will define our season, St Johnstone, Ross County, St Mirren, Hamilton and Livingstone to play before we meet one of the top 4 again, we must look to get at least 9 points from those games and we should have a cushion to build on.

Trouble is that Livingston made us look like wee boys. That performance is still haunting me tbh. I'd be ok with not expecting much from Saturday if we had put in some decent performances before it, but just lately we have looked a mid table championship team at best.

Morphman · 14/10/2020 2:47 pm

I think we've done really well this season.

And now I have your attention, I think we've been absolutely shite. I know that saying having fans in would make a difference is maybe a bit naïve because other teams would be the same, and financially we'd be doing better, but to me the empty stands signify what's very much an 'out of sight, out of mind' approach from the club:

If they can't see the empty seats and hear the boo's then they can carry on playing turgid football and signing nae cunt. We can't expect to win every game, and I don't, but another year of turgid shite being served up and this time no getting to sit in Tannadice is severely beginning to piss me off. Nae danger I'll be paying for another ST next year to be watching a low standard of football again. I honestly reckon now I've got options with sitting in the house you're lucky if I even watch 45 mins in total of each of our games thus far this season.

Shite tactics, shite fitba, shite on the park. Shite communication, shite merchandising, shite off the park.

Last edited by Morphman (14/10/2020 3:11 pm)

Shedtastic · 14/10/2020 2:49 pm

I know what you're saying but the team that beat Ross County and Motherwell away and did well against Hibs and Celtic is still in there somewhere, I'm hoping MM can revitalise them again.

Tek · 14/10/2020 2:52 pm

PatReilly wrote:
Disappointed with the overall performances, and some of the results of late, but it's not a huge surprise. My concern for this season mostly concentrated around central defence, and I was taken aback when Mark Connnolly got a long contract so early in the season, to go along with and beyond the Mark Reynolds deal.

However, I thought Butcher and Harkes would be ok at the top level, but it appears they are struggling to cope as well. Maybe with the correct player beside them, or in a different partnership, that would work.

On the cash front, I don't think it's a good idea to state we are struggling financially, or the extent of that: it just lowers the value of our players for prospective buyers. I'd guess every club is in trouble with their cashflow presently.

The 2008 statistic isn't right, Tek. But you are correct that the manner of the defeat is more concerning than the embarrassment, and in recent games the lack of drive and urgency, and absence of apparent talent is a huge worry.

I was going by this stat posted oline by the SPFL. I see now it was 2012.

Still, pretty embarrassing stat.

Lancashire-Arab · 14/10/2020 3:51 pm

Was underwhelmed by the signings we made in the close season - but we know why that was.

First Game I liked the tempo and pressing we played with it was a big change from last season and barring a player thinking he is better than he is and making an error we could have walked away with a win.
A couple of goods wins on the road and was looking very positive.

Since then we have had a couple of bad defeats and everyone seems to be aware of how we play and are adapting to our style which we desperately need to evolve.

We still seem to struggle with big physical sides (Livi and Hamilton showed this), our defending needs to improve and we give away possession too cheaply (given the comments from the sidelines against Kelty the coaches are looking at this).

Remains to be seen how good our signings will be but optimistic and if you had said we woudl be where we are in the league after this round then I would have been OK in our first season back. However recent performances have me concerned and want to see it turned around, we need to be better at home, we need to keep possession to create more chances and we need to stop leaking goals.

Just my perspective on it, sure some will disagree.

Tek · 14/10/2020 5:10 pm

Looks like the drawbridge has been pulled up.

SuperMario · 14/10/2020 7:15 pm

Tek wrote:
Looks like the drawbridge has been pulled up.

The one thing I detest, is when someone is having a go at anyone players staff etc, is when they tag the person

At end of the day there human beings like us

Tek · 14/10/2020 7:50 pm

SuperMario wrote:
Tek wrote:
Looks like the drawbridge has been pulled up.

The one thing I detest, is when someone is having a go at anyone players staff etc, is when they tag the person

At end of the day there human beings like us

I don't condone that myself. Though i have personally never seen any vitriolic stuff tagged towards Tony.

There was some really horrible stuff tagged to players in the relegation season, that i thought was out of order.

Particularly to Blair Spittal.

It's curious timing from Mr Asghar deleting his account. Now that his role is being put under scrutiny.

Shakey Isles Arab · 14/10/2020 8:26 pm

If someone's no doing what they're paid for then they deserve all the rubbishing they get for that.
Shouldnae get personal.

All seems a bit opaque at the moment tho' .
We seemed to have more clarity and better communication under Robbie.

Bottom line: wtf is going on ?

Answer: will depend on success of guys coming in, returning and please one or two quality free agents. In terms of Fuchs, a lot to pin on young laddies shoulders; in terms of McNulty - for me, jury's out.

MockChop · 14/10/2020 10:28 pm

League wise, pretty much where I expect to finish. 7th (joint 5th if you want a spin on it)
We are 3rd in this ‘other 8’ league. (again, joint top - spin)

With performances taking a real dip, it’s a bit worrying. Cup performances largely abysmal.

I want Utd to go far in cups as much as anyone, but for me this season is about survival. The season is going to be a complete shit show. Players isolating, games off, no fans etc. It’s likely to be a total struggle for half the league. Stay up & regroup for 21/22.

I’m not calling for the gaffers head, far from it. He’s made a couple of head scratching decisions but I haven’t forgotten that he landed the job just 5 days before the season started.

We’ve had the ‘new manager bounce’ and now it’s gone flat. Time to earn your money, Micky.

I’m not saying finishing 8/9th will constitute a good season for Utd. But it might just have to do..

Lilley01 · 15/10/2020 7:20 am

finishing 8th or 9th is realistic, I think everyone knows that given the circumstances of the season. Unfortunately, that means losing to9 Livi at home and Killie away. Now, the manner of defeat i.e. no effort can dictate the mood and tone after games. However, the reason we lose is our squad is not good enough to have the consistency needed to be up where Hibs and Aberdeen are. Therefore games like that will happen.

I don't like it, i'm angry after them but if we say the bigger picture for this year is lower mid-table then we need to accept that means some awful defeats along the way and try not to over react at the time.

PatReilly · 15/10/2020 7:52 am

Pretty much generally agree with MockChop and Lilley01, and would add the solution of spending wads of cash to sort out perceived problems, put forward here and elsewhere, seems a good one when it's not our personal money, notwithstanding many supporters have paid out for season tickets, merchandise costs and hospitality packages.

it appears, in the present situation, the club has a difficult balancing act to perform.

That doesn't detract from the inexplicable performances in some matches, which is frustrating, but football throws up more annoyance than satisfaction at most clubs.

LarsErikKjell · 15/10/2020 8:34 am

I'm just happy to be back in the top league where we belong. If come Christmas we are in any danger of relegation etc I might start to worry, but right now I'm just trying to enjoy the fact we dont have to play the Alloa, Morton, Qots's of this world.

Yes there are things that concern me at the moment, but I'm not going to let them overcome all of my thoughts on United. A lot of the fans who said "I'd be happy with 10th" are now the same fans that are moaning about every little thing at the club. Its classic football fan behaviour.

We beat Aberdeen on Saturday and everyone is happy again. Its a funny old game.

LarsErikKjell · 15/10/2020 8:59 am

Tek wrote:
SuperMario wrote:
Tek wrote:
Looks like the drawbridge has been pulled up.

The one thing I detest, is when someone is having a go at anyone players staff etc, is when they tag the person

At end of the day there human beings like us
I don't condone that myself. Though i have personally never seen any vitriolic stuff tagged towards Tony.

There was some really horrible stuff tagged to players in the relegation season, that i thought was out of order.

Particularly to Blair Spittal.

It's curious timing from Mr Asghar deleting his account. Now that his role is being put under scrutiny.

If every decision I made or didnt make was under the microscope as much as his is I'd never be on Twitter in the first place. For every nice comment he got, he got 5 sarcastic, snidey, moany ones. Some might come out with shit like "be a man and handle it" but I think at the start he was on there to communicate, but I think as time has gone on its probably become more and more difficult for him to get any good feeling from Twitter. Most United fans are genuine, lovely people. But you get a little bunch of keyboard warriors who think its ok to hide behind their phone or laptop and be arseholes. Good decision on his part. The guy has done a lot for our club and I think some forget that at times.

Arabdownsouth · 15/10/2020 9:17 am

LarsErikKjell wrote:
Tek wrote:
SuperMario wrote:

The one thing I detest, is when someone is having a go at anyone players staff etc, is when they tag the person

At end of the day there human beings like us
I don't condone that myself. Though i have personally never seen any vitriolic stuff tagged towards Tony.

There was some really horrible stuff tagged to players in the relegation season, that i thought was out of order.

Particularly to Blair Spittal.

It's curious timing from Mr Asghar deleting his account. Now that his role is being put under scrutiny.

If every decision I made or didnt make was under the microscope as much as his is I'd never be on Twitter in the first place. For every nice comment he got, he got 5 sarcastic, snidey, moany ones. Some might come out with shit like "be a man and handle it" but I think at the start he was on there to communicate, but I think as time has gone on its probably become more and more difficult for him to get any good feeling from Twitter. Most United fans are genuine, lovely people. But you get a little bunch of keyboard warriors who think its ok to hide behind their phone or laptop and be arseholes. Good decision on his part. The guy has done a lot for our club and I think some forget that at times.

Excellent post, fully agree.