Tekel Towers » Levein comments on Souttar

Finn Seemann · 18/9/2018 1:02 pm

What do you think? Personally I think he has a bit of a point. We went from a team that was nurturing young talent to one that over-exposed it due to the McNamara vision. I think United should have deflected the blame on this occasion to Thompson and McNamara whilst also making it clear that we think Levein was ignoring what we did do for Souttar. As it happens I'm still not convinced that he is a great player.

Lancashire-Arab · 18/9/2018 1:12 pm

Not sure what it is Levein is trying to achieve with this comment. The fact is he is a young player who will go through patches of form.

I agree our process of nurturing talent has went very wayward since McNamara and the selling off of any player we received an offer for by our then Chairman has not helped as other player were pushed into the breach.

But I also feel Souttar has to shoulder some of the blame, he wanted to be a midfielder and thought that was his best position and when the coaches etc. didn't agree he wanted to leave and maybe that has impacted his development as he should have been learning his trade at central defence - funny how he has only ever played there for Hearts!

TheShed · 18/9/2018 1:25 pm

Levein is spot on with what he said. McNamara nearly ruined Souttar.

Not sure where the “Souttar wanted to be a midfielder” thing comes from, but there’s plenty of our fans who said that’s where he should play and are now totally in agreement with Levein. Work that one out.

Souttar was always a CH and if int our team should have been played there, problem was we expected him to develop while playing beside clowns like Gunning/Donaldson and then started moving him anywhere when it wasn’t working. We had clueless idiots in the dugout then and still do now.

SlatefordArab · 18/9/2018 2:11 pm

Not sure about this one. I always thought he looked better in center midfield and I always thought that Souttar himself had said that is where he preferred to play.

Maybe he was just completely short of confidence, but in his last good few games for us it looked like he didn't give a fuck - given that we were fighting relegation that was a huge slap in the face to us fans for me.

Arabnophobia · 18/9/2018 2:25 pm

Was he not a striker to start with?

Rocky Raccoon · 18/9/2018 2:43 pm

There was a six month plus or so period where Souttar was fucking rank rotten, anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

18/9/2018 3:56 pm

Rocky Raccoon wrote:
There was a six month plus or so period where Souttar was fucking rank rotten, anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Rank rotten? He'd be 17 at the time.
The guy oozed class & the best thing he did was to exit Tannadice.
Sorry.

Beharder · 18/9/2018 4:12 pm

Levein is partially correct in his comments. Souttar was overplayed as a teenager especially as CH is the most physically demanding position on the park. However other players in the past such as Gough were played out of position at Tannadice and flourished in the role. John Souttar is a decent player, no more, the fact he played for Scotland just shows that we are as short of CHs as any time in the last 50years

RogerTheAlien · 18/9/2018 4:28 pm

He was about 2 stone overweight as well, but I guess United shoved the takeaways down his throat eh.

Let’s not forget that while he looked decent for us, he took the first chance he could to bolt while we were bottom of the league. No loyalty or nothing.

Fuck John Souttar.

Beardy23 · 18/9/2018 5:09 pm

didn't the whole Souttar family fall out with the club after the Stevie Campbell sacking?
The Father wanted John and Harry away asap, but john got an ankle injury and missed out when all his mates were getting big moves.
he deffo spat the dummy as the team went from bad to worse and the fans got on his back because he wasn't
running about kissing the badge

JerryDungle · 18/9/2018 5:27 pm

TheShed wrote:
Levein is spot on with what he said. McNamara nearly ruined Souttar.

Souttar clearly doesn’t think so, given that McNamara’s now his agent.

We as a fan base were far too harsh with Souttar, anyone who says otherwise is at it.

Rocky Raccoon · 18/9/2018 5:32 pm

smedDUm wrote:
Rocky Raccoon wrote:
There was a six month plus or so period where Souttar was fucking rank rotten, anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
Rank rotten? He'd be 17 at the time.
The guy oozed class & the best thing he did was to exit Tannadice.
Sorry.

He oozed class for around two months when every player in the United team oozed class and could've walked into any team in Scotland, after the period when he was showboating and the forwards were hitting four goals every game he was rank, he has only just started to look half decent recently, last season at Hearts he was forever being caught outta position and losing headers every single game, much like he did whilst at Tannadice, that is facts I know from mates I have who are Hearts season ticket holders.

If he gave a fuck in his last six months maybe the fans wouldn't have been on his back, age has nothing to do with attitude.

Billy_Hainey · 18/9/2018 6:18 pm

Club statement aboot this on fishul.

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/5780/CLUB-STATEMENT.html

JerryDungle · 18/9/2018 6:23 pm

smedDUm wrote:
Rocky Raccoon wrote:
There was a six month plus or so period where Souttar was fucking rank rotten, anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
Rank rotten? He'd be 17 at the time.
The guy oozed class & the best thing he did was to exit Tannadice.
Sorry.

Agreed. Folk took a lot of their frustrations at the way things were going out on him. He always had bags of ability, if not the physical attributes at the time. Going to Hearts and playing alongside experienced internationals like Berra and Hughes has brought him along leaps and bounds. He never would have gotten that here playing with Durnan and Donaldson, and with everyone on his back.

Tek · 18/9/2018 7:25 pm

Firstly, I like and have the utmost respect for Craig Levein for the rebuilding job he done at Utd.

And though I partially agree with his comments regards Souttar (he definitely wasn't physically developed at Utd at the time) I also think in another respect he is a bit out of order having a go at the club over this.

David Narey started out at Centre Mid before switching to CH. Maurice Malpas Left Back before becoming a CH. And Gough (as Beharder alluded too) a Right Back before also becoming a (top class) Centre Half. Hegarty a centre forward before becoming a (yes you guessed it) Centre Half and Captain of Utd and Scotland. If it was good enough for them then why not John Souttar?

Fact is it easier to read the game from the back and you realise this once you've played in a different position (particulary if you've had the chance to play in the hustle and bustle of centre mid as Souttar had).

I also think he is over-embellishing just how often Souttar played anything other than Centre Half.

Yes, he played Right Back on his debut at Pittodrie. But that was only because Utd were so down to the bare bones that Houston had not much choice but to throw him in there. I genuinely can't remember him playing Right Back other than that (though maybe i'm wrong).

He said he played Left Back? Again, maybe he did but I can't recall him playing LB (if he did it must only have been once or twice and again probably due to us being injury ridden).

He did play around what? 10 to 15 games at CM but as Slateford said Souttar himself actually said at the time he preffered playing there.

Truth is he was only moved there because he was so shite in the air but decent with the ball at his feet that the fans had been screaming for it and eventually I reckon this influenced McNamara's decision to switch him. It may also of course been partly at Souttar himself's bequest.

He has came on leaps and bounds in the respect of his physique and physicality in the past 2 years and now looks a good prospect at Centre Half, and, yes, this is down to Levein and of course Souttar's desire to improve his game.

But here's the other thing John Souttar's attitude and body language was pretty appalling at times in his last 6 months at the club (supposedly so was his Brother's very latterly) and his rapport with the fans was poor. Remember he claimed that the fans had booed him coming on to the pitch at Tynecastle when in fact no such thing happened? The fans were actually booing Mixu for the sub as we were losing and he brought on a defender for a Striker, that's all.

He was also (as Roger alluded too) a bit overweight latterly. This again is due to Souttar's attitude at the time.

So I am a wee bit miffed at Levein's comments to be quite honest and on this rare occasion I disagree with him and find his comments a bit unnecessary.

That said Utd would have probably been better not responding.Though I am guessing they felt Levein's comments would have been taken as Gospel if they were left unchallenged.

lifesanocean · 18/9/2018 8:55 pm

Mixu played him at right back in his first three or four games in charge.

Tek · 18/9/2018 9:24 pm

lifesanocean wrote:
Mixu played him at right back in his first three or four games in charge.

I'll take your word for it LAO as i genuinely can't remember.

I don't really see a problem with Mixu doing that though tbh.

The team were struggling badly and Souttar was struggling in his position.

It took him out of the firing line at CH and i can see the thinking of playing him at RB and trying to play the ball out on the ground via him.

MockChop · 18/9/2018 10:17 pm

Now I know a lot of you worship the ground Craig Levein walks on and think he is an amazing manager (zero trophies in 21 years) but his comments were daft & uncalled for.

Uniteds response should never have happened. Embarrassing.

No one comes out looking good.

annanarab · 18/9/2018 10:26 pm

Loads of players have played in different positions before going on to star in what becomes their recognised position Gough right back/centre half, Narey midfield/centre back, Malpas midfield/left back/centre back, Heggie, Copland Tom McAdam forwards/centre backs. Ray Stewart and Alex McLeish both played midfield for Scotland. I personally think its sometimes useful for young players to get game time experience in a different position rather than reserve football in the preferred position. I therefore had no qualms about Souttar playing as a def mid or as a right back to get game time. Ideally, IMO, he should have played in a back 3 alongside a couple of decent experienced pro's but in his time here, we didn't have any and his biggest problem was being at a shambolic club about to start an almighty decline under clueless managers. I thought Souttar had enormous potential (greatest thing since Narey) and whilst my current view is a wee bit more moderate, I am pleased to see him holding down a regular place with the league leaders and getting capped for the national side. I just wish we had managed him better and that we were to benefit from the improvements he has made to his game

japanarab · 19/9/2018 4:54 am

Did the Dutch no used to play every player in every position so they would be comfy anywhere(keeper apart)? I'd love to be a player nowadays--Molly coddled little darlings. Obviously there are exceptions who work their bollocks off who coincidentally achieve more than most. Andy Robertson being a prime example--and although disliked by a lot there's not many that work or train harder than Ronaldo(see the Teves story for example). Maybe these little moany shits would be better served by getting their heads down and try and prove their doubters wrong.

Tangy · 19/9/2018 12:36 pm

Agree with JA. Lads like Robertson and Jamie vardy worked hard to get to the top - not everybody has that.

We did expect a lot from a teenager in an area of the pitch where a mistake costs a goal. He was, in my opinion, overly confident which didn't serve him well.

Has Levein made him work harder than McNamara did? Probably

Last edited by Tangy (19/9/2018 12:37 pm)

Ex Houston Arab · 19/9/2018 3:26 pm

japanarab wrote:
Did the Dutch no used to play every player in every position so they would be comfy anywhere(keeper apart)? I'd love to be a player nowadays--Molly coddled little darlings. Obviously there are exceptions who work their bollocks off who coincidentally achieve more than most. Andy Robertson being a prime example--and although disliked by a lot there's not many that work or train harder than Ronaldo(see the Teves story for example). Maybe these little moany shits would be better served by getting their heads down and try and prove their doubters wrong.

Is that not the point though?
Souttar felt the club weren’t developing him correctly, left, went to hearts and is now playing regularly at a club sitting at the top of the table and getting capped for his country.

I don’t think players nowadays have it any easier than they did years ago.
In fact, with the fitness levels required for the modern game it could be argued they have it harder

Finn Seemann · 19/9/2018 3:53 pm

Lots of valid arguments here. My further thoughts are:

Souttar can probably argue he had a tough gig given our predicament at the time, but conversely he got lots of game time.
He can argue he was played out of position, but he seemed content to do so at the time and certainly at centre mid the 'play the ball' aspects of his game have held him in good stead.
We can't argue he hasn't improved since leaving us, but would we have expected any different.
Levein should have kept his mouth shut.
We should have thought a bit longer about our response.
Souttar and Levein are dirty jam tarts now, we've probably spent enough time discussing them.

19/9/2018 4:28 pm

I remember Davie Bowman saying that the attitude of the kids nowadays is sh!te.
He was citing as an example the under 20s at the Excelsior on a Tuesday a'noon when there was a bit of a wind blowing & they weren't really wanting to play.
I'll bet Andy Robertson didn't complain.

Tek · 19/9/2018 10:19 pm

Mark Wilson sticking up for Utd and rubbishing Levein's comments.

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/16887078.hearts-boss-craig-levein-branded-foolish-and-disrespectful-for-john-souttar-dig-at-dundee-united/