One of the big problems is that we are fans rather than (or as well as) customers. If any commercial organisation treated its customers the way ST treats us or provided such shoddy goods or services or gave us such low value for money, they would very quickly lose their customers and go out of business. Football Clubs have this unique brand loyalty which sees them retain a sizeable portion of their customers through bad times on the pitch and bad times in the board room (the back the team not the regime mentality). Possibly if we acted more like customers than fans (and I mean generally over time) rather than as a response to ST's current regime, we might have got a chairman who appointed a proper football manager than a lackie to sell off our assets, we might have had a chairman looking after the clubs and fans interests instead of swanning of to Oz, we might have had some proper professional recruitment, player improvement, performance management leading to a team that can punch its weight and hold their own in the division above. Teks right its our fault for caring and being a fan being rather than the hard nosed customer that many of us are in life away from football. Customers are powerful and can change things. Fans are toothless.

To go back to the original thread - Donaldson has attributes, he can tackle and can win his aerial challenges. His biggest faults are lack of concentration, discipline and attitude. Given he's an expensive resource, our management team should have him in for extra sessions working on his faults so that we can either use him or sell him and our chairman should be on the backs of the management team for not doing their job and improving him and other players.

blackandtangerine wrote:

Beharder wrote:

Tek wrote:

Pretty obvious the fans i refer to tbh.

For clarification though i refer to those who back the club blindly and always try to put a positive spin on everything or defend every decision the club has taken that has seen our club living hand to mouth.

For example.

Thompson swanning off to Oz constantly = 'I don't care what his other business interests are'.

Appointing David Southern = 'Thompson can't run the club single-handedly.Sensible appointment'

Sacking Stevie Cambell = 'Was he really that good anyway?'

Giving Jmac+Co 10% of transfer fees = 'This is common practice in England.I don't have a problem with this'

Not sacking McNamara in the Summer of 2015 = 'Jackie deserves a clean-slate'

I could go on and on and on.

This acceptance of ever decreasing standards and an inability to question decisions made no matter how plainly destructive they have been have left us where we are.




 

agree with some of that TEK particularly around the handling of JM  who has gone on to prove his incompetence at York.but I stand by my comments about Steve Campbell. If he was such an asset why is he not employed  by a top club .
 

Maybe a part of his settlement with utd ?? Maybe hes to stay away from bigger clubs for a set time.

Im just surmising btw but that could be a reason.   
 

 thats a possibility but why would he accept a clause like this unless he deserved to be dismissed

Tangy wrote:

Tek wrote:

Tangy wrote:

what do you class as 'backing the club'? season ticket sales? shirt sales or just people who are positive about the season? genuinely interested.
 

Pretty obvious the fans i refer to tbh.

For clarification though i refer to those who back the club blindly and always try to put a positive spin on everything or defend every decision the club has taken that has seen our club living hand to mouth.

For example.

Thompson swanning off to Oz constantly = 'I don't care what his other business interests are'.

Appointing David Southern = 'Thompson can't run the club single-handedly.Sensible appointment'

Sacking Stevie Cambell = 'Was he really that good anyway?'

Giving Jmac+Co 10% of transfer fees = 'This is common practice in England.I don't have a problem with this'

Not sacking McNamara in the Summer of 2015 = 'Jackie deserves a clean-slate'

I could go on and on and on.

This acceptance of ever decreasing standards and an inability to question decisions made no matter how plainly destructive they have been have left us where we are.




 

has anybody said all the above? i don't think you would find anybody who has????

 

Yeah they have on here and other places.

Tek wrote:

CCX2 2010 wrote:

What have we become?


The scary thing is that we have started accepting below par players like him.

Correct.

Lets be honest years ago we were laughing at Dundee for signi g the likes of Lewis Toshney and Coll Donaldson whilst we had entertainers like Conway,GMS,Ciftci,Swanson etc etc.

The fans have to get back to DEMANDING a certain standard of player.

The fans who back the clubs every decision have been complicit in the continuing downward spiral.


 

When has this ever happened? 

And if this is how you feel, why not take action yourself? It's very easy to sit back and blame others for apathy and acceptance.

That works both ways. Some folk get dismissed as "happy clappers" just because they are not on a downer about absolutely everything that's going on with the club.

When have the fans ever demanded a certain types of player? Other than on forums like this, which with all due respect, is like pissing into the wind.

 

Donaldson might have to play at Dens so Durnan can go up front.

Think we should actually play him v Cowdenbeath and maybe even Dundee with for sale may let on him if he has decent game just might get picked up by someone

Donaldson isnt as bad as some think.

annanarab wrote:

One of the big problems is that we are fans rather than (or as well as) customers. If any commercial organisation treated its customers the way ST treats us or provided such shoddy goods or services or gave us such low value for money, they would very quickly lose their customers and go out of business. Football Clubs have this unique brand loyalty which sees them retain a sizeable portion of their customers through bad times on the pitch and bad times in the board room (the back the team not the regime mentality). Possibly if we acted more like customers than fans (and I mean generally over time) rather than as a response to ST's current regime, we might have got a chairman who appointed a proper football manager than a lackie to sell off our assets, we might have had a chairman looking after the clubs and fans interests instead of swanning of to Oz, we might have had some proper professional recruitment, player improvement, performance management leading to a team that can punch its weight and hold their own in the division above. Teks right its our fault for caring and being a fan being rather than the hard nosed customer that many of us are in life away from football. Customers are powerful and can change things. Fans are toothless.

To go back to the original thread - Donaldson has attributes, he can tackle and can win his aerial challenges. His biggest faults are lack of concentration, discipline and attitude. Given he's an expensive resource, our management team should have him in for extra sessions working on his faults so that we can either use him or sell him and our chairman should be on the backs of the management team for not doing their job and improving him and other players.

 
Excellent post; clear and well explained point of view. Thanks annanarab. If only this was how player development actually worked. Too many resources are thrown at physical development but actually working on obvious weaknesses (positioning, choosing when & how to tackle, when to pass into space or to the player or even just why blootering the ball up the park is actually just a waste of possession) is anathema to Scottish clubs.

tangerine terror wrote:

Dyce_arab wrote:

tangerine terror wrote:

Donaldson isnt as bad as some think.

You being serious? 
 

Yeah, the main problem with him is he's on too high a wage.

 
No, the problem is he can't defend, tackle, pass, has a bad attitude, is hopeless positionally & all round pish.  What he earns really doesn't matter one little bit.