Tekel Towers » Very worrying times...

Tek · 19/4/2017 6:21 pm

We have essentially EVERY asset outwith the playing staff now used as collateral against loan agreements.

These assets far exceed the off-set cost of the loans from Cath Thompson incidentally.

http://www.fans-united.org.uk/dufc-posts-four-new-charges-at-companies-house/

bowers · 19/4/2017 7:09 pm

And remember these loans are to get us through the season!! Which he said the other week

Bleeding money.

Last edited by bowers (19/4/2017 7:10 pm)

TheShed · 19/4/2017 7:42 pm

Clubs at tipping point. Nothing left to offer in terms of security, so either

1. The current owners start running things properly, paying off debts on time, not running at a loss or
2. Admin forces his hand to leave and the club loses all its assets (not too much of a problem if you're the person with security over them is it?)
3. He sells up, living up to his word that he'll take £1 and we can all move on

Have I missed it or has it all gone quiet with the boy from the US, what we offering him as security?

HeggyHandshake · 19/4/2017 8:10 pm

Paid all the debts back to the Thompsons last year, they give the Club the loan back securing every single thing the Club own against it.

David Southern was the witness signing it off as well, remember him???

Earning his big bucks.

Arab_plumber · 19/4/2017 8:17 pm

Are they covering their arses here and being very underhand?

19/4/2017 8:41 pm

Not sure it changes much as our main asset (Tannadice) has had loans secured on it going back before the Thompsons.

What is interesting is the loam from America which was apparently going to be secured on Gussie Park - am assuming that's dead in the water now and if that's the case then things will get quite tight finance wise

Not sure the security would be overvalued ad it'd be based on the land value at Gussie etc - not worth much I'd guess.

TheShed · 19/4/2017 8:48 pm

What it does change is that the family now have security over assets which could potentially become theirs in the event of admin. To me that's not a good position to be in when it may actually financially benefit the owner of a business to put it in admin.

bowers · 19/4/2017 8:53 pm

Did cath thompson have security over previous loans on stadium or that? Did any other board member? Or was it only the bank?
What % is the interest?

blackandtangerine · 19/4/2017 9:22 pm

Canadian Arab wrote:
I don't think for a second that there's anything underhand going on here. But there's no doubt that the finances are a mess and I think there's probably a bit of panic behind the scenes as I'm not sure anyone has a good strategy for getting us out of this. Shifting deck chairs on the Titanic.

Maybe not underhand but very, very worrying.

Tek · 19/4/2017 9:38 pm

scarpia wrote:
Not sure the security would be overvalued ad it'd be based on the land value at Gussie etc - not worth much I'd guess.

Scarpia,from what i hear the GA Arena brings us in a 6 figure sum alone EACH YEAR.

I think it would be worth Fans United or the like enquiring about an independent auditor pricing that land,the assets and their worth.

As my (admittedly rudimentary) calculations in my head price all those assets at a lot more than the loan figure.

The fear for me is that I've always had the belief that Admin (or worse) would be an absolute last resort to the Thompson's as it would render their shares worthless.

But if they are (for all intents and purposes) getting their loans back (and then considerably more) in the event of Admin or an insolvency event then this off-sets their financial risk.

Billy_Hainey · 19/4/2017 9:43 pm

scarpia wrote:
...........................
What is interesting is the loam from America which was apparently going to be secured on Gussie Park - am assuming that's dead in the water now .................

Unsecured loan mibbee ?

Dugout · 19/4/2017 9:53 pm

Tek wrote:
scarpia wrote:
Not sure the security would be overvalued ad it'd be based on the land value at Gussie etc - not worth much I'd guess.
Scarpia,from what i hear the GA Arena brings us in a 6 figure sum alone EACH YEAR.

I think it would be worth Fans United or the like enquiring about an independent auditor pricing that land,the assets and their worth.

As my (admittedly rudimentary) calculations in my head price all those assets at a lot more than the loan figure.

The fear for me is that I've always had the belief that Admin (or worse) would be an absolute last resort to the Thompson's as it would render their shares worthless.

But if they are (for all intents and purposes) getting their loans back (and then considerably more) in the event of Admin or an insolvency event then this off-sets their financial risk.

Gussie has recently been independently valued at £1 million

Dugout · 19/4/2017 9:55 pm

The club is now defunct of any assets and there is no business plan to address the frightening issues we face. Plan is to borrow and hope an ex player attracts a hand on fee
Club is finished

Last edited by Dugout (19/4/2017 9:55 pm)

David_Blunkett · 19/4/2017 9:55 pm

Q. How do United cover operating losses?
A. Sell players!

Q. How many have we sold this season?
A. None!

Q. How do we counter this?
A. Mortgage a'hin aff!

Q. Are costs down this season, that'll cover repayments?
A. Probably, we're saved!

Q. But surely turnover is massively down as well.
A. Oh....

Q. Who, or what to we have left to sell?
A....................

Last edited by David_Blunket (19/4/2017 9:55 pm)

Tek · 19/4/2017 10:15 pm

Dugout wrote:
Tek wrote:
scarpia wrote:
Not sure the security would be overvalued ad it'd be based on the land value at Gussie etc - not worth much I'd guess.
Scarpia,from what i hear the GA Arena brings us in a 6 figure sum alone EACH YEAR.

I think it would be worth Fans United or the like enquiring about an independent auditor pricing that land,the assets and their worth.

As my (admittedly rudimentary) calculations in my head price all those assets at a lot more than the loan figure.

The fear for me is that I've always had the belief that Admin (or worse) would be an absolute last resort to the Thompson's as it would render their shares worthless.

But if they are (for all intents and purposes) getting their loans back (and then considerably more) in the event of Admin or an insolvency event then this off-sets their financial risk.

Gussie has recently been independently valued at £1 million

That was roughly what i figured it would be worth (tied in with the car park).

When you add in the club shop and the printers building we are talking a substantial profit on that loan.

TheShed · 19/4/2017 10:27 pm

Tek wrote:
Dugout wrote:
Tek wrote:

Scarpia,from what i hear the GA Arena brings us in a 6 figure sum alone EACH YEAR.

I think it would be worth Fans United or the like enquiring about an independent auditor pricing that land,the assets and their worth.

As my (admittedly rudimentary) calculations in my head price all those assets at a lot more than the loan figure.

The fear for me is that I've always had the belief that Admin (or worse) would be an absolute last resort to the Thompson's as it would render their shares worthless.

But if they are (for all intents and purposes) getting their loans back (and then considerably more) in the event of Admin or an insolvency event then this off-sets their financial risk.

Gussie has recently been independently valued at £1 million
That was roughly what i figured it would be worth (tied in with the car park).

When you add in the club shop and the printers building we are talking a substantial profit on that loan.

And the way the club is currently being run means there's only one way to achieve that profit, admin.

Dugout · 19/4/2017 10:29 pm

Has far as I am aware that DID NOT include the car park😡

Tek · 19/4/2017 11:21 pm

TheShed wrote:
Tek wrote:
Dugout wrote:

Gussie has recently been independently valued at £1 million
That was roughly what i figured it would be worth (tied in with the car park).

When you add in the club shop and the printers building we are talking a substantial profit on that loan.

And the way the club is currently being run means there's only one way to achieve that profit, admin.

Exactly mate.

As i say,very worrying stuff.

Tek · 19/4/2017 11:28 pm

Dugout wrote:
Has far as I am aware that DID NOT include the car park😡

I think people underestimate the cost of a piece of land such as that tbh (the car park i mean).

A building contractor could easily throw up a block of flats on such a piece of land.

I enquired to the price of a very similiar piece of land in a previous job and was quoted around 300k.

This was in a suburban part of East Kilbride too (a new town).

You take into account it's in a city like Dundee and you could be talking an even higher price.

Again though my calculations are rudimentary guesses.But not too far off what you have confirmed.

RRDH · 20/4/2017 12:18 am

David_Blunket wrote:
Q. How do United cover operating losses?
A. Sell players!

Q. How many have we sold this season?
A. None!

Q. How do we counter this?
A. Mortgage a'hin aff!

Q. Are costs down this season, that'll cover repayments?
A. Probably, we're saved!

Q. But surely turnover is massively down as well.
A. Oh....

Q. Who, or what to we have left to sell?
A....................

Frightening how close to the truth this is.

blackandtangerine · 20/4/2017 4:16 am

Club will be desperate Robertson and Armstrong are sold in the summer and they get a slice of transfers.

TheShed · 20/4/2017 6:12 am

blackandtangerine wrote:
Club will be desperate Robertson and Armstrong are sold in the summer and they get a slice of transfers.

I've heard there's a deal done for Robertson to go to Liverpool. Not certain it's true, but certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was.

20/4/2017 6:13 am

bowers wrote:
Did cath thompson have security over previous loans on stadium or that? Did any other board member? Or was it only the bank?
What % is the interest?

No - the various Thompson family loans were unsecured.

The reason Gussie was not used as security was that the Scottish Sports Council had a floating charge over the property (presumably as a condition of a grant or loan to help develop?)

That charge was satisfied in January iirc allowing Gussie to be used as security.

blackandtangerine · 20/4/2017 7:33 am

scarpia wrote:
bowers wrote:
Did cath thompson have security over previous loans on stadium or that? Did any other board member? Or was it only the bank?
What % is the interest?
No - the various Thompson family loans were unsecured.

The reason Gussie was not used as security was that the Scottish Sports Council had a floating charge over the property (presumably as a condition of a grant or loan to help develop?)

That charge was satisfied in January iirc allowing Gussie to be used as security.

Would that explain how club spunked money on gussie instead of waiting for funding which , i believe, united for all would have obtained?

PatReilly · 20/4/2017 8:06 am

Having little knowledge when it comes to financial analysis, the question which concerns me surrounds the timing of this revelation.

The board need the fans supporting the club right now, as they are expecting us to:-

a) back the team as we attempt to negotiate difficult play off games

and

b) purchase season tickets for the next campaign.

Why, at this point rather than the close season, has this move been made? It is incumbent on the board to make a statement before this weekend to attempt to allay the fears of the support.