Tekel Towers » If nobody buys Thompson out

Beardy23 · 14/3/2017 1:15 pm

SlatefordArab wrote:
scarpia wrote:
SlatefordArab wrote:
Other than thon boy in Edinburgh who has security over Tannadice, what other creditors do the club have?
The only person with security over Tannadice is Hugh Duncan.

The only other loan that I am aware of is the £200k one that is apparently in the latest accounts and in the absence of any info to the contrary will be unsecured - will need to wait on the accounts going on-line to get more detail

Yep, that's the point I was getting at - as far as I am aware, and I am more than happy to be corrected on this as I am in no way a financial expert, but if Hugh Duncan and the Thompson clan are the only creditors then surely admin is unlikely?

as long as the baldy snake is paying the PAYE...

TheShed · 14/3/2017 4:50 pm

scarpia wrote:
SlatefordArab wrote:
scarpia wrote:

The only person with security over Tannadice is Hugh Duncan.

The only other loan that I am aware of is the £200k one that is apparently in the latest accounts and in the absence of any info to the contrary will be unsecured - will need to wait on the accounts going on-line to get more detail

Yep, that's the point I was getting at - as far as I am aware, and I am more than happy to be corrected on this as I am in no way a financial expert, but if Hugh Duncan and the Thompson clan are the only creditors then surely admin is unlikely?
The Thompson family are not creditors (as far as I'm aware).

As you say the current debt situation makes an insolvency event unlikely imo.

I get what your saying, but if we keep racking up large losses and need more debt to sustain them where does that come from?

If no one is willing to put that money up, then we won't be able to pay wages/bills and surely then an insolvency event is inevitable?

Bottom line that anyone running the club needs to get right is we cannot keep spending more than we bring in. Unfortunately the emotional nature of the football business makes it difficult to hugely alter income from the main customer sources, so the focus has to be on controlling expenditure, wherever that leaves us on the park.

Tangy · 14/3/2017 5:22 pm

Out of interest, are the losses shown perhaps due, in part, to the fact we were budgeting for a place in the top 6? A big difference in 6 league places and home games against aberdeen, celtic etc.was it right to budget for top 6 - yes. We were constantly performing at that level.

Not saying that's the only reason for the losses but it's got to play a part

annanarab · 14/3/2017 6:20 pm

Fans (who are really customers) have power. They and not Thompson keep the club going through their purchase of season tickets, pay-at-the-gate receipts, programmes, refreshments, hospitality, merchandise, azone etc.

It is incredible just how poor a service fans/customers have received in recent years from (a) the offering on the pitch and (b) the contempt shown towards them by the owners who have used the club as a cash cow.

I am amazed at the blind loyalty of United fans/customers who continue to invest in a set-up which has absolutely no regard for them. I don't think you would see such loyalty in retail, manufacturing, entertainment or any other environment..

Refusing to contribute to the above in future would bring Thompson to the table as he still wants to retain an asset that he can sell or generate an income rather than hand it over to Administrators which would be his only alternative or than putting in money himself which he is not going to do.

My view is rather than go for protests which I don't think will be successful, a campaign needs to be mobilised for with-holding cash until Thompson comes up with something acceptable to the fans. At this stage I am not suggesting a full on boycott but the making preparations for a boycott to bring Thompson to the table and if he doesn't oblige we AND Thompson run the risk of Administration. Dont think he has the stomach to lose the asset. The mere threat of this action will likely see his asset reduce in value as well making it easier if there is someone out there willing to take over the club.

Fans do have power - its a question of whether they chose to use it

JerryDungle · 14/3/2017 10:37 pm

Annan's suggestion is as sensible an idea to implement change as I've seen from United fans. These protests are obviously ignored with contempt by our illustrious leader, and do nothing other than to cause division amongst the support.

If this Fans United group want to implement change, or any other group for that, then perhaps an idea would be to contact all season ticket holders, perhaps creating a form that can be filled out online, for disgruntled supporters to state their intention to withhold season ticket money for next season, with a section outlining their reason for doing so, this data can then be correlated, and put to the board with a demand for transparency about their plans for Dundee United moving forward.

TheShed · 14/3/2017 11:18 pm

JerryDungle wrote:
Annan's suggestion is as sensible an idea to implement change as I've seen from United fans. These protests are obviously ignored with contempt by our illustrious leader, and do nothing other than to cause division amongst the support.

If this Fans United group want to implement change, or any other group for that, then perhaps an idea would be to contact all season ticket holders, perhaps creating a form that can be filled out online, for disgruntled supporters to state their intention to withhold season ticket money for next season, with a section outlining their reason for doing so, this data can then be correlated, and put to the board with a demand for transparency about their plans for Dundee United moving forward.

They wouldn't be able to get all ST holders info, unless the club gave it to them which would be a data protection breach.

They could put it out there and ask people to fill it in, but how many would? Would it be accurate?

I'm not in the loop really, but I believe there are still things being set up and once they are the info everyone wants will become more apparent. Sometimes it's best to wait until something's ready before shouting about it.

Rick Dagless · 14/3/2017 11:24 pm

Canadian Arab wrote:
I get that people are very unhappy with how things have been going for quite some time. All of us are unhappy.

So some of those who are unhappy form a group, and their take-home message seems to be:

"We are very unhappy about how things have been going.
We don't know what the solution is and we can't offer any suggestions on how to fix things.
But we demand that the Chairman leaves, with no succession plan in place.
All those who agree with our non-plan should join us to shout stuff and refuse to buy season tickets and call the Chairman insulting names, because we think that's the best way to get someone else to want to be the Chairman and plough their own cash into the club.
Cheers."

Have I left anything out?

Yes.

This group only went public 5 days ago. They have set the ball rolling to say they want change. However they are yet to state their plans, I assume they intend to do this at their meeting that's been suggested.

Nothing is going to happen overnight but there is now a group being formed that wants to instigate change at the club, yet there are those who although say they too are unhappy with the chairman, scoff at the efforts of this group.

What should we do? just accept the club is currently in its worst position in over 50 years with a chairman who doesn't want to put money in or even be there?

Arabnophobia · 14/3/2017 11:45 pm

TheShed wrote:
JerryDungle wrote:
Annan's suggestion is as sensible an idea to implement change as I've seen from United fans. These protests are obviously ignored with contempt by our illustrious leader, and do nothing other than to cause division amongst the support.

If this Fans United group want to implement change, or any other group for that, then perhaps an idea would be to contact all season ticket holders, perhaps creating a form that can be filled out online, for disgruntled supporters to state their intention to withhold season ticket money for next season, with a section outlining their reason for doing so, this data can then be correlated, and put to the board with a demand for transparency about their plans for Dundee United moving forward.

They wouldn't be able to get all ST holders info, unless the club gave it to them which would be a data protection breach.

They could put it out there and ask people to fill it in, but how many would? Would it be accurate?

I'm not in the loop really, but I believe there are still things being set up and once they are the info everyone wants will become more apparent. Sometimes it's best to wait until something's ready before shouting about it.

Agree with the last sentence TheShed.
Is that aimed at FU or those asking questions?

TheShed · 14/3/2017 11:45 pm

You know what, whether folk agree with the methods of the group or not every Utd supporter needs to try and influence change in whatever way they believe is right.

It would be fantastic if this could be done in 1 big group, but some people are never going to be on board with that for their own reasons and that's fair enough.

I didn't renew ST's this season as I felt the current regime weren't treating fans (or the club) with the respect it deserved - my personal choice, as it is for anyone that thinks it's the way to go this summer.

If you think e-mails/letters could influence things then please do that.

If you want to protest during a game please do, or before or after whatever you want.

All I'm saying if you believe change is needed, make sure the club can see that in whatever way you want, please don't sit back and do nothing or this time next year we won't have a club. It is that serious.

TheShed · 14/3/2017 11:49 pm

Arabnophobia wrote:
TheShed wrote:
JerryDungle wrote:
Annan's suggestion is as sensible an idea to implement change as I've seen from United fans. These protests are obviously ignored with contempt by our illustrious leader, and do nothing other than to cause division amongst the support.

If this Fans United group want to implement change, or any other group for that, then perhaps an idea would be to contact all season ticket holders, perhaps creating a form that can be filled out online, for disgruntled supporters to state their intention to withhold season ticket money for next season, with a section outlining their reason for doing so, this data can then be correlated, and put to the board with a demand for transparency about their plans for Dundee United moving forward.

They wouldn't be able to get all ST holders info, unless the club gave it to them which would be a data protection breach.

They could put it out there and ask people to fill it in, but how many would? Would it be accurate?

I'm not in the loop really, but I believe there are still things being set up and once they are the info everyone wants will become more apparent. Sometimes it's best to wait until something's ready before shouting about it.

Agree with the last sentence TheShed.
Is that aimed at FU or those asking questions?

I mean folk are rightly asking questions of FU, aims, methods etc and they're maybe not quite ready to answer them all yet until certain things are in place. Time will tell, but the vibe I'm getting of the group is that it'll be a good project to support.

PatReilly · 14/3/2017 11:53 pm

TheShed wrote:
You know what, whether folk agree with the methods of the group or not every Utd supporter needs to try and influence change in whatever way they believe is right.

It would be fantastic if this could be done in 1 big group, but some people are never going to be on board with that for their own reasons and that's fair enough.

I didn't renew ST's this season as I felt the current regime weren't treating fans (or the club) with the respect it deserved - my personal choice, as it is for anyone that thinks it's the way to go this summer.

If you think e-mails/letters could influence things then please do that.

If you want to protest during a game please do, or before or after whatever you want.

All I'm saying if you believe change is needed, make sure the club can see that in whatever way you want, please don't sit back and do nothing or this time next year we won't have a club. It is that serious.

I'd agree with you, apart from the bits italicised.

Protests during games in my view are unhelpful, while I reckon, without evidence, the second bit is over-dramatic.

TheShed · 15/3/2017 12:01 am

PatReilly wrote:
TheShed wrote:
You know what, whether folk agree with the methods of the group or not every Utd supporter needs to try and influence change in whatever way they believe is right.

It would be fantastic if this could be done in 1 big group, but some people are never going to be on board with that for their own reasons and that's fair enough.

I didn't renew ST's this season as I felt the current regime weren't treating fans (or the club) with the respect it deserved - my personal choice, as it is for anyone that thinks it's the way to go this summer.

If you think e-mails/letters could influence things then please do that.

If you want to protest during a game please do, or before or after whatever you want.

All I'm saying if you believe change is needed, make sure the club can see that in whatever way you want, please don't sit back and do nothing or this time next year we won't have a club. It is that serious.
I'd agree with you, apart from the bits italicised.

Protests during games in my view are unhelpful, while I reckon, without evidence, the second bit is over-dramatic.

Pat, I know the conversation that took place where the chairman said we needed money to come in or we'd run out by a certain date, we got that loan in 2 days before this. At the point he said it there was no solution in place and he was desperate.

I get that folk just see just some boy on a forum saying it, but I'm not in the habit of making stuff up. Folk can believe it or not, I'm not gonna argue about it, I just want the club to survive and eventually get back to where I believe it should be on the park.

Arabnophobia · 15/3/2017 12:05 am

More people might be on board if they have a better understanding of what being on board means and what the plan is.

The folk who nip away at those behind them(timewise) on turning(on those in charge) risk loosing them and must remember the 1st priority is Dundee United for most and few fans out there without a circle of informed mates to egg them on won't turn against their team or risk hurting their team without good 'reason' or a plan that seems like it has a chance of a better outcome than a risk of further catastrophic failure.

Agree with Pat's post on the 2 parts he highlights.

I think we have an opportunity to do something but worry about how it's relayed to the support due to the start it's had.

Hope we can continue to discuss without alienating those who could well be on board.

avonrep · 15/3/2017 12:08 am

Can anyone tell me why you have to be vetted to join a facebook page?

PatReilly · 15/3/2017 12:08 am

Fair enough, TheShed. But to be convinced, some fans might need more detail, such as who ST said this to, and how you know, if he didn't say this to you.

I too want us to be in a better place. I'll leave it at that.

PatReilly · 15/3/2017 12:11 am

avonrep wrote:

Can anyone tell me why you have to be vetted to join a facebook page?

You should be sectioned rather than vetted for wishing to join a Facebook page. Or for using Twitter.

My opinion, of course.

Tek · 15/3/2017 12:20 am

Pat,do you not like Twitter?

You've never said.

PatReilly · 15/3/2017 12:26 am

Twitter: it's the name itself, but it's got so many folk into career and personal difficulties.

I fuck up enough without writing it down to be used against me at a later date.

avonrep · 15/3/2017 12:27 am

PatReilly wrote:
avonrep wrote:

Can anyone tell me why you have to be vetted to join a facebook page?
You should be sectioned rather than vetted for wishing to join a Facebook page. Or for using Twitter.

My opinion, of course.

Ken Pat, but find it ludicrous to join FU you have to be vetted I also heard, but it could be a rumour that the meeting will be a closed door event, this on top of the committee that's voted its self on, doesn't sound to open to me, too much cloak and dagger for me at the moment

Tek · 15/3/2017 12:33 am

PatReilly wrote:
Twitter: it's the name itself, but it's got so many folk into career and personal difficulties.

I fuck up enough without writing it down to be used against me at a later date.

If used correctly it's a great,informative and funny app imo.

But i must confess my timeline is a depressing read these days due to Utd and fans at each others throats every other day.

Making me read it less and less actually.

TheShed · 15/3/2017 12:42 am

Tek wrote:
PatReilly wrote:
Twitter: it's the name itself, but it's got so many folk into career and personal difficulties.

I fuck up enough without writing it down to be used against me at a later date.

If used correctly it's a great,informative and funny app imo.

But i must confess my timeline is a depressing read these days due to Utd and fans at each others throats every other day.

Making me read it less and less actually.

It's ok TEK, indyref2 will clog the Utd stuff out soon enough.

PatReilly · 15/3/2017 12:51 am

I'll tell you another terrible word: 'poo'. Folk of my age never heard of that word, yet so far I've had six bowel cancer screening tests with leaflets using 'poo' instead of the more acceptable 'shite' or 'jobbie'.

The whole world's fucked.

TheShed · 15/3/2017 12:53 am

PatReilly wrote:
I'll tell you another terrible word: 'poo'. Folk of my age never heard of that word, yet so far I've had six bowel cancer screening tests with leaflets using 'poo' instead of the more acceptable 'shite' or 'jobbie'.

The whole world's fucked.

You're right, Trump, Brexit and now poo. Haha

Arab_plumber · 15/3/2017 12:56 am

SlatefordArab wrote:
scarpia wrote:
SlatefordArab wrote:
Other than thon boy in Edinburgh who has security over Tannadice, what other creditors do the club have?
The only person with security over Tannadice is Hugh Duncan.

The only other loan that I am aware of is the £200k one that is apparently in the latest accounts and in the absence of any info to the contrary will be unsecured - will need to wait on the accounts going on-line to get more detail

Yep, that's the point I was getting at - as far as I am aware, and I am more than happy to be corrected on this as I am in no way a financial expert, but if Hugh Duncan and the Thompson clan are the only creditors then surely admin is unlikely?

Mr Duncan is 79 and god forbid just say he doesn't last much longer and the family then want the money back where does that leave the club?

In a very bad situation I'd say

We're running at a huge weekly loss and have already been bailed out to get to the end of the season and we'll be spending next seasons season ticket money from April onwards!!

Now remember we sold 4000 adult season tickets plus had plenty big games where fans paid cash and yet we're still skint!!!

Boys wake up Administration is a very real possibility and that's one of the reasons for Fans United starting up

David_Blunkett · 15/3/2017 12:58 am

I'm a member of the FU group on Facebook and yes, initially there was a lot of angry responses from fans to the reaction Fridays protest got and in the days after there were also a few posts name calling those that disagreed or rubbished the group.

However the group quadrupled in size almost overnight in the lead upto and after the game and it needed moderator intervention of sorts as folk just thought it was a place to vent it went from a very controlled group, to a far bigger group and I think we can all agree it's a very emotive subject.

There now seems to be a real acceptance from most that no matter how pissed off you might be with someone, how much they might try and discredit the group, or even just disagree with the group, you have to the the bigger person and not respond with names or insults, folk will sign up see this stuff and immediately be put off joining,

The right to protest...the right to assembly......no laws or rules were being broken so why not let the guys have their two minute thing then make your feelings known if need be at the end, you don't shout out during a minutes silence if some disrupts it, you make your feelings known as the whistle sounds.

I held my flyer aloft on Friday, nobody around me said anything towards me, some folk were booing a bit but most let me get on with it.

If i didn't believe in the what the group were trying to do, I just wouldn't join in, same as if there's a minutes applause these days for some arsehole, I just don't clap along.

Last edited by David_Blunket (15/3/2017 1:00 am)