Tekel Towers » Atrocity Thread

Foo Kin Twat · 14/11/2015 9:30 am

I said it when the Twin Towers came down 14 years ago and I'll say it again now. For the rest of our lives and our children's lives, we are going to be in a war that cannot be won against a fanatical and warped "enemy" (and a tiny minority of a peaceful religion) not obvious to any of us and who don't play by "the rules" of the Geneva Convention etc. Can't say I was enamoured at the news that any one of us can have our Internet History accessed without warrant, but when you see what happened in Paris last night, it's hard to argue against it. Anything that can give a heads up to the security services about anything untoward has to be a good thing, so long as it is only for those purposes.

Tek · 14/11/2015 9:43 am

The problem is we don't really even know who the enemy is?

I've heard people say "just nuke them"!....nuke where exactly?

We know that generally ISIS are trained in Syria, yes. But do we nuke Syria and kill millions of innocents? And a country that borders a country in the EU?

The other thing is we don't understand the enemy.

In the past we encountered terrorist organisation's like the IRA and ETA. And although these groups acts we're utterly appalling they had a "cause",it was known what they wanted and as such there was room for negotation. No matter how small it was.

What do ISIS want? What is their end game? Bearing in mind that many muslims are dying in these attacks too.

I just can't see an end to this. The situation in the middle East has spiralled out of control thanks to the actions of Bush and Blair.

Another dark night for humanity.

lifesanocean · 14/11/2015 9:46 am

I rarely post about these issues on threads like this or on other social media. I actually teach a unit on terrorism at work. I honestly think if I started typing on them I'd find it difficult to stop. Poverty is at the root of it. Religion is also part of it but for me is used by these people as a convenient smokescreen for what is essentially people making a grab for power in their part of the world. These are people who claim to be fighting against dictators, such as Assad, but all they really want to do is replace one dictatorship with their own one. Why? To get their hands on the resources their country has, which are scarcer than they should be given that most have oil. However, until world trade rules are made into a more level playing field, people in these countries can't flourish and the power-hungry lunatics will continue to attract damaged and impressionable young people to their cause both in their own countries and from the West. Religion offers these people some sort of hope and a promise of something better; martyrdom. False hope of course, but they are deluded into that way of thinking. Desperation, anger, fear and false hope make people do crazy things.

Ordinary people in Paris are completely innocent in this. The notion that because we can vote we are somehow responsible is complete bullshit. Its horrific, and heartbreaking as are the images of refugees fleeing, as are those drone images of Syria completely ruined or flattened. It can't go on, but goodness knows what the solution is. Tackling world poverty would be a start. Fuck knows how you do that though.

Last edited by lifesanocean (14/11/2015 12:05 pm)

Foo Kin Twat · 14/11/2015 10:12 am

Yep. Before the West meddled in the Middle East and North Africa so obviously in the last quarter of a century, there is no doubt that things were brutal under the regimes of the likes of Hussein in Iraq and Gadaffi in Libya and that all this bubbled away inside their borders (and sometimes outwith as in Lockerbie). But those evil genies had the corks firmly in their golden lamps. Now the corks are well and truly out and humanity, respect and tolerance cannot fight barbarism, depravity and the complete indifference to the value of human life.

PatReilly · 14/11/2015 12:15 pm

I've got a lot of thoughts about this situation, but I'll keep most of them to myself, except to say I find it peculiar that Saudi Arabia continues to be seen as an ally of the western countries.

huntedbyafreak · 14/11/2015 1:24 pm

Tek wrote:
The problem is we don't really even know who the enemy is?

I've heard people say "just nuke them"!....nuke where exactly?

We know that generally ISIS are trained in Syria, yes. But do we nuke Syria and kill millions of innocents? And a country that borders a country in the EU?

The other thing is we don't understand the enemy.

In the past we encountered terrorist organisation's like the IRA and ETA. And although these groups acts we're utterly appalling they had a "cause",it was known what they wanted and as such there was room for negotation. No matter how small it was.

What do ISIS want? What is their end game? Bearing in mind that many muslims are dying in these attacks too.

I just can't see an end to this. The situation in the middle East has spiralled out of control thanks to the actions of Bush and Blair.

Another dark night for humanity.

Turkey is not in the EU mate. It's applied though. There is no way in earth they'll ever let Turkey in the EU now.

I'd imagine attacks like this will see the end of free movement of EU citizens TBH. I also reckon that attacks like this will aid the campaign to leave the EU in the UK. It'll be used by some to say we need to protect our borders. Even though the 7/7 Bombings were by Uk citizens and I'd hazard a guess the Paris attacks are by French citizens.

No doubt we'll start to bomb Syria now, even though we're doing so already. I can't see an end to this. Saddam, Assad and Gadaffi were horrible dictators but we should have left well alone tbh. There were already fundamentalist nut jobs in these countries but we've helped to create even more.

It's utterly depressing.

Last edited by huntedbyafreak (14/11/2015 1:26 pm)

Foo Kin Twat · 14/11/2015 8:04 pm

SKY News carried one of the best explanations from Kim Howells that I have heard in the last 20 mins about all the different factions etc. This is him:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/this-could-been-london-cardiff-10444144

huntedbyafreak · 14/11/2015 9:28 pm

Depends what 'freedoms' they want to restrict.

Foo Kin Twat · 15/11/2015 9:47 am

That's footage now emerged of the exact moment in the gig when the shooting started in The Bataclan........chilling imagining how scary that must have been

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/nov/15/paris-attacks-footage-shows-moment-shooting-starts-in-bataclan-theatre-video

huntedbyafreak · 15/11/2015 3:26 pm

Jeez

Edmond Dantes · 15/11/2015 8:33 pm

PatReilly wrote:
I've got a lot of thoughts about this situation, but I'll keep most of them to myself, except to say I find it peculiar that Saudi Arabia continues to be seen as an ally of the western countries.

spot on pat.

Tek · 15/11/2015 8:55 pm

The two terrorists who died in the Bataclan were from Brussels.

Their agents are dotted all over Europe and the Middle East.

We need more sophisticated methods of bringing this organisation down than just aimlessly bombing Syria.

A network of undercover agents required as MI5 deployed against the IRA.

A brave man or woman who volunteers for that role though.

huntedbyafreak · 15/11/2015 9:04 pm

There probably already is

Tek · 15/11/2015 9:06 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
There probably already is

Aye probably.

More sophisticated methods are required though and a network of agents in every major European city.

The suggestions of bombing Syria are akin to bombing Dublin to bring down the IRA back in the day.

RRDH · 15/11/2015 11:31 pm

I'm not being funny or out but if I was a French citizen, I'd mourn but fuck would I be livid with my leaders. Every man with eyes and a brain could see this was on the cards.

An awful amount of p1sh on this thread which I might get to later.

We need bold leaders to confront this. Can't think of one in a major western country with a spine. Half of them dare not even utter the words "radical islam".

What Hollande has done with this airstrike is symbolic and nothing more. Tougher decisions to come for him.

Last edited by RRDH (15/11/2015 11:32 pm)

Tek · 15/11/2015 11:37 pm

RRDH wrote:
I'm not being funny or out but if I was a French citizen, I'd mourn but fuck would I be livid with my leaders. Every man with eyes and a brain could see this was on the cards.

An awful amount of p1sh on this thread which I might get to later.

We need bold leaders to confront this. Can't think of one in a major western country with a spine. Half of them dare not even utter the words "radical islam".

What Hollande has done with this airstrike is symbolic and nothing more. Tougher decisions to come for him.

Go on then... how do we solve this?

Declare a War on 'Radical Islam'?

And what does that entail exactly?

TheShed · 16/11/2015 12:03 am

As long as there's money to be made by "the west" selling weapons then this will continue, 1 radical group after the next fighting for whatever cause it happens to be at that point.

Wars make money and fear gathers support for war, western governments have no interest in stopping this and there's plenty willing in the Middle East/ Africa to keep it going for as long as my great grandkids are alive.

Edmond Dantes · 16/11/2015 12:06 am

the plod stopped this lad Salah then let him go

i thought keystone Cops was a byword for Police Scotland after the M9 debacle

but obviously applies to the gendarmes now too.

Arabnophobia · 16/11/2015 12:24 am

Edited to keep the peace!

Last edited by Arabnophobia (16/11/2015 12:27 am)

TheShed · 16/11/2015 12:35 am

Arabnophobia wrote:
Edited to keep the peace!

If only it was that simple

lifesanocean · 16/11/2015 12:11 pm

Tek wrote:
RRDH wrote:
I'm not being funny or out but if I was a French citizen, I'd mourn but fuck would I be livid with my leaders. Every man with eyes and a brain could see this was on the cards.

An awful amount of p1sh on this thread which I might get to later.

We need bold leaders to confront this. Can't think of one in a major western country with a spine. Half of them dare not even utter the words "radical islam".

What Hollande has done with this airstrike is symbolic and nothing more. Tougher decisions to come for him.

Go on then... how do we solve this?

Declare a War on 'Radical Islam'?

And what does that entail exactly?

Awful lot of people suggesting this 'solution':

Beharder · 16/11/2015 12:29 pm

Obviously there is no silver bullet here however we need to up the propaganda war to let the masses know what these fanatics are all about, what is their end game. Were always too soft, you cant reason with fanatics, give them some verbals that is what gets them riled. Lastly I haven't seen any moderate muslims in the media denouncing this as not in our name, better not say too much in case I offend anyone.

RRDH · 17/11/2015 10:35 pm

Tek wrote:
RRDH wrote:
I'm not being funny or out but if I was a French citizen, I'd mourn but fuck would I be livid with my leaders. Every man with eyes and a brain could see this was on the cards.

An awful amount of p1sh on this thread which I might get to later.

We need bold leaders to confront this. Can't think of one in a major western country with a spine. Half of them dare not even utter the words "radical islam".

What Hollande has done with this airstrike is symbolic and nothing more. Tougher decisions to come for him.

Go on then... how do we solve this?

Declare a War on 'Radical Islam'?

And what does that entail exactly?

You cant solve it and for mainland Europe it's likely already too late but there are things we absolutely should be doing that we seemingly dont have the stomach for. This has gotten worse and worse because US & European leadership all accross the board is weak. The only real leader we have in the free world is villified by the rest of the free world.

- Identify the enemy, make the distinction on who the f uckers are. President gets up there and says theyre not "islamic" but will call them ISIS when the first f ucking letter stands for ISLAMIC.
- STOP allowing refugees from these regions without having the means to verify who the f uck they are. Bad people are exploiting it, stands to f ucking reason they would as well.When you consider the sheer numbers... even 0.1% of that slipping through the cracks makes us infinitely less safe.
- Profile. Sorry, just makes sense, for now.
- Wage war to WIN against these cockroaches, and you will never be able to do that with pin prick. Unleash hell on the bastards in such a way that allows our military to blow as many of these cockroaches back into the dark ages where they belong. Whatever the cost. Keep everything on the table and ask your generals what they need to get the job done.

Just a couple of ideas, we've made a sh1t ton of mistakes over there. Bush made the mistake of trying to democratize uncivil societies, Obama/Clinton made a complete chunt of the draw down to appease campaign promises... vaccuums now being filled with ISIS and subsequently Russia FFS. Complete nightmare.

Shitstorm has been brewing for decades and NO, Bush didnt start it. Could list about 50 attacks on the western world by terrorists in my lifetime alone, all before the Iraq war.

Obama, on Friday morning, declared ISIS were contained. This from the same man who also declared that ISIS were Al Quedas JV team. He's never taken this responsibility seriously, even now. We unfortunately dont seem to have any leaders that DO.

huntedbyafreak · 17/11/2015 10:51 pm

This will be good

TheShed · 17/11/2015 11:24 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
This will be good

It's not even worth it.