Tekel Towers » Scotland v Poland

PatReilly · 09/10/2015 10:09 pm

Looked up Levein and Strachan : both have had very similar records, 24 games and only one difference of a win for Strachan over a defeat for Levein.

Levein lost in Prague, not due to his formation, but because of zonal marking. And the home game v Czech Republic, two very dodgy late decisions in penalty boxes cost us.

Tek · 09/10/2015 11:35 pm

PatReilly wrote:
Looked up Levein and Strachan : both have had very similar records, 24 games and only one difference of a win for Strachan over a defeat for Levein.

Levein lost in Prague, not due to his formation, but because of zonal marking. And the home game v Czech Republic, two very dodgy late decisions in penalty boxes cost us.

We've had tougher games under Strachan though.

That group we had when we were the first nation who couldn't qualify Scotland,Belguim,Wales,Serbia,Croatia,Macedonia....was hardly the group of death.

Results only picked up in that group once Strachan took over.

This campaign has been ultimately another huge dissapointment and agree with LAO thta he has been to loyal to certain players (though i disagree about Hutton i think he's actually quite underated in our team).

I really can't argue that Levein deserved more time though and as i say i am a huge admirer and would have him back at Tannadice in a heartbeat.Always felt from very early on that the Scotland job wasn't suited to him and we never impressed under him at anytime for me.

TheShed · 10/10/2015 4:03 am

lifesanocean wrote:
The thing is players who should have been integrated into the team during this campaign particularly this year as we have got progressively worse were ingnored. Players like Russell, GMS, Armstrong, Griffiths, Ryan Jack are now well into their 20s yet have virtually no international experience whilst dross like Hutton continue to play every game despite being shite defensively and never creating anything going forward. These players will probably play most games next campaign but have been given no real opportunities so far.

When CLtook over, I said at that time we needed to accept writing 1 campaign off to build a team from the younger lads and give them that experience so the next campaign they'd have a real chance. That's never happened and is still what's needed, the guys you mentioned above should have played this whole campaign, without pressure, to get ready for the next one.

Folk may think that's negative, but it's where we are right now and the only way to get out of it.

TheShed · 10/10/2015 4:08 am

When I say Levein had us heading the right way, I mean slow steady progress, think he'd have done better this campaign with that behind him than Strachan has. Not saying Strachan should go either, don't really think that's help now either, he needs time.

Andy · 10/10/2015 6:15 am

PatReilly wrote:
Looked up Levein and Strachan : both have had very similar records, 24 games and only one difference of a win for Strachan over a defeat for Levein.

Levein lost in Prague, not due to his formation, but because of zonal marking. And the home game v Czech Republic, two very dodgy late decisions in penalty boxes cost us.

Spot on, Levien was as good as Strachan, if we had kept him in charge we would have finished in the top 3 in this group, look at Michael O'Neill - NI could have easily sacked him after the the last qualifies but stuck by him.

He's not a witty media darling though.

Also that "4-6-0" pish gets really on my tits. When Barca do it it's ground breaking, when Levein did it it was a national disgrace. And for the record his team that night; McGregor, Hutton, Whittaker, McManus, Weir, Caldwell, Darren Fletcher, Morrison, Dorrans, Mackie, Naismith. Pretty sure there are TWO strikers in that team.

Andy · 10/10/2015 6:22 am

Tek wrote:
PatReilly wrote:
Looked up Levein and Strachan : both have had very similar records, 24 games and only one difference of a win for Strachan over a defeat for Levein.

Levein lost in Prague, not due to his formation, but because of zonal marking. And the home game v Czech Republic, two very dodgy late decisions in penalty boxes cost us.
We've had tougher games under Strachan though.

In our current group only Germany are ranked higher than us, I don't know how to check back on previous World Rankings but I'd bet at the time we had more than one team in that group that was ranked higher than us?

Ireland did great home and away to Germany, we've done similar too with France etc over the years, you can't legislate for that. Taking Germany out of the equation, even with two defeats to them, we need to win every other home game, beat the bottom two away and draw at least with the other two. That's the minimum, 20 points, and we're through automatically. Poland were playing well when we played them away tbf, so even a defeat there is 19 points and at least a play-off.

Losing in Georgia was awful, and we had a great opportunity to win in Dublin too, the team selection for both was shit.

Andy · 10/10/2015 6:28 am

lifesanocean wrote:
The thing is players who should have been integrated into the team during this campaign particularly this year as we have got progressively worse were ingnored. Players like Russell, GMS, Armstrong, Griffiths, Ryan Jack are now well into their 20s yet have virtually no international experience whilst dross like Hutton continue to play every game despite being shite defensively and never creating anything going forward. These players will probably play most games next campaign but have been given no real opportunities so far.

Spot on.

It's time to ditch all the English players who aren't good enough for England and plan for the future with youung Scottish talent, even if that means 90% of the squad comes from the Scottish league. What's the worst that can happpen? We don't qualify for a major tournament....

The WC 2018 group is as good as it gets imo, England will win it at a canter as per, we should be aiming for second.

I bet we coud name 3 scottish players for each position that are under 30, Scottish and playing in the Scottish Premiership or higher that would be a better squad that what we've just now.

Tek · 10/10/2015 10:19 am

Think some of you guys have got rose tinted specs when it comes to Levein (perhaps understandably).

Fact is Scotland were DIRE under him and were going backwards in that last campaign imo.The 2 drab draws v Serbia and Macedonia at Hampden were as bad as i've ever saw Scotland play,it was turgid,passionless stuff.

Do agree as i said that Strachan was maybe too loyal to one or two players but i think it was only really one or two.

Hear a lot of folk saying 'how does Hutton get a game'?Name me another Scottish right back who's playing against the standard of opposition he is every week?There simply isn't one.

A lot of the guys youse have mentioned you would like to see in the Scotland team all have Utd connections (Russell,Armstrong,GMS etc).GMS and Russell aren't even getting a regular game and Strachan did try and bring Armstrong into the fold in the last 2 squads but he was injured.Ryan Jack i haven't honestly seen enough of to say whether he's worthy of a game.

The other players he's brought in like Russell Martin and Matt Richie,again,are all playing regulary in the EPL.

The one player i don't understand getting a regular shout is James Forrest (though to be fair he had not a bad game against Poland).

Listen i'm not saying Strachan is necessarily the answer but who is?Who would take us this next step forward?Bearing in mind our World Cup qualification group also looks a fucking nightmare to navigate through.

Edmond Dantes · 11/10/2015 8:58 pm

6-0 v Gibraltar

Scotland are back

bowers · 12/10/2015 4:01 pm

Fuckin terrible atmosphere at game.
Fan zone before game was a shambles and game was shite.

lifesanocean · 12/10/2015 5:51 pm

Tek wrote:
Think some of you guys have got rose tinted specs when it comes to Levein (perhaps understandably).

Fact is Scotland were DIRE under him and were going backwards in that last campaign imo.The 2 drab draws v Serbia and Macedonia at Hampden were as bad as i've ever saw Scotland play,it was turgid,passionless stuff.

Do agree as i said that Strachan was maybe too loyal to one or two players but i think it was only really one or two.

Hear a lot of folk saying 'how does Hutton get a game'?Name me another Scottish right back who's playing against the standard of opposition he is every week?There simply isn't one.

A lot of the guys youse have mentioned you would like to see in the Scotland team all have Utd connections (Russell,Armstrong,GMS etc).GMS and Russell aren't even getting a regular game and Strachan did try and bring Armstrong into the fold in the last 2 squads but he was injured.Ryan Jack i haven't honestly seen enough of to say whether he's worthy of a game.

The other players he's brought in like Russell Martin and Matt Richie,again,are all playing regulary in the EPL.

The one player i don't understand getting a regular shout is James Forrest (though to be fair he had not a bad game against Poland).

Listen i'm not saying Strachan is necessarily the answer but who is?Who would take us this next step forward?Bearing in mind our World Cup qualification group also looks a fucking nightmare to navigate through.

I'd play Whittaker ahead of Hutton personally but see your arguement. Its a problem position for us (one of many). Matt Ritchie shouldn't be playing as a wide player, particularly in international football on big parks. He's not got any pace and his crossing is poor. He's ridiculously left footed as well but playing him on the left wouldn't work inho due to him being far too slow to go on the outside. If I was managing him I'd play him central off of the centre forward.

Central midfield is going to be the big problem area for us in the next campaign. Brown and Darren Fletcher don't look to have the legs anymore. James McArthur is just shite in my opinion, can't trap a bag of cement, has no passing ability or positional awareness. How he gets a game in the Premiership is completely beyond me, I wouldn't give him a game for Utd.

In the next campaign I'd like to see us playing something along the lines of:

Marshall/Gordon/Bain

Whittaker/Hutton
Martin
Hanley
Robertson

Anya
Jack/Brown
Armstrong/Dorrans
GMS/Snodgrass

Russell/Ritchie/Naismith

Griffiths/Fletcher/Rhodes

I'd give Strachan another crack at a campaign but a wee dose of honestly wouldn't go amiss. He's still not accepting any blame for what went wrong and trying to pass off this idea of us being unlucky. He made a total arse of the Ireland game in Dublin with his team selection and clearly didnt have them up for it in Georgia. Playing a friendly against Quatar was a massive gaffe as well. We should've played at least one friendly out in a former Soviet country in Spring/Summer time in preparation for the Georgia game which we KNEW was going to be the potential banana skin.

Last edited by lifesanocean (12/10/2015 5:55 pm)

lifesanocean · 12/10/2015 6:17 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
IMO the main reason we didn't qualify is because we literally have zero defenders that are good enough. Zero. When we used to qualify for tournaments we always had decent defenders. We have zero. Folk will go on about Robertson, he's quality but at end of day, would he make the England squad? Nope. Would he make an England B team? Nope.

There isn't one player in the Scotland squad that would make the England squad.

Only Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey from Wales would make the England Squad and neither of them are defenders yet they still managed to qualify. No-one from Northern Ireland's team would get in the England squad and tbh only about 2-3 of them would get in our squad; Johnny Evans, Steven Davis and maybe Chris Brunt or Craig Cathcart. Even the Republic are pretty shite at the back, Seamus Coleman is the only one that plays at a top level and is still a good age and even then Andy Robbo pissed all over him at Celtic Park.. They have all got through their groups and we haven't.

On one hand Strachan has questions to answer, on the other hand, we had by far the hardest group. If' we'd had Northern Ireland's or Englands group we'd have got through no bother.

Last edited by lifesanocean (12/10/2015 6:18 pm)

Tek · 12/10/2015 7:11 pm

We did have a much harder group than both Northern Ireland and Wales.

The other thing I'll say is our best player (IMO) Robert Snodgrass missed the whole campaign.

Think he'll be a huge player going forward for us.

I'd give Strachan another chance.

Andy · 13/10/2015 6:43 am

I'm sure I read that Vogts, Burley and Levein finished third in their groups and all got hammered for it. Strachan does it and its glorious failure, and I don't think we had a difficult group at all, results against our challengers for second and third prove that.

I'm not against him staying on due to a lack of alternative and the need for consistency but a wee bit of humility would go a long way, he failed, pure and simple, he needs to acknowledge this and make changes.

He's playing the poor wee laddie just now making people beg him to stay, fuck that shit, actually I do want him to leave, he's a sniveling wee cunt.

BNB, Sheep and Celtic. Bet he's an Oldco supporter too. Tainted.

huntedbyafreak · 13/10/2015 7:26 am

We finished 4th. Pretty sure he's a Hibbee

Last edited by huntedbyafreak (13/10/2015 7:27 am)

Andy · 13/10/2015 8:33 am

huntedbyafreak wrote:
We finished 4th.

Troo dat. Meant that those three all missed out by one place and got hammered, as did Strachan and he gets a reach around.

Tek · 13/10/2015 3:05 pm

Levein and Burley deserved criticism.

Some of the results and performances under them we're brutal beyond belief.

I'm not a huge fan of Strachan as a person but by and large he's had Scotland playing good football and I don't think we're a million miles away from qualifying now.

Continuity (sp) required rather than major surgery imo.