Tekel Towers » Indy Ref 2014

Tek · 18/9/2015 8:26 am

Has anything been learned?

How would Scotland vote if we were voting again today do you think?

Tangerine_Ultra · 18/9/2015 12:40 pm

Hope the no voting shite bags are happy. 1 year on and fuck all has happend.

18/9/2015 2:06 pm

Not sure - tight vote again with a narrower no vote I guess - don't think anything has happened to tip things over to an indy yes vote yet - but give Dave and Gideon another year and I'm sure things will change

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 4:22 pm

I think it would still be a No. It would be closer though. Need some really cold winters for a few good years to get Yes in majority

Foo Kin Twat · 18/9/2015 5:47 pm

As per what Hunted says. I reckon the slump in the price of crude oil might have spooked many too that we would have been holed below the waterline before we even started. Salmond's BIG flaw IMO was a lack of a clear economic strategy. It was pretty much weve oil and tourism and whisky! But what do I know, I hate all politicians?!

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 6:19 pm

Spot on about Salmonds flaws. Still a huge missed opportunity IMO. It wouldn't have been easy. Scotland wouldn't have been the utopia that some Yessers claimed. Would have been a good few years of pain but eventually Scotland could have been a successful independent small country.

The issue is never going away though

TheShed · 18/9/2015 8:49 pm

Think we're at least 10 years off being able to get a yes, need a generation to die out first, along with the constant pain of Tory rule for that time which we'll have.

blackandtangerine · 18/9/2015 8:58 pm

Tangerine_Ultra wrote:
Hope the no voting shite bags are happy. 1 year on and fuck all has happend.

I'm happy as fook! Cheers for asking

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 9:05 pm

TheShed wrote:
Think we're at least 10 years off being able to get a yes, need a generation to die out first, along with the constant pain of Tory rule for that time which we'll have.

There shouldn't be one anyway. It was a No vote after all

It will happen though one day. It's inevitable

Last edited by huntedbyafreak (18/9/2015 9:05 pm)

hamishthegoalie · 18/9/2015 9:12 pm

Tek wrote:
Has anything been learned?

How would Scotland vote if we were voting again today do you think?

Unfortunately, I think we'd still vote "No". Project Fear is still alive and well and currently splitting its time between "the drop in the price of oil would have been a disaster- thank god we stuck with that nice westminster governement" and "Jeremy Corbyn is the antichrist". And, much as though Corbyn is a breath of fresh air in UK terms, Labour under him will NOT be returned to government by an English electorate (if he even makes it to 2020- have my doubts given that even his own party have the knives out for him) and, at the end of the day, he's just another unionist, so no use to us.He should to go read up on John McLean if he has trouble understanding how socialism and independence are entirely compatible.

Hunted also said nothing had changed in the last year- I disagree. The bastard tories are now officially off the leash and have set out a programme of government which idealogically seeks to punish the poor in a way which will be ruthless. The poorer you are, the more you'll have to pay for something which wasn't your fault in the first place. And there's f-all we can do about it and every time I here a No voter whine about any of this I feel like punching them in the face- after all, they voted that this is ok.

TheShed · 18/9/2015 9:18 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
TheShed wrote:
Think we're at least 10 years off being able to get a yes, need a generation to die out first, along with the constant pain of Tory rule for that time which we'll have.
There shouldn't be one anyway. It was a No vote after all

It will happen though one day. It's inevitable

I'd agree there has to be a reasonable timescale between any 2 referendums, not sure what that is but 10 years at least.

Also think that the SNP and Salmond in particular should stop banging on about another one just now, counter productive IMO. Imagine we had one next year and lost, that would be it finished for decades, surely.

Andy · 18/9/2015 9:20 pm

Interesting in this article it suggests not only was it the oldest but also the youngest voters that said no.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

FWIW I think Salmond being such a polorising character, the whole "its our pound too", EU membership and the absolutely awful SNP manifesto dressed up as a white paper made it easy for undecideds to vote for the status quo.

If we could do it all again (and its not right that we do for 10 years minimum IMO) we should propose the whole shooting match, Republic, own currency, no to EU, yes to EEC, make a case for it and stand by it.

hamishthegoalie · 18/9/2015 9:35 pm

TheShed wrote:
huntedbyafreak wrote:
TheShed wrote:
Think we're at least 10 years off being able to get a yes, need a generation to die out first, along with the constant pain of Tory rule for that time which we'll have.
There shouldn't be one anyway. It was a No vote after all

It will happen though one day. It's inevitable

I'd agree there has to be a reasonable timescale between any 2 referendums, not sure what that is but 10 years at least.

Also think that the SNP and Salmond in particular should stop banging on about another one just now, counter productive IMO. Imagine we had one next year and lost, that would be it finished for decades, surely.

I don't think they do keep banging on about it- it's the media that keeps pressing the issue and asking about it endlessly and the SNP have to respond. I think they'd be quite happy if the unionists and their friends in the media would shut up about it for a while because they know that chuntering on endlessly is counter productive (as you said).I reckon the unionists think they'll scunner folk so much that if and when it is brought forward again people will already be sick listening to anything to do with independence.Not that I'm paranoid or anything...

Last edited by hamishthegoalie (18/9/2015 9:37 pm)

Beharder · 18/9/2015 9:39 pm

As a happy no thanks voter the only thing that gives me the fear is the fact that the SNP are still talking about a referendum when they should be concentrating on running the country. Police Scotland has been a shambles, the NHS is in meltdown, we have kids turning up at secondary school who cant read or write and now Swinney has made a complete balls up of the funding of the futures trust leaving many new build schools and hospitals in indefinite limbo, how much longer will people swallow the thats Westminters fault line?

Andy · 18/9/2015 9:57 pm

Beharder wrote:
As a happy no thanks voter the only thing that gives me the fear is the fact that the SNP are still talking about a referendum when they should be concentrating on running the country. Police Scotland has been a shambles, the NHS is in meltdown, we have kids turning up at secondary school who cant read or write and now Swinney has made a complete balls up of the funding of the futures trust leaving many new build schools and hospitals in indefinite limbo, how much longer will people swallow the thats Westminters fault line?

The SNP are answering questions about a referendum, with the First Minister repeatedly saying its not on the agenda.

School leavers do better than ever before and in 8 years of power the SNP have rebuilt or refurbished one fifth of all school buildings in Scotland.

Crime is at a 41 year low.

Scotland has higher employment than the rest of the UK.

Youth employment is at its highest level in a decade.

NHS waiting times in Scotland are among the lowest ever recorded.

But don't let facts get in the way of your point.

Beharder · 18/9/2015 10:23 pm

Andy wrote:
Beharder wrote:
As a happy no thanks voter the only thing that gives me the fear is the fact that the SNP are still talking about a referendum when they should be concentrating on running the country. Police Scotland has been a shambles, the NHS is in meltdown, we have kids turning up at secondary school who cant read or write and now Swinney has made a complete balls up of the funding of the futures trust leaving many new build schools and hospitals in indefinite limbo, how much longer will people swallow the thats Westminters fault line?
The SNP are answering questions about a referendum, with the First Minister repeatedly saying its not on the agenda.

School leavers do better than ever before and in 8 years of power the SNP have rebuilt or refurbished one fifth of all school buildings in Scotland.

Crime is at a 41 year low.

Scotland has higher employment than the rest of the UK.

Youth employment is at its highest level in a decade.

NHS waiting times in Scotland are among the lowest ever recorded.

But don't let facts get in the way of your point.

Andy

Which of my points are untrue

Mr House was forced to leave early

There is a GP recruiment crises with many medical centres in Dundee saying its never been worse

Talking from the inside I can assure you that pupils grasp of the basics is getting worse year on year.

Lets leave talk of the next referendum for a generation and concentrate on using the devolved powers we have.

hamishthegoalie · 18/9/2015 10:35 pm

Andy wrote:
Beharder wrote:
As a happy no thanks voter the only thing that gives me the fear is the fact that the SNP are still talking about a referendum when they should be concentrating on running the country. Police Scotland has been a shambles, the NHS is in meltdown, we have kids turning up at secondary school who cant read or write and now Swinney has made a complete balls up of the funding of the futures trust leaving many new build schools and hospitals in indefinite limbo, how much longer will people swallow the thats Westminters fault line?
The SNP are answering questions about a referendum, with the First Minister repeatedly saying its not on the agenda.

School leavers do better than ever before and in 8 years of power the SNP have rebuilt or refurbished one fifth of all school buildings in Scotland.

Crime is at a 41 year low.

Scotland has higher employment than the rest of the UK.

Youth employment is at its highest level in a decade.

NHS waiting times in Scotland are among the lowest ever recorded.

But don't let facts get in the way of your point.

Spot on- agree with all of that. But Beharder has a democratic right to vote how he/she sees fit, and I respect that.

I would just be interested to know how all the "happy No voters" would have reacted if they'd been with me last week. I was in Kos and saw those poor, poor souls that are the refugees there. There's not much else I could do except give as many as possible as much money as I had on me and could lift out the bank but I was upset and crying and more than that I was very, very angry when I was crouched down trying to speak to the Afghani lady and her wee children including a baby, living and sleeping on the pavement, and thought of that horrible bastard cameron and his response to this human tragedy. And I felt angry angry angry that there's nothing our country- Scotland- can do to officially offer help and sanctuary to some of these people.And angry at the people who voted to continue this arrangement. So this referendum decision extends much, much further than how much we spend on the NHS etc. And no, I'm not saying that Scotland is an international paragon of virtue without some who would complain about and object to " immigrants", but I like to think our response would be far more compassionate than the one which is currently being issued in our name.

But as long as the No voters are happy...

Foo Kin Twat · 18/9/2015 10:37 pm

I agree with you Beharder.....and you missed out the Fire Service which is as fecked up as the Polis. There will be more of these Control Room feck ups....mark my words! If the SNP do as said and run the Country with what devolved powers they do have, independence will happen. But having seen the rush job with the Fire and Police Services and the cover ups re the finances of the projects in Dundee, they are not covering themselves in glory IMO. It's just plain stupid to be asking the question after 1 year. Look how well the SNP did in that General Election coz they were well drilled and all sung from the same hymn sheet....

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 10:47 pm

The Police Scotland thing is a disgrace. However, the majority of Scots have fuck all dealings with the Police. Therefore, rightly or wrongly, it will have no impact on how they vote.

The SNP in Government have been competent. They've not been great. They've not been shite. They've made mistakes. They are a populist party that don't want to upset the apple cart? The thing is though that IF you voted Yes in 2014, why would you ever vote for a Better Together party? Folk won't. A lot of folk that voted Yes might like Corbyn. They will not vote for Labour in a Scottish election though. As a nation we are totally divided.

I think it's fucking brilliant tbh

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 10:49 pm

There shouldn't be another referendum though. Not for at least 10-15 years. However, if the Tories win in 2020, which they will. By miles. They clamour for another will increase. Honestly, it's inevitable. As soon as Scotland got its Parliament in 1999 the end game will be independence. Once people get more powers, they want even more. It's human nature

Foo Kin Twat · 18/9/2015 10:53 pm

Yep Hunted, Corbyn and Surgeon have plenty common ground re policies and outlook, but how can any YES voter ever vote Scottish Labour or Scottish LibDem ever again without being hypocritical? That's why the SNP should just concentrate on doing better as you say on their own report card and that will do more than anything to change people's views. But it will need at least 2 terms of Scottish Parliaments IMO.

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 10:57 pm

They will claim that they can't do what's needed due to WM restrictions and we don't access to various revenues.

If we had voted Yes. It would have been done and dusted by this time next year. We'd have had to stand on our own 2 feet and just got fucking on with it like all proper grown up countries do.

As it stands it's a massive shit storm. Which is also pretty good if you like winding folk up on Twitter

Foo Kin Twat · 18/9/2015 11:00 pm

You're not like that are you?

huntedbyafreak · 18/9/2015 11:01 pm

Haha

18/9/2015 11:03 pm

Not too fussed wrt the when of a referendum.

Plainly there needs to be a reason or some locks if you will - a continuing majority for pro independence parties at Holyrood being the main one.

For the others were getting into "events dear boy, events" territory....EU vote...continuing Tory rule....and more likely something we haven't even thought about.

As has been said above pretty inevitable once we got a separate parliament and will be again.