Tekel Towers » lets be honest

bowers · 07/7/2015 11:45 am

Trap_6 wrote:
bowers wrote:
Trap_6 wrote:
Do we want good players or experienced players?

We had experience last season in those positions - Rado and Fojut - and I thought they were both shite TBH.

I doubt more than a handful of United fans have ever seen any of our goalies or Durnan play more than once. Maybe we should wait and see how they fare before deciding we need more experienced players than them.

We want good we want youth we want experiancr we want a mix of the 3.. do we currently and hoesntly have that at the club to go a season?

As i said we needed to strenthen certain areas last season goalkeeper and defence included in them areas. We have let go our keeper and are happy to go with 3 youth keepers who nevee got a chance last season even when rado was throwing wobblers big time.
That's making an assessment based on something you haven't seen, rather than waiting until you have seen it.

As for your mix of good, youth and experience - I completely agree. See my post further up, I believe we do have that.

I have seen mccallum a few times and thought he was a decent keeper but is he better than rado? Time will tell

I hope your right t6 and this squad can do something this season but sadly im not confident.

huntedbyafreak · 07/7/2015 12:09 pm

I'm honestly past caring.

It is what is is. Trust has gone between fans and club. We need a new manager to get that trust back

Trap_6 · 07/7/2015 12:11 pm

We're a fickle bunch mate. Get off to a good start and watch that trust magically reappear.

Sir Jackie, comparisons with 83 etc...

Tangerine_Ultra · 07/7/2015 12:12 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
I'm honestly past caring.

It is what is is. Trust has gone between fans and club. We need a new manager to get that trust back

Well said.

huntedbyafreak · 07/7/2015 12:14 pm

Trap_6 wrote:
We're a fickle bunch mate. Get off to a good start and watch that trust magically reappear.

Sir Jackie, comparisons with 83 etc...

Hope so. I'm about 60/40 with go or stay with Jackie.

A line needs drawn under the situation. I don't think it can be drawn with him as manager.

He's a goner

Trap_6 · 07/7/2015 12:21 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
Trap_6 wrote:
We're a fickle bunch mate. Get off to a good start and watch that trust magically reappear.

Sir Jackie, comparisons with 83 etc...
Hope so. I'm about 60/40 with go or stay with Jackie.

A line needs drawn under the situation. I don't think it can be drawn with him as manager.

He's a goner

I hear what you're saying. I don't think he'll be given much slack if things get off to a slow start this season, purely because of what's gone before.

Foo Kin Twat · 07/7/2015 12:44 pm

Buckle up Buttercups. Is he not contracted for seasons 15/16 and 16/17? I was one of those who applauded in the Whitehall Theatre less than 18 months ago at news of his own and his team's contract extension til then. He needs to hit the ground running for sure this season for his own career's sake as much as for the good of Dundee United Football Club Limited! So what happens in the next 3 weeks coaching/fitness and dare I say signing-wise is crucial.

Macho Man · 07/7/2015 1:44 pm

Trap_6 wrote:
GK - McCallum
RB - McGowan
LB - Dixon
CB - Durnan
CB - Morris
DM - Souttar
DM - Rankin
LAM - Erskine
CAM - Fraser
RAM - Dow
FW - Bilate

Bench - Zwick, Dillon, Paton, Connolly, Spittal, Telfer, Muirhead

To suggest that squad will be anywhere near relegation is utter garbage IMO.

Trap, if I'm being honest that team does concern me.

Bilate made how many starts last season? We surely can't be relying on him as he has so far been shown to be a bit of a sick note.
Dow, is as hot and cold as you can get. Even when he is playing hot, it's more of a luke warm than anything else.
Fraser, I know nothing about him so I can't be confident in his ability.
Erskine can't last a full 90 minutes without breathing out his arse.
Rankin, I worry about relying on him as he can very easily disappear for games at a time. Whilst he's experienced he's not the Mr Dependable that we all used to think.
Souttar, if rumours are true, is not signing a new contract and can you blame him? Allegedly he doesn't trust the management team and can you see him putting everything he's got into a game for them?
Morris I'm yet to be convinced of. He's a no nonsense type of player for 80 minutes, but throughout the game he's prone to brain farts which concerns me.
Durnan, see my comments about Fraser
McGowan is solid enough
Dixon seemed to be coming onto a game towards the end of the season despite a shaky start to his return to United.
McCallum, see my comments about Fraser and Durnan.

I'm wanting to be positive, but the attitude coming from the board and management says that they currently don't give a flying and if that filters into the team then there is a huge problem.

Trap_6 · 07/7/2015 1:55 pm

Time will tell. I'm not saying that team is going to win the league. I'm saying it's a decent looking squad with bags of potential that, even with little experience, won't be sniffing a relegation battle.

Macho Man · 07/7/2015 2:06 pm

Trap_6 wrote:
Time will tell. I'm not saying that team is going to win the league. I'm saying it's a decent looking squad with bags of potential that, even with little experience, won't be sniffing a relegation battle.

Potential is one thing, but it's not guaranteed to transpire.

I just feel that due to the young avergae age of the team there is no real backbone there to keep heads up if the shit hits the fan.

GF80 · 07/7/2015 2:54 pm

huntedbyafreak wrote:
I'm honestly past caring.

It is what is is. Trust has gone between fans and club. We need a new manager to get that trust back

Hate to say it but I agree regarding the manager, think the damage is well and truly done and don't really see a way back.

When all is said and done though, the main thing is that every single fan gets behind the team on the park as the rest will be what it will be. C'est la vie and all that....

Andy · 07/7/2015 3:24 pm

Feeling the same Hunted, past caring, can't be fucked with it.

Whatever way you want to position it we've sold loads of good players in the last couple of years for shit loads of money and we're still in debt and worse than that we run at a pretty hefty loss year after year.

We had a strong looking team who won fuck all, we sold the best of them before we had a chance to enjoy them and we've now got a mediocre looking team in a less than mediocre league.

It is what it is and we are where we are, I have lost a lot of interest in 2015, and god knows we've been through much worse times than this and I was still mad for it week after week but just now I just can't get myself interested at all.

07/7/2015 6:07 pm

Andy wrote:
Feeling the same Hunted, past caring, can't be fucked with it.

Whatever way you want to position it we've sold loads of good players in the last couple of years for shit loads of money and we're still in debt and worse than that we run at a pretty hefty loss year after year.

We had a strong looking team who won fuck all, we sold the best of them before we had a chance to enjoy them and we've now got a mediocre looking team in a less than mediocre league.

It is what it is and we are where we are, I have lost a lot of interest in 2015, and god knows we've been through much worse times than this and I was still mad for it week after week but just now I just can't get myself interested at all.

Given that the debt was over £10m at the start of the decade unfortunately selling players was always the only way out (barring admin - or worse).

I posted the other week that the transfer take over the period to 2015 was approx
£8m (and I have a bad feeling that I should have lopped 20% off for Vat) - the club are now projecting overall debt down to £1.4m this year so you can see where the transfer income has gone.

Our year on year losses haven't been helped by having to service the debt at over £200k p/a until recently so the issue of the trading loss has IMO been overstated by not taking this into account.

It's frustrating no doubt at all, especially when you consider where we might have been had we not gotten ourselves into a debt mire in the first place, but where we are now is not as bad as has been suggested in some quarters and could have been a whole lot worse.

Andy · 07/7/2015 9:00 pm

Cannae mind the debt ever being over £7m mate, and you've just said transfer income was £8m in 2014/15 alone.

If you include Johnny's sale and Ciftci's imminent departure we're talking £10m income under Jackie's tenure alone, if your figures are close.

VAT is paid be the purchaser so that's not an issue either.

I thought our income to wages ratio was around 55% now which is excellent, with very little expense on serving debt due to the reported very low interst soft loans I'm staggered that were still in debt and run at a loss every year.

Only a few people at the club and their advisors know the full script and its their prerogative as to how much info they want to share over and above the legally required disclosures but the sums don't add up to me.

I agree it could be worse bud, but it should be a hell of a lot better imo.

TheShed · 07/7/2015 9:19 pm

bowers wrote:
Here... How many posters on here are 100% happy with the squad we have going into the coming season?

Not me and very worried.

Our team is full of inconsistant young players. A handfull of experianced lads that never set the hesther alight fully in the past 6 months. 3 keepers with very little rop league experiance and strikers who havent done anything for us since signing.

Individually (with a couple of exceptions) the players are good enough, collectively as a team there's definitely question marks whether they can compete successfully at the level required.

I don't see it as a relegation squad, whether it can be top 6, not sure, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts, ICT, St Johnstone will all be top 6, we'll be in a fight with Dundee + 1 other for the last slot I think.

Having said that, if we get off to a bad start and confidence goes it could be real trouble.

07/7/2015 9:22 pm

Andy wrote:
Cannae mind the debt ever being over £7m mate, and you've just said transfer income was £8m in 2014/15 alone.

If you include Johnny's sale and Ciftci's imminent departure we're talking £10m income under Jackie's tenure alone, if your figures are close.

VAT is paid be the purchaser so that's not an issue either.

I thought our income to wages ratio was around 55% now which is excellent, with very little expense on serving debt due to the reported very low interst soft loans I'm staggered that were still in debt and run at a loss every year.

Only a few people at the club and their advisors know the full script and its their prerogative as to how much info they want to share over and above the legally required disclosures but the sums don't add up to me.

I agree it could be worse bud, but it should be a hell of a lot better imo.

Sorry Andy, I was a bit rushed when posting the £8m was up to and including an estimate for GMS and Robertson..

The debt was a fairly constant £10m (ish) through 2009/10/11 with an eye watering £8,433,552 falling due within one year at 30/6/2011.

The Vat I think is payable by the seller....but am checking on this and still working out if/how it shows on the accounts.

Current wage t/o ratio 63% (30/6/2014 up from 61% prior year) this would be for all wages I think.

Full details of all accounts and other financials available here for free

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/

Just search for The Dundee United Football Club Ltd and endless hours of fun can be yours

Last edited by scarpia (07/7/2015 9:22 pm)

geegee · 07/7/2015 9:32 pm

bowers wrote:
Here... How many posters on here are 100% happy with the squad we have going into the coming season?

Not me and very worried.

Our team is full of inconsistant young players. A handfull of experianced lads that never set the hesther alight fully in the past 6 months. 3 keepers with very little rop league experiance and strikers who havent done anything for us since signing.

Jackie on the zone saying we are looking for a new defender and maybe some more players, depending on performances in the Netherlands

bowers · 07/7/2015 9:36 pm

Lets see what happens with this then.

Andy · 07/7/2015 9:52 pm

You seen to be getting your head around the finances Scarpia so I'll leave it in your capable hands, ha ha.

I suppose the VAT payer will depend on if the fee quoted includes VAT or not, so if Andy went for £2.85m + VAT then United would add the £570k or whatever on to the bill and Hull would pay it, or if the £2.85m was the fee including VAT then United would be due the taxman £450k or the likes of that £2.85m.

And I don't even know if football transfers require VAT.

geegee · 07/7/2015 10:12 pm

Andy wrote:
You seen to be getting your head around the finances Scarpia so I'll leave it in your capable hands, ha ha.

I suppose the VAT payer will depend on if the fee quoted includes VAT or not, so if Andy went for £2.85m + VAT then United would add the £570k or whatever on to the bill and Hull would pay it, or if the £2.85m was the fee including VAT then United would be due the taxman £450k or the likes of that £2.85m.

And I don't even know if football transfers require VAT.

they do, but since both parties are VAT registered, the transaction is VAT neutral...United charge it and Hull claim it back

huntedbyafreak · 07/7/2015 10:20 pm

It'll be fine. We've still got Erskine, Dow and Paton