If we win the league, then in my opinion he has earned it his chance and I think we would owe it to him.

He took over from Liam Fox when let's face it we were a total shambles on the field and a basket case off it (still are).

He the one that has had to deal with the legacy of Tony Ashgar over the last two transfer windows, shipping out guys bought from Waitrose and buying from poundland. He's the one that stepped forward when many others turned their back (Craig Levein).

He has recruited well with what he has had imo and hopefully would/could do better with an increased budget.

That said, the only thing that matters is the we win the league, if not then he should be shown the door.

Folk going on like we absolutely battered them. We were piss poor all night and what makes it worse is they were even more piss poor.

Every game he comes out and talks up how we are going to do this or that and it never materialises on the pitch. He consistently picks players who are out of form (Middleton and Grimshaw the main culprits although Fotheringham is living off a reputation of scoring a few tap ins gifted to him at the start of the season). As tek has mentioned the 5 consecutive defeats post split should have been enough to see him punted then. He is just a better spoken Laszlo and anybody defending him gets everything they deserve.

Goodwin imo cost us that Game with his tactics last night. But talk of the sack is daft.

This ponderous attacking style that we have annoys the fuck out of me. It's slow, predictable and makes it incredibly easy to defend against us.

Thing is though is that it's not a Goodwin trait it's been a trait we have had probably since the Micky Mellon days and I don't understand why.

Another wee thing that annoyed me from Friday. When Walton got wiped out by that wee shit Hamilton I'm wanting more of our players running up and getting in his face. Instead it just fired them up meanwhile we are just looking around not even interested. But again that seems to be inherent to the club rather than the manager.

If we gave Craig levein the job instead of Goodwin we would’ve stayed up and be currently in the premiership.

Tek wrote:

CCX2 2010 wrote:

If we win the league, then in my opinion he has earned it his chance and I think we would owe it to him.

He took over from Liam Fox when let's face it we were a total shambles on the field and a basket case off it (still are).

He the one that has had to deal with the legacy of Tony Ashgar over the last two transfer windows, shipping out guys bought from Waitrose and buying from poundland. He's the one that stepped forward when many others turned their back (Craig Levein).

He has recruited well with what he has had imo and hopefully would/could do better with an increased budget.

That said, the only thing that matters is the we win the league, if not then he should be shown the door.

On your first point, i wouldn't say we owe him mate. We gave him a job when his stock was very low. We then rewarded him despite failure.

I think if we decided we wanted to go in a different direction in the Summer then that would be understandable, even if we win the league, as there's just been too many red flags over the 12 months he's been in charge.

Look at our neighbours across Tannadice Street. Sacked their Manager despite winning the Championship, which raised a lot of eyebrows. It has proven to be an excellent decision and they have now moved on to another level and look set to finish in the Top 6 for the first time in many years.

I will give him a bit of credit for stepping up and taking the job btw. It was a risk on his part, though probably too big a job for him to turn down.
 

Not really sure what happened across the road and to be honest I don't really care aboutbthem, however Kilmarnock struggled to shake off Arbroath,  stuck by McInnes after just finishing above our shower of cowards last season and look at them now.

If he gets us up he can go and can with his head held high, the enormity of the challenge to get a competitive side on the pitch with what he had to work with wasn't lost on me last year.

Shifting guys like Levitt, Fletcher, Djoum, Birighitti, Behich, Niskanen can't have been easy graft especially with rumoured wage they were/are on.

Getting in replacements who are on a fraction of the wage that Tony Watt and mixing them in training when the new guys are asking themselves how much is he on? That can't be easy.

An Australian guy that owns a set of gloves, managing him.

A chairman that thinks we will just bounce straight back up, guys a crack pot.

Given all that and more, I am for looking at the bigger picture and seeing it out.

That's my Sunday ruined already.😀

I agree with all the views on how every time we have a crucial match we seem to crumble and fail to deliver, clearly last season we were lacking leaders on and off the park - whats worrying is the same seems to be happening this season - is it the coaches being too calm not getting the team up for it, is there a concentration issue.  mot sure.

One thing that strikes me is no matter how the match is playing out we never seem to change formation or tactics (except in the final minutes - where we punt long balls into the box), every sub is like for like.  That is my biggest frustration

A lot of salient points above about a lack of characters in the team.  Although I think Docherty & Gallagher are those sort of players.
It's an ongoing issue for UTD, over the 50+ years I've been going to Tannadice I would say apart from around a 2yr spell under Levein we have never been able to physically dominate the opposition.

SlatefordArab wrote:

Rick Dagless wrote:

Goodwin imo cost us that Game with his tactics last night. But talk of the sack is daft.

This ponderous attacking style that we have annoys the fuck out of me. It's slow, predictable and makes it incredibly easy to defend against us.

Thing is though is that it's not a Goodwin trait it's been a trait we have had probably since the Micky Mellon days and I don't understand why.

Another wee thing that annoyed me from Friday. When Walton got wiped out by that wee shit Hamilton I'm wanting more of our players running up and getting in his face. Instead it just fired them up meanwhile we are just looking around not even interested. But again that seems to be inherent to the club rather than the manager.

We could replace Goodwin with any other coach or manager and that is what we would get.  EVERY single coach/manager on planet earth plays this pishy, tippy tappy side-ways possession shite now.  Wingers scared to take their man on in case the lose possession.   Thrown-ins at the corner flag going back to the halfway line.  Pep Guardiola has a lot to answer for.

I'm going to take a shot every time a united supporter says Tippy Tappy in a forum or on twitter 
 

I've been thinking about whether asking for Goodwin's head immediately after the end of the match was a knee-jerk reaction on my behalf and I don't think it is.

I've heard arguments:
- that we are still top of the league  - and that is true, but this league is pretty poor and we have dropped some very poor points since the initial spell of dominance and that is because, despite having a better squad, there are frankly better tacticians out there that can see what Goodwin does and counter it (Murray and Imrie in particular - not bad managers but not exactly Pep)
- that our players are not always on it - for me that is because he never gets them up for it.  We show spirit when we are losing but I think that is professional pride rather than tactics.  Goodwin is just too happy to sit back and take the draw as he was on Friday night.  That was a must win if you are at Rangers or Celtic.  Players know they don't come off that park without a win.  Did our players show that?  No.  Who's to blame?  The manager.
- we played pretty well on the night.  To an extent I agree, but that is where the frustration comes in.  We were playing our only real challengers (bar a 22/23 end of season collapse) who had won one game in 8 and had conceded 16 in the process.  They are not great.  I saw them lose to Livi in the cup and Livi were genuinely terrible (dumped 4-1 by 10 man Dundee the next weekend).  A draw wouldn't have been a bad result, but a win would have been so much better and would have (by their own admission) killed Raith's title hopes.  So why did we not go for it?
- yip the boy scored a worldy that you couldn't have predicted.  Except you could to an extent.  How many games have you watched where the passive team concede?  That's why you need to take games on to ensure that poorer opposition don't fluke a win.  

But it just not that.  He doesn't know how to use substitutes to any effect.  He doesn't seem able to spot when tactically he is losing the game.  He stands and watches his players continually doing things poorly.  I think every corner we had against Dunfermline two players went out to take it and for every one we played it directly into the box.  So much so that initially two Dunfermline players came out to the edge of the box to deal with the short one.  They kept doing that but eventually one of them just backtracked back into the box before it was taken.  This happened 4 or 5 times right in front of me.  Did we then call their bluff and take one short?  No, not one.  We just decided best to take one of our players out of the game for no advantage.  If I can spot that, why can't Goodwin?

I still think he is going to get us up, but that's because we are streets ahead in terms of budget and our squad is better than any others.  However, his team would get scudded by a poor Livi and they are the worst team in the league above.  We need a wholesale change of squad if we do go up.  Is Goodwin the man to do that?  I think not.  

Last edited by Finn Seemann (19/2/2024 6:18 pm)

Lancashire-Arab wrote:

been saying some of what you have commented on for a while Finn.  Strikes me as a manager who believe his tactics are always correct and it is an absolute they are not wrong just the players not executing them well enough.  

Not calling for his head but most good managers have options on the bench that allow a change in tactics at key points in the game or if they are required.  At the moment all we seem to do is replace the preferred player in a position with one that was not quite good enough to start in that position.

Even when it is clear teams have adapted and worked us out nothing seems to change, we also dont mix up how we play it always seems to be a slow ball out the back and allow teams to settle and get behind the ball - when we go a goal down this suits the other team as they can deny us space.

 

It is a fair point that he was left with a fairly poor squad, but it is still one that is significantly ahead of all the other teams in the league.  It might be counterproductive to ditch him now so I guess he's got to the end of the season assuming he keeps us as favourites for the Championship.  I think for us not to do a Dundee (and sack a promoted manager), he has to now win the league with a bit to spare and pull away from the pack.  If he can show a positive reaction to Friday's setback then maybe he deserves next season, but for me I have my doubts.  The only other thing that is saving him is I have absolutely no confidence that Ogren has the nous to find a better replacement.

Sair ane, gutted.
So much so that havnae looked at posts, replays, interviews zip since final whistle.

Limit myself to three of many things.
1/ Something way wrong when they're bringing on Easton, Connolly and the goalscorer and we're bringing on Cudjoe (ffs! ) and the young academy laddie.   ... Didnae take Einstein tae see it coming.
2/ Twice in a row ba has looped over Walton's fingertips: coincidence, 2 inches in height, or not quite reading the game well enough.   All other things being equal a good tall goalie will always trump an equally good goalie 2 or 3 inches shorter.
3/ Foreby that their goalie plays a blinder against us once again.

Last edited by Shakey Isles Arab (20/2/2024 10:30 pm)