Tekel Towers » Goal kicks.

CCX2 2010 · 10/10/2023 5:43 pm

Only a matter of time for me before we get caught out with this nonsense in my opinion.

One of two things are going to happen.

1- we lose the ball on our 6 yard line and it's a tap in for the opposition.

2-.one of these lunatic refs are going to award the opposition a penalty. On Saturday I though Walton had taken the by kick only for holt to stop it with his hand. Anyone else see/think this?

It will be interesting to see if we continue with this when the pitches get a but heavier.

Thoughts?

kiwiarab · 10/10/2023 8:15 pm

I'm interested to hear from anyone who coaches or has studied data on football, on the thinking behind this tactic.

It seems obvious to me that at this level of football, we should be keeping it simple. Play the ball long to our striker, if we don't win the first ball, have players in a position to win the second ball. Even if we don't win the second ball, then we have the majority of our players behind the ball in a safe area of the pitch.

Snacks94 · 10/10/2023 9:23 pm

CCX2 2010 wrote:
Only a matter of time for me before we get caught out with this nonsense in my opinion.

One of two things are going to happen.

1- we lose the ball on our 6 yard line and it's a tap in for the opposition.

2-.one of these lunatic refs are going to award the opposition a penalty. On Saturday I though Walton had taken the by kick only for holt to stop it with his hand. Anyone else see/think this?

It will be interesting to see if we continue with this when the pitches get a but heavier.

Thoughts?

On point 2 - yes! Had a heart attack at one point as it looked very much like Walton had taken the kick and I looked at the ref as Holt picked it up fearing the worst…

Canadian Arab · 10/10/2023 11:29 pm

kiwiarab wrote:
I'm interested to hear from anyone who coaches or has studied data on football, on the thinking behind this tactic.

It seems obvious to me that at this level of football, we should be keeping it simple. Play the ball long to our striker, if we don't win the first ball, have players in a position to win the second ball. Even if we don't win the second ball, then we have the majority of our players behind the ball in a safe area of the pitch.

These days, if you lose possession in an area where the opposition have a decent numbers advantage (e.g. a long punt up to Moult with Watt playing off him, our two wingers still 35 yards away on either side, and with two CHs and a keeper behind Moult, a CDM in front of Moult and two tucked-in full backs 15 yards wide on either side) then there's little chance of quickly regaining possession and you could be working your arse off for quite a while before you get the ball back. It doesn't mean it couldn't pay off, but I think we need more pace and more finishing quality up front for it to be likely that it pays off often enough to justify doing it regularly.
If you play it out from the back, either the opposition will let you have it in your own defending third (which means if you decide to ping a long one up to your striker, you're hitting a 40 yard ball instead of a 60 yard ball) or they'll play a high press (where either they do a good job, but still leave 40 yards of space behind their back line, or they make an error with the numbers pressing or with their angles of support, giving you the chance to play through one or two lines quickly and creating a 3-on-3 or similar on the edge of their defending third). In theory it's not complicated - you set your team up and get the ball into play then, if the opposition do X then our players do P, if the opposition do Y then our players do Q and if the opposition do Z then our players do R. A quality opposition manager will then get his players to do something a bit different and if we don't have lads who can adapt as a unit on the fly then they take advantage of the confusion caused. So it's not without risk.
If you have someone playing nearer the back who can drop a 45 or 50 yard ball on a sixpence, I personally would be making use of that. Specially for a diagonal switch - like we've seen Ross Graham do a number of times. Opens things right up and keeps the opposition honest.

Finn Seemann · 11/10/2023 10:47 am

I don't mind it if we mix it up now and again. Doing it every goal kick just makes it obvious and yes the tactic (which I also saw on Match of the Day) of the keeper moving it to the defender to touch it an take the kick back to the keeper will end up in a pen at some point.

CCX2 2010 · 11/10/2023 11:03 am

Finn Seemann wrote:
I don't mind it if we mix it up now and again. Doing it every goal kick just makes it obvious and yes the tactic (which I also saw on Match of the Day) of the keeper moving it to the defender to touch it an take the kick back to the keeper will end up in a pen at some point.

The Colin Stevens and David Munros of this world will be itching to give a pen for this and get themselves all the headlines.

CCX2 2010 · 11/10/2023 11:04 am

Snacks94 wrote:
CCX2 2010 wrote:
Only a matter of time for me before we get caught out with this nonsense in my opinion.

One of two things are going to happen.

1- we lose the ball on our 6 yard line and it's a tap in for the opposition.

2-.one of these lunatic refs are going to award the opposition a penalty. On Saturday I though Walton had taken the by kick only for holt to stop it with his hand. Anyone else see/think this?

It will be interesting to see if we continue with this when the pitches get a but heavier.

Thoughts?
It's in the post Snacks, if it's going to happen I just hope it doesn't cost us in a big game.

On point 2 - yes! Had a heart attack at one point as it looked very much like Walton had taken the kick and I looked at the ref as Holt picked it up fearing the worst…

Arab99 · 11/10/2023 12:31 pm

kiwiarab wrote:
I'm interested to hear from anyone who coaches or has studied data on football, on the thinking behind this tactic.

It seems obvious to me that at this level of football, we should be keeping it simple. Play the ball long to our striker, if we don't win the first ball, have players in a position to win the second ball. Even if we don't win the second ball, then we have the majority of our players behind the ball in a safe area of the pitch.

Almost any long ball is automatically a 50/50 at best. I watched Walton kick 2 long balls straight to rovers players on Sunday, no one to challenge.

Your point about this level of football might be relevant other than the fact I'm watching boys teams play out from the back.

You do take a chance of getting caught out playing from the back but probably less chance of losing posession than punting it up the field.

I do feel frustration at times at not getting it up the pitch fast enough but for me that a different issue not resolved by hoofing it up the pitch.

Shakey Isles Arab · 11/10/2023 10:56 pm

CCX2 2010 wrote:
Only a matter of time for me before we get caught out with this nonsense in my opinion.

One of two things are going to happen.

1- we lose the ball on our 6 yard line and it's a tap in for the opposition.

2-.one of these lunatic refs are going to award the opposition a penalty. On Saturday I though Walton had taken the by kick only for holt to stop it with his hand. Anyone else see/think this?

It will be interesting to see if we continue with this when the pitches get a but heavier.

Thoughts?

How far into the game mate ?

CCX2 2010 · 12/10/2023 12:00 pm

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:
CCX2 2010 wrote:
Only a matter of time for me before we get caught out with this nonsense in my opinion.

One of two things are going to happen.

1- we lose the ball on our 6 yard line and it's a tap in for the opposition.

2-.one of these lunatic refs are going to award the opposition a penalty. On Saturday I though Walton had taken the by kick only for holt to stop it with his hand. Anyone else see/think this?

It will be interesting to see if we continue with this when the pitches get a but heavier.

Thoughts?
How far into the game mate ?

Mid way through the first half.

Walton touches the ball to stop it on the 6 yard line, weve got our two CHs either side of him. He passes it to Holt who again touches it with his hand before Holt takes the goal kick.

Your David Munros and Colin Stevens of this world will jump on this to make themselves the center of attention.

Last edited by CCX2 2010 (12/10/2023 12:00 pm)

Finn Seemann · 12/10/2023 6:07 pm

Arab99 wrote:
kiwiarab wrote:
I'm interested to hear from anyone who coaches or has studied data on football, on the thinking behind this tactic.

It seems obvious to me that at this level of football, we should be keeping it simple. Play the ball long to our striker, if we don't win the first ball, have players in a position to win the second ball. Even if we don't win the second ball, then we have the majority of our players behind the ball in a safe area of the pitch.

Almost any long ball is automatically a 50/50 at best. I watched Walton kick 2 long balls straight to rovers players on Sunday, no one to challenge.

Your point about this level of football might be relevant other than the fact I'm watching boys teams play out from the back.

You do take a chance of getting caught out playing from the back but probably less chance of losing posession than punting it up the field.

I do feel frustration at times at not getting it up the pitch fast enough but for me that a different issue not resolved by hoofing it up the pitch.

Your point on long balls is a fair one, but we've got 6 non defenders on the pitch and they need to be options some of the time. You are right that the long ball just isn't on with this team. Not even as an option. On Saturday, Watt, Middleton and Fotheringham made no effort to challenge for the few that were 'punted', although Walton also seemed incapable of kicking it where our players were! Surely you pick the full back with the least heading ability and ask your best header of the ball to go challenge him now and again? That said we are also woeful at picking up the second ball. At ICT Watt seemed to forget he was playing CF when he came on and had a couple of great flick ons to areas where he should have been playing! It's bizarre to think a team that doesn't cope well with being pressed also has no long ball option.

Shakey Isles Arab · 12/10/2023 11:04 pm

CCX2 2010 wrote:
Shakey Isles Arab wrote:
CCX2 2010 wrote:
Only a matter of time for me before we get caught out with this nonsense in my opinion.

One of two things are going to happen.

1- we lose the ball on our 6 yard line and it's a tap in for the opposition.

2-.one of these lunatic refs are going to award the opposition a penalty. On Saturday I though Walton had taken the by kick only for holt to stop it with his hand. Anyone else see/think this?

It will be interesting to see if we continue with this when the pitches get a but heavier.

Thoughts?
How far into the game mate ?

Mid way through the first half.

Walton touches the ball to stop it on the 6 yard line, weve got our two CHs either side of him. He passes it to Holt who again touches it with his hand before Holt takes the goal kick.

Your David Munros and Colin Stevens of this world will jump on this to make themselves the center of attention.

Cheers CCX

No I didnae see it - it was so nonchalant.
But jeez, absolutely f...ing stupid.
If Raith had done it I'd be screaming for a pen.
If I was ref I'd be awarding it because it's nothing short of taking the piss.

Last edited by Shakey Isles Arab (12/10/2023 11:06 pm)