Tekel Towers » Young Prospects

BMT · 10/12/2022 11:59 am

Due to the lack of "real Football " over the last few weeks and going by the lack of interest in our youngsters in the gossip columns I'm a little bit depressed about the lack of talent coming through the academy as I can honestly say I've not seen any promising youths come through this season and not heard of any names to look out for. I read about our previous academy boss saying we have a lot of talent coming through but so far I've not seen any.

Tek · 11/12/2022 4:45 am

A good idea for a thread.

Let's be honest here. Completely honest.

Can any Utd fan name me ONE prospect who they feel is close to the first team

OR

Even will be in the next YEAR?

Even ONE.

dufc2019 · 11/12/2022 10:07 am

Tek wrote:
A good idea for a thread.

Let's be honest here. Completely honest.

Can any Utd fan name me ONE prospect who they feel is close to the first team

OR

Even will be in the next YEAR?

Even ONE.

I take it you dont think so ?

Stillliving · 11/12/2022 11:39 am

Tek wrote:
A good idea for a thread.

Let's be honest here. Completely honest.

Can any Utd fan name me ONE prospect who they feel is close to the first team

OR

Even will be in the next YEAR?

Even ONE.

Mochrie

BMT · 11/12/2022 11:55 am

Stillliving wrote:
Tek wrote:
A good idea for a thread.

Let's be honest here. Completely honest.

Can any Utd fan name me ONE prospect who they feel is close to the first team

OR

Even will be in the next YEAR?

Even ONE.

Mochrie

According to the archive he will be 20 next year has 20 appearances , 5 starts and none this season.

Shedtastic · 11/12/2022 1:36 pm

A young lad called Stuart Heenan is a hot prospect apparently, only 17 and playing regularly for older age groups.

Tek · 11/12/2022 4:01 pm

dufc2019 wrote:
Tek wrote:
A good idea for a thread.

Let's be honest here. Completely honest.

Can any Utd fan name me ONE prospect who they feel is close to the first team

OR

Even will be in the next YEAR?

Even ONE.
I take it you dont think so ?

I don't, no.

The Pre-Goldie supply chain has ran dry and i really don't see the Academy producing despite the clubs very public self-lauding of itself in that regard.

Arab99 · 11/12/2022 4:35 pm

Dev game Tuesday at Gussie apparently, perhaps folk could see for themselves

Arab99 · 11/12/2022 5:18 pm

United Arab Emarite wrote:
If we ever got to see any of them it would help.
I mean when they're playing in their own league.
In a broad context the SPFL/SFA (don't know who's responsible) organisation of football below 1st team level is a non-event shambles.
On checking our reserves (or 'B 'team they call it) have played all of 4 games this season, one in Elgin, one at Hibs training ground, one at Rugby Park & one at our home ground, the HPC at St Andrews University at a midweek 2pm. Four games!!
Footballers at any level want to be playing football.
In my amateur day I would play over 30 Saturday games per season, more often than not a Sunday game as well & then on many occasion over a 25-year career played TWO games on a Sunday on top of the Saturday game.
Not suggesting that extensive schedule for the hard-worked pro players of today but they've got to be playing more & we've got to be able to watch them.

So I haven't a scooby who's any good.

suspect most of the b/dev guys will be on loan or involved in the 18s so they should be getting games through that.
Other than DF podcast don’t think they get enough coverage on social media, media to help supporters make informed comment.

CCX2 2010 · 11/12/2022 5:59 pm

I don't watch any development games so can only comment on the young ones who have been given an opportunity in the first team.

I think that Ross Graham has a chance providing he has is coached well.

Mochrie and Meekison have a wee bit about them but nothing to get overly excited about.

I am not sure exactly where we are going wrong but since Stevie Campbell left we haven't seen anyone of any great potential come through.

It goes beyond that though and attracting young players to the club is obviously an issue, this was emphasised to the foundation members last week. There is no greater selling point when a club can point out a success story to parents whilst trying to sell the club, but we are short in that area.

One bright note (finance wise) was the sale of Kerr Smith but I think Villa just bought potential as I never seen anything that warranted a £2 million pound valuation.

Massive improvement required for the fans as we love nothing more than one of our own coming through.

AlwaysUnited · 11/12/2022 11:07 pm

There are loads of cracking young players coming through just now. It's not the right time to play them though, with the team bottom.

Once we climb the league in the weeks ahead I'm certain we'll see some real talent.

Lancashire-Arab · 12/12/2022 11:24 am

The challenge has always been getting game time and I cant see where any of our young players will get any first team experience beyond a 15 minute appearance at the end of a game. To come through they need to be starting games and being allowed to play the full 90. Not so sure that is possible in our current position but then what were the excuses previously.

If the talent is not there and is not coming through then we need to ask questions of the set up given the huge number of coaches and analysts we have why so few players seem to be ready for first team football when given the chance, i would argue had it not been for an injury crisis Ross Graham would not have been given a chance.

In my opinion we dont seem to be any better at bringing through players with the current academy process in place than we were prior to its implementation. Given that our business model is built around that moving forward it is critical that we see a greater return.

dufc2019 · 12/12/2022 1:04 pm

Found this on youtube. Mochrie at Dunfermline seems to be doing well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrmxdsHfqe8&t=60s

BMT · 31/12/2022 7:42 pm

Newcastle and another team supposedly interested in young Rory.

Arab99 · 31/12/2022 8:21 pm

BMT wrote:
Newcastle and another team supposedly interested in young Rory.

Southampton, they look at a lot of players up here

Mass Debates · 01/1/2023 9:33 pm

Craig Moore is likely the closest, Sam Harding was on the bench a couple of months ago but did his ACL so out longer term at the minute. A few others in that group who we’ll hopefully see in a year or two.

Tek · 01/1/2023 9:57 pm

Mass Debates wrote:
Craig Moore is likely the closest, Sam Harding was on the bench a couple of months ago but did his ACL so out longer term at the minute. A few others in that group who we’ll hopefully see in a year or two.

From what i've heard Moore has been really poor this season.

douglas arab · 11/1/2023 5:32 pm

What is the standard of coaching like in the academy? We currently have a youth team that have been really struggling for the last two seasons. As a result very few have been making an impact on the first team squad. This has impact on the first team as it means we have to recruit more players each summer as we are struggling to develop our own (been a few exceptions with mcleod, Smith, Graham and to a lesser extent Mochrie and Meekison)

Fergivicious · 12/1/2023 11:21 am

I feel no youngster is being developed for the first team, but instead to be sold at the first possible moment for X amount. Take the substitute appearances of Kerr Smith and Rory MacLeod, I see that as purely for the shop window when a TV broadcast comes around. Those who seem to stick around aren't good enough to sell but can be decent in the squad. But for those who show more promise, it's an easy 500k for Utd and teams like Newcastle will pay that as they've lost more running for the bus.

We also have to remember all these top players we think are coming through, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic, Rangers and probably the likes of St. Mirren etc. have the same amount if not more promising talents in their ranks.

CCX2 2010 · 12/1/2023 5:47 pm

Fergivicious wrote:
I feel no youngster is being developed for the first team, but instead to be sold at the first possible moment for X amount. Take the substitute appearances of Kerr Smith and Rory MacLeod, I see that as purely for the shop window when a TV broadcast comes around. Those who seem to stick around aren't good enough to sell but can be decent in the squad. But for those who show more promise, it's an easy 500k for Utd and teams like Newcastle will pay that as they've lost more running for the bus.

We also have to remember all these top players we think are coming through, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic, Rangers and probably the likes of St. Mirren etc. have the same amount if not more promising talents in their ranks.

I agree as you mention its saddens me that we have devalued the honour of wearing the Jersey by giving it to young boys who are nowhere near ready for it but would increase there selling price if they had a few first team starts at such a young age.

Nobody has caught my eye since Ryan Gauld appeared, hard guy to follow but since then absolutely nothing.

For all these Ipads, thousands of coaches with big jackets absolutely nada.

lifesanocean · 12/1/2023 8:52 pm

Fergivicious wrote:
I feel no youngster is being developed for the first team, but instead to be sold at the first possible moment for X amount. Take the substitute appearances of Kerr Smith and Rory MacLeod, I see that as purely for the shop window when a TV broadcast comes around. Those who seem to stick around aren't good enough to sell but can be decent in the squad. But for those who show more promise, it's an easy 500k for Utd and teams like Newcastle will pay that as they've lost more running for the bus.

We also have to remember all these top players we think are coming through, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtic, Rangers and probably the likes of St. Mirren etc. have the same amount if not more promising talents in their ranks.

Great post. I'm swithering about keeping up my Foundation membership for this very reason. I'm not paying money to help the club develop an academy who's real purpose appears the be developing young players for Premiership u23 teams and helping Ogren get his money back with no discernible benefit to United's first team. I don't identify with the youth players coming through any more for that reason. Sunday was a clear example with McLeod put on when imho he's nothing like ready for mens football, whilst a dying on his feet and totally disinterested Levitt was left on a good 15 mins longer than he should have been, because the manager clearly doesn't rate Archie Meekison. If that's the case he should be moved on, not allowed to just hang around the club (like Glass and Chalmers) so they can continue to push this bullshit narrative that young players get a chance and are integral to the club. Players like Glass, Graham, Freeman, Chalmers, Appere and Robson were all products of the pre-Ogren youth policy. All of them started games under McNamara, McKinnon or Lazlo. We have yet to see anyone from the Goldie-led youth team make any sustained impression on the first team, and the only ones who've gotten close (Smith, Neilson) have been moved on asap whilst it appears McLeod will be away soon as well (ie whilst he still has value, the longer he goes without making a real impression, the less value he has).

I've said this before: I go to Utd to cheer on the best team available with players developed for the purpose of competing for trophies and European places. I do not go to cheer on a balance sheet.

Last edited by lifesanocean (12/1/2023 10:21 pm)

kiwiarab · 13/1/2023 7:10 am

Lifesanocean raises a really interesting, and deep point. What is the purpose of a football club?

In my opinion, at its most basic level its about providing entertainment and a distraction from life and all its challenges, for supporters. Even if its only for 90 minutes on a Saturday afternoon.

There are other things. A sense of identity, continuity within life when other things that you can't control change, and a passion that can be shared across generations.

The two scottish cup wins I have seen will love with me forever, up there with the happiest days of my life. The bank balance thing only really comes into it if there is a risk that the club goes bust and you lose that connection.

The youth aspect to me is about a connection with the community. I am involved in grass roots football over here and the opportunity there is for a kid to progress through the levels and achieve their dream of playing for their team. Success here is a role model for other kids, and achieving goals/dreams like winning trophies or playing in Europe, not being sold after a handful of appearances.

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble, its Friday night here and I have had a few shandies

BMT · 13/1/2023 7:20 am

kiwiarab wrote:
Lifesanocean raises a really interesting, and deep point. What is the purpose of a football club?

In my opinion, at its most basic level its about providing entertainment and a distraction from life and all its challenges, for supporters. Even if its only for 90 minutes on a Saturday afternoon.

There are other things. A sense of identity, continuity within life when other things that you can't control change, and a passion that can be shared across generations.

The two scottish cup wins I have seen will love with me forever, up there with the happiest days of my life. The bank balance thing only really comes into it if there is a risk that the club goes bust and you lose that connection.

The youth aspect to me is about a connection with the community. I am involved in grass roots football over here and the opportunity there is for a kid to progress through the levels and achieve their dream of playing for their team. Success here is a role model for other kids, and achieving goals/dreams like winning trophies or playing in Europe, not being sold after a handful of appearances.

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble, its Friday night here and I have had a few shandies

Good post and completely agree.

douglas arab · 13/1/2023 9:36 am

some really good points raised. we are going to be lucky if we see any young player play 15/20 games now. but I guess the foundation think the improvements of Gussie will also help kids post MO

Finn Seemann · 13/1/2023 9:58 am

Really good point from Lifesanocean. I think the driver for this is the fact that sell on clauses are now so prevalent. We are not going to sell anyone for £20M, but if we sell many for £400,000 at 16/17 then there is a chance that one of them goes for £20M and we might get 30% of that which would clearly be transformational. Say Souttar, Smith and then McLeod sell on at that price bracket over the next 5 years we would be quids in. But if that model proved successful does MO just take the cash and keep the Academy churning out youngsters that might make it elsewhere? Certainly looks like the plan at the moment.

I'm with Lifesanocean. We as fans cannot be expected to keep the 'show on the road' while our investment is simply shovelled into a potential return for the distant owner should we strike a seam of youth player gold (which I suspect is itself a pipe dream anyway).

I'm fed up with football burning young kids dreams at the altar of lining agents pockets and I am afraid that we as a club are part of the problem. What is the much vaunted player pathway? How does it work when you are paying old guys like Mulgrew, Fletcher and Pawlett the big bucks.

I'm going along to Easter Road tomorrow. First game since AZ. I'm now stuck with away games as I am not giving Ogren/Asghar another penny.