Tekel Towers » Over to you Mr Ogren

Danzaa · 06/11/2022 11:34 am

Our recruitment and squad development are a shambles, those responsible and in charge of the strategy for these areas need punted asap
Yes we got Levitt back but he's the round hole in a team full of square pegs. That signing doesnt make up for all of Djoum, Sibbald, Fletcher, Middleton, Sadat, McGrath plus the Harkes extension.
Arguably all luxury players which you buy when you take care of the basics, I'd argue we have forgotten about the basics.
The recruitment of the current main coach, keepers and defence is way short of what we as fans expect never mind being way below Premier league standard. For the amount of money us fans have paid during covid, and continue to pay to support this club during current hard times , this is a disgrace
We have assembled a combination of soft, unfit, poor attitude, has beens and unfortunately never will be's. Its unlikely any of this squad will make a decent return in future if sold.
We have a squad of cowards who seem to only turn up in free hit games, I include Hibs and Aberdeen in this. We haven't beaten any of the supposed relegation candidates
I question if any manager could keep a team up with these players and their attitude/mentality, but this is the cock the manager/coach was told he has to piss with.
In this league, clean sheets and scoring goals move you quickly up the league, we have somehow managed to bring in a collection of the worst keepers and defence ever seen in a tangerine shirt, so we are at least 1 goal behind when we take to the pitch. We also let in late goals, that combination is brutal. We can't blame them though, thats the level the recruitment process team thought was good enough.

Other team's keepers and/or defence have had howlers in some games but, we have multiple howlers in pretty much every game. We bring in a novice manager/coach to not only train but to motivate this lot. Someone who's man and game management is sadly lacking. Can't blame him though, the finger firmly gets pointed at the people in charge of the selection process.
All of the players and staff have jumped at the chance of being perceived as good enough to be in a top 6 Premier League team, the fact they are not good enough is the failure of those in charge of the hiring.

Moving on, turning up and winning games against bottom half is more important than ever. This closes the gap and drags them into a relegation battle.
Killie is a must win make no mistake, we won't be relegated if we don't win but we'll have played 15, some of our perceived rivals have played less.
With 18 to go til the split, we'll have a lot to do not to be in bottom 2. This is where not beating our closest will bite us.
Against teams that would kick their granny we are a soft touch. The bottom 6 especially will be full of these. We can out play them and get more corners yes, but we can't do the main thing and that's to score more than we concede
Killie game will give us momentum, either we lose and we are in end of season play offs with the likes of Thistle, Dundee, Ayr or Morton at best, or we win and there's a chance . BUT that needs followed up with quality recruitment to take place in this window, undertaken and overseen by someone competent. This then needs to continue.

Unitedinpursuit is very apt, we're behind in everything we are meant to be doing.
Ogren needs only look at the league table and my first sentence and not allow a repeat.
If Ogren doesn't find solutions then he's very much part of the problem, in which case I fear for our club.

Last edited by Danzaa (06/11/2022 11:38 am)

Billy_Hainey · 06/11/2022 11:38 am

Excellent post.

Snacks94 · 06/11/2022 2:09 pm

Always remember years ago Alex Ferguson saying that first priority should always be building a good defence in front of a good goalkeeper, without that everything else is pretty pointless. That’s what we’re seeing now at United - plenty decent, tidy footballers- Levitt, McGrath and Meekison for example but defensively we are an absolute embarrassment. If we don’t fix this then we’re down.

CCX2 2010 · 06/11/2022 3:46 pm

Great Post Danzaa.

Billy_Hainey · 06/11/2022 4:14 pm

And BTW, in case naebodys noticed, the Midden, Livi and the Rubber Johnnies are 10 points in front oe us, and its only November.

Lancashire-Arab · 06/11/2022 6:19 pm

Good Post.

Our recent history with Managers prior to our relegation is one of the reasons we seem to have trouble recruiting the right talent. And where we finished last year reated a false sense of reality for some who could not see the teams frailties.

Th Ogrens have spent the money as players like Watt and Fletcher cannot be cheap but as you say it is the spine of the team we have an issue with. Our defence has no confidence with either goalkeeper and we need a new signing in January, we also need a no nonsense central defender and a ball winning midfielder expecting Levitt to be both ball winner and creative outlet is very naive. The biggest issue is the person making the signings and what they think is good enough.

Finn Seemann · 07/11/2022 10:22 am

Until Asghar goes this is the future we have to look forward to.

Danzaa · 31/1/2023 9:49 am

Another lengthy one apologies, but regardless of who the opponents were,that showing on Sunday was nothing short of a disgrace.

Our fate lies with Ogren's motives and ambitions.
Does this align with the supporters, Tony's or Fox's? At the moment it's up for debate.
Yes Ogren should expect a return from money invested, which relies partly on Tony's wheeling and dealing and from monies spent by the fans.
The supporters have also invested and expect a return, we rely on what we see and get back from the players on the park.
Based on where we were when he took the job, Fox has by all accounts exceeded fans expectations by getting enough points to realistically give the club a chance of avoiding the Fun league.
This should have been made certain by acting the second this window opened. Why has this not happened? Either Fox is happy or he's went asking Tony. Tony is either happy or went asking Ogren.

What surely is certain is that both Ogren and the fans cannot be satisfied with how the season has went and February's fixtures may well define it.
A good set of results will buy Ogren credits in the form of time from the fans and probably lays the foundation for a good cup run and a reasonable league placing. This would give funds to get a competitive squad in place for next season.

But what if its a poor February? Then it would not be too long before the question of who is happy and who is being taken for granted gets asked.

If Ogren and Tony do not want to answer this then why have they not taken action to ensure they cannot be held culpable.
The answer may well be that Ogren can't or wont in which case thats down to Tony's Del Boy act and the results of his hiring and transfer decisions. As a result he would simply have to get booted.
Actively improving areas where everyone including opposing teams knows we are weak would have put the spotlight on Fox to get results.

Tony is taking one hell of a chance if he doesnt bring in better as he would rightly or wrongly be the scapegoat.

I won't hold my breath for any incoming today as I do believe we will just about survive, but come end of summer window, we need to be in this league with the dross cast adrift and with a much better squad and starting 11.

If not we then we are on the road to becoming a nothing club with no identity or ambition, which is unacceptable.

Finn Seemann · 31/1/2023 10:40 am

Danzaa, Tony doesn't think he is taking a chance. He is, erroneously, that full of his own self importance that he'll just think he can move on to another unsuspecting football club owner if it all goes pear shaped. He'll lay the blame firmly at Ogren's door for not backing him appropriately, that or Covid decimating his wunder plan.

I don't think we'll sign anyone today and Watt will go leaving us with a dodgy keeper, an unbalanced and slow defence with poor distribution, a lightweight midfield and a threadbare forward line, complimented by a bench of kids and old guys. Just as well we've got so much talent coming through the Academy pipeline....

What they have done to the talent that was Levitt is criminal. He needs to get out of Tannadice pronto to save his career.

As predicted, Tony is going to kill our club.

Last edited by Finn Seemann (31/1/2023 10:42 am)

Finn Seemann · 31/1/2023 2:50 pm

That Lewis Neilson compensation would have been very handy this window. Thanks for that Big Tone....

Rick Dagless · 31/1/2023 2:59 pm

Last time Ogren was over he was telling fans that he fully expected that this team would be top 6 and that there was no way we were getting relegated.
Tony must be spinning him some tales.

Last edited by Rick Dagless (31/1/2023 3:01 pm)

AlwaysUnited · 31/1/2023 7:05 pm

Have a bit of respect for the man, FFS. He's put in millions of his own money, steered the club through Covid, and build a very decent squad.

Rick Dagless · 31/1/2023 7:06 pm

AlwaysUnited wrote:
Have a bit of respect for the man, FFS. He's put in millions of his own money, steered the club through Covid, and build a very decent squad.

There he is.

You almost made it with a credible post until that last sentence.

SlatefordArab · 31/1/2023 7:39 pm

Finn Seemann wrote:
That Lewis Neilson compensation would have been very handy this window. Thanks for that Big Tone....

You can thank Tam for that one, not Tone.

Shakey Isles Arab · 31/1/2023 10:44 pm

AlwaysUnited wrote:
Have a bit of respect for the man, FFS. He's put in millions of his own money, steered the club through Covid, and build a very decent squad.

.... He's hired and stood by Big Fat Charlatan Tony

Danzaa · 01/2/2023 8:02 am

Let's remember that Tony travels the world to give speeches on recruitment.
Tony needs to stay away from Tannadice if the next 2 aways don't go well as this relationship is on the brink of toxic. This city is a hard working city with less cash than ever. Whilst Ogren was praised for previous seasons achievements, this one has been a disgrace, but the fans responded to his requests to back his vision. This whilst tightening belts at home.

I accept there are folk on Twitter and on forums, for example AlwaysUnited and Shedka, that don't read the room and accept whatever is served.
The majority of fans are scunnered and the hunger and desire has turned to emptiness and worry. This is down to being force fed with unappealing, unsatisfying rubbish. The promise of a stronger squad post window has been broken, the opposite has happened, our squad is weaker, unacceptable is an understatement.
Fox managed to rid the dressing room of a poisonous Tony, its time Ogren gets shot of the real snake, the one responsible for the growing discontent in the hearts of the folk who matter and part with their hard earned.
Ogren is running out of credits, he acted when it was clear Jack Ross was found wanting, if he wants to avoid the inevitable flak that will ensue, he needs to take action against the recruitment lead and get rid of the correct Tony once and for all.

February is huge, I for one am worried if it doesnt go well results wise.

Finn Seemann · 01/2/2023 10:12 am

SlatefordArab wrote:
Finn Seemann wrote:
That Lewis Neilson compensation would have been very handy this window. Thanks for that Big Tone....
You can thank Tam for that one, not Tone.

Not following this. Buck stops with Director of Everything. You seem to be blaming the feck up on Tam but seeing he was, I think, gone by then and was, in any case, only picking the team, I don't understand your point. In any case, as I say the buck stops with the charlatan. That is an error that might cost us top division survival. £250K would have been very handy yesterday as it is totally clear that Ogren has withdrawn further support for recruitment. Indeed we are clearly in reduce overheads mode. I just hope Ogren sees that his biggest overhead, literally, is the fat controller.

Rick Dagless · 01/2/2023 10:33 am

SlatefordArab wrote:
Finn Seemann wrote:
That Lewis Neilson compensation would have been very handy this window. Thanks for that Big Tone....
You can thank Tam for that one, not Tone.

Dundee United don't have a football manager position anymore, only a head coach in charge of training and picking the squad for match days.

Player recruitment and contract negotiations is all Asghar.

Last edited by Rick Dagless (01/2/2023 10:33 am)

SlatefordArab · 01/2/2023 4:25 pm

Finn Seemann wrote:
SlatefordArab wrote:
Finn Seemann wrote:
That Lewis Neilson compensation would have been very handy this window. Thanks for that Big Tone....
You can thank Tam for that one, not Tone.
Not following this. Buck stops with Director of Everything. You seem to be blaming the feck up on Tam but seeing he was, I think, gone by then and was, in any case, only picking the team, I don't understand your point. In any case, as I say the buck stops with the charlatan. That is an error that might cost us top division survival. £250K would have been very handy yesterday as it is totally clear that Ogren has withdrawn further support for recruitment. Indeed we are clearly in reduce overheads mode. I just hope Ogren sees that his biggest overhead, literally, is the fat controller.

I have a really good source at Tynecastle.

Neilson was offered a contract but Tam told him he'd only ever be a backup player for him if he signed it. Ross wanted to keep him, but by then Neilson had already agreed to join Hearts after what Tam told him. Hearts are at it claiming he was not offered a contract, because he was.

Last edited by SlatefordArab (01/2/2023 4:26 pm)

Lancashire-Arab · 01/2/2023 5:36 pm

SlatefordArab wrote:
Neilson was offered a contract but Tam told him he'd only ever be a backup player for him if he signed it. Ross wanted to keep him, but by then Neilson had already agreed to join Hearts after what Tam told him. Hearts are at it claiming he was not offered a contract, because he was.

That makes more sense, his trigger to look for a new club was being told he wouldn't get a chance to start - now we are playing a full back there.

However for the tribunal to not find in our favour we must not have followed some of the FIFA rules on how a new contract is offered to an under 24 player - which falls on the clubs administrators which would mean our Sporting Director.

So between them they have cost us a player and compensation for that player

Tangy · 01/2/2023 5:36 pm

In no way defending the club or Asghar at all, as i'm not particularly happy about the lack of movement IN however, the club spent BIG at the start of the season. We then had an unmitigated disaster under Ross and we find ourselves where we are. Top 6 this season is a pipedream - so if they are confident they have a team to keep us up, i can see they might want to save some wages of somebody who may not be good for the group of players and a keeper that was never going to feature again at the club, in reality.

The bit i don't get is the press cuttings/leaking things to the press about how we are this that or the other - maybe the offers for McLeod/Behich were key to any movement?

Do i like it? No. Do i understand it? Maybe, kinda.

Finn Seemann · 02/2/2023 9:24 am

Tangy wrote:
In no way defending the club or Asghar at all, as i'm not particularly happy about the lack of movement IN however, the club spent BIG at the start of the season. We then had an unmitigated disaster under Ross and we find ourselves where we are. Top 6 this season is a pipedream - so if they are confident they have a team to keep us up, i can see they might want to save some wages of somebody who may not be good for the group of players and a keeper that was never going to feature again at the club, in reality.

The bit i don't get is the press cuttings/leaking things to the press about how we are this that or the other - maybe the offers for McLeod/Behich were key to any movement?

Do i like it? No. Do i understand it? Maybe, kinda.

The issue is that the Fat Controller is a charlatan. Jetting around the world lecturing others on how to recruit and develop talent when his own club are a total clusterfuck from top to bottom. The Ross era was a mess. My own view is that Ross was never going to be a Yes man and therefore Tony had to have him moved on to protect his own position. He was likely undermined from the start. Whilst we spent big(ish), we never actually cured many of our failings and as you can see from last night's game against Killie where we had to face around 30 shots on goal, we still haven't sorted out the defensive side of midfield whilst doing our very best to make our best asset (the securing of Levitt) look like the worst player in the league. Asghar has no clue how to build a team. Either that or the team is just secondary to his abominable attempts to make money.

Asghar out

Last edited by Finn Seemann (02/2/2023 9:25 am)