Tek wrote:

It baffles me that people think recruiting players is some kind of rocket science that has to entail a group of people brain storming for weeks on end and analysing stats to death.

It's really not all that difficult. 
 

 
I'm guessing Moneyball isn't one of your favourite films then...

Tek wrote:

@nomad
On the contrary, i actually really like that film.

But, even though the film is based on a true story, the concept of recruitment in the film (in terms of success) was very much the exception, rather than the rule.
 

I would also add that their main signing criteria in that film was that players 'got on base'. They weren't interested in exciting big hitters or boys who could hit home runs, just people who could grind them through games.

Sound familiar?
 

All managers will to a greater or lesser extent make shite signings and unearth some gems.

Classic example Ralphy for us 24carat for Fergie sadly turned out to be one their worst ever.

My difficulty with Asghar is that never having played the game, does he have any clue other than agents and scouts recommendations?   He needs to make time to get himself out there at grassroots level and unearth gems. Or does he consider himself to far up the food chain.     

Hate to keep coming back to the late great JYM but if Asghar could spend just bit more time himself going round boys club games etc. and do some scouting of his own he might hit on  some gems himself.

Tbf he has made good signings, but they move on and the hunt for new talent needs widening.
Old school basics Tony.

 

Last edited by Shakey Isles Arab (31/5/2022 4:41 am)

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:

All managers will to a greater or lesser extent make shite signings and unearth some gems.

Classic example Ralphy for us 24carat for Fergie sadly turned out to be one their worst ever.

My difficulty with Asghar is that never having played the game, does he have any clue other than agents and scouts recommendations?   He needs to make time to get himself out there at grassroots level and unearth gems. Or does he consider himself to far up the food chain.     

Hate to keep coming back to the late great JYM but if Asghar could spend just bit more time himself going round boys club games etc. and do some scouting of his own he might hit on  some gems himself.

Tbf he has made good signings, but they move on and the hunt for new talent needs widening.
Old school basics Tony.

 

 
I think Asghar would regard you as a dinosaur. He sees himself as an innovator. The MSD he did at Manchester Met University has been pivotal to his thinking. He is obsessive about detail (training, diet, lifestyle and mental fortitude). Even under Mellon the mantra was incremental improvement on a day to day basis. Very simply there is no “B” plan.

Even the end of season interviews (his and Court’s) were carefully designed to promote a particular message (did anyone notice that Court’s managed to say that he was a “custodian” of the club?).

As far as playing the game is concerned, it is worth noting that Morhino never played the game.

I think it’s fair to say Asghar would have dealt with characters like Ralph Milne, Andy McLaren, Duncan Ferguson and Goodwillie much much better than the incumbent managers at the time. I’m quite sure he would have got them counselling or whatever treatment they needed.

All that said, it is absolutely, a results driven business. If we look at another graduate of the MSD course, Ashley Giles, (head of men’s cricket, England), he was forced to resign after the team underperformed.

For me, I will support my team. I was completely wrong about this season. If it subsequently falls apart, I’m not going to say “I told you do”

Canadian Arab wrote:

Had read all of the above comments and hadn't got round to watching the interview. Just had a chance to watch it now, and tried to keep an open mind, while remembering that the whole thing was almost certainly set up as a bit of a PR exercise.
Honestly, he did not, for me, come across as someone who is up their own arse, or a prick, or dislikable. I thought he gave very reasonable responses, I thought he showed a fair bit of humility, he stated several times that he has made many mistakes, and it was also obvious that he gets hurt by some of the criticism directed his way. That just tells me the guy is human, and he cares.
I've never met him, and that interview is the only time I've listened to him speak more extensively, rather than just sound bytes in response to some crisis or other. But based on that interview, I feel more confident about the leadership of the club than I did previously, in the direction they're trying to take things, and in the methods they're using.

Wait till you meet him in person and you ask him a question he isn't happy with, then you'll see the true nature of the man.
 

Shedtastic wrote:

Wait till you meet him in person and you ask him a question he isn't happy with, then you'll see the true nature of the man.
 

Did you ever meet Wee Jim? 😂
 

Canadian Arab wrote:

Shedtastic wrote:

Wait till you meet him in person and you ask him a question he isn't happy with, then you'll see the true nature of the man.
 

Did you ever meet Wee Jim? 😂
 

I did. And during our 25 minute conversation in his Chairman's office, i asked him probing questions about the club.

He answered them all honestly and passionately and treated myself and the Utd supporting friend i was with (Motherwellarab on here) with a lot of respect. In fact it was a measure of the man to invite us both to his office for a meeting on a matchday because he was getting a lot of flack at the time (this was 2000/2001, the year we never won at Tannadice for months).

He was fiery, but was there was zero arrogance to Jim McLean.
 

Last edited by Tek (03/6/2022 12:29 am)

Tek wrote:

I did. And during our 25 minute conversation in his Chairman's office, i asked him probing questions about the club.

He answered them all honestly and passionately and treated myself and the Utd supporting friend i was with (Motherwellarab on here) with a lot of respect. In fact it was a measure of the man to invite us both to his office for a meeting on a matchday because he was getting a lot of flack at the time (this was 2000/2001, the year we never won at Tannadice for months).

He was fiery, but was there was zero arrogance to Jim McLean.
 

Agreed Tek, though to be fair, most people would read shedtastic's original comment about Asghar and assume that he gets "prickly" when asked a question he doesn't like. That was true of Jim, and it's probably true of the vast majority of people. It's human nature. If I think someone is being a dick towards me, I'll admit my initial response is often to be sarcastic, dismissive of them and talk down to them, and that will come across as arrogant. Does that make me an arsehole? Maybe. Does it mean I am not capable of doing my job well? I don't think so.

All I can say about Asghar, based on the interview, is that to me he didn't come across as arrogant at all. He came across as someone invested in what he is doing, committed to the job, and who is touchy when criticism gets personal. Again, human nature.

Many people here will know a lot more about him than I do, and my take could be completely wrong. But I can only take him at face value.

Wee Jim famously went round to someone's house (in the Balgay Hill area IIRC) after they wrote a letter to the paper criticising his team selection, and had it out with them on their doorstep as he made it very clear to them that HE picked the team. These days, that person would go onto their United forum and pretty soon half the posts would be asking "Who the hell does he think he is, talking to fans like that - WE pay his wages!" etc. But that was Jim's nature. I'll criticise someone for not doing their job but it seems harsh to me to criticise someone for doing what looks like a pretty good job, but at the same time they rub some people up the wrong way.

Tony and his playing revel roulette is getting found out, yeh he got the occasional toffee (Shankland) but too often he gets a lot of the orange and coffee flavoured crappy ones.
We finally came up due to Shankland's goals. We stayed up but it was squeaky at times, we then got 4th.
Mellon and Courts sussed this is a crap league in terms of creative quality and played the defend for your lives to nick a point or 3 type of game. A game which demands heart and being switched on, currently we have neither.
Looking back Tony has been lucky and on the back of this arrogantly thought he had turned United back into a force.  He was lucky to land Shankland and lucky to land in a league at a time where it was utter gash.
Is it a coincidence that Neilson, Mellon and Courts all moved on because of this back seat driver, I think not.
I hope Ogren cops on and does not allow this fella to remain in charge of all things football. If he doesn't he deserves to lose the amount of dollars he inevitably will.
In the meantime come end of October we can only pray we have somehow found a way to be lucky again.

Last edited by Danzaa (21/8/2022 7:52 am)

Emptying Tony is the only option.  

Thankfully couldn't go yesterday, was thinking of going to Livi but just isn't any point. 

Lots of folk must be feeling the same.  The club can't afford for people to stay away so something has to give.

I'd say Mr. O would be giving serious consideration to giving Tony the flick and further reconsideration of how Scottish football works.    ie someone with full knowledge of the game as Sporting Director is a must.

- This cannot go on, Tony for the large part must carry the can, Tony is jeopardizing your investment Mr O.
Fair enough the players confidence is shattered and Ross looks shell shocked, but did we see it coming or did we see it coming ...     
- Clearly not to this extent, but if 1 v 0 v Livi when we took our eye off the ball followed by 7 v 0, 3 v 0 , 9 v 0 doesn't merit your immediate attention Mr O I don't know what will.

..... And you in turn must carry the can for Tony,  Mr O.

Two good posts above^
They strike right to the heart of the issue.  For what ever reason, Ogren has left Tony with too much power and not enough accountability.  He certainly seems to act as if he is the Ogrens and that their deal is that it is him at the helm or they're out.  But as Macbonzo says, when the Ogrens realise that they are going to lose their £10-12M there has to be a choice.  Pull the plug and say good times while they lasted (apparently they are looking at another European club anyway) and chuck the cash or ask themselves if there is a problem.  Is Tony the problem?  

I saw the Ogrens at Edinburgh airport after the Alkmaar defeat.  They looked like a couple of fans.  Father and son trip, just because they can.  It made me think that they are not that bothered about the money, but their pockets are not infinitely deep and they may just move on anyway.

There is a real danger that our owners aren't overly bothered and content for Tony to fiddle while Rome burns.  I am genuinely concerned for the long term future of our club.

Last edited by Finn Seemann (30/8/2022 9:42 am)