Tekel Towers » January transfer window

bowers · 29/1/2021 6:55 pm

Have the club confirmed they will take the loan? not seen any of this interview myself today so just wondering. MO be silly not to.

bowers · 29/1/2021 6:57 pm

dufc2019 wrote:
bowers wrote:
Daily record saying Adam King yo Raith on loan.
Of all the midfielders at united Raith could have got, why pick him ?

Maybe he is the only midfielder the club were willing and wanting to leave on loan? good chance to try and get game time. Doubt Raith have seen much if any of him tbf.

Tek · 29/1/2021 7:49 pm

LarsErikKjell wrote:
Tek wrote:
LarsErikKjell wrote:

Disappointing but not surprising at all. The fact Ogren is having to write a cheque to cover the shortfall each month means we'll need to use most of that cash to plug some serious gaps.

Hopefully that money can also be used to offer some pre-contracts to guys that can come in the summer.

He also said no outgoings apart from King to Raith. Benji especially is vital to our survival. No problem with Deniz but he is simply a solid no.2 imo and nothing more.
See these cheques Ogren is supposedly writing.

You do know that he will be treating that as a loan and will ultimately get every penny back?

To not give a tiny slice of that 1.7M to the Manager to improve the squad is a huge gamble to take.

Cant be sure if he will or not mate I'm nae businessman. But ultimately the fact that is even happening makes it unsurprising that he doesnt want to spend on players. Added to the fact Mellon has said he hasnt gone asking for players... which is hopefully a wind-up.

He 100% will be classing that money as a loan.

As he has every penny he has put into Utd so far.

None of the money he has put in is a benevolent grant.

It is very worrying just how much the Ogren's loan is growing too.

The fans are doing everything they can for the club only to be told that their money is just to keep the club alive.

The business strategy based on If, buts and maybes has put the very future of the club in jeopardy.

The Ogren's have some very tough, clinical decisions to make. Unfortunately i don't think they will make the requisite calls they need too.

UniDundee · 29/1/2021 9:53 pm

Tek wrote:
LarsErikKjell wrote:
Tek wrote:

See these cheques Ogren is supposedly writing.

You do know that he will be treating that as a loan and will ultimately get every penny back?

To not give a tiny slice of that 1.7M to the Manager to improve the squad is a huge gamble to take.

Cant be sure if he will or not mate I'm nae businessman. But ultimately the fact that is even happening makes it unsurprising that he doesnt want to spend on players. Added to the fact Mellon has said he hasnt gone asking for players... which is hopefully a wind-up.

He 100% will be classing that money as a loan.

It is very worrying just how much the Ogren's loan is growing too.

When we see the accounts for this year and next we will get a greater understanding of how much we owe Ogren. If its over £5m-£10m it will be years before he gets it back - will he wait?
If its over £10m - at least a decade - will he wait?

However, if he walks away he gets nothing back - and that is key to remember.

I still can't see how he will make money from this in Scottish football, I said this from the start when he said publicly he is here to make money. I see how TA makes money - hence the staff list!

Tek · 29/1/2021 10:11 pm

UniDundee wrote:
Tek wrote:
LarsErikKjell wrote:
Cant be sure if he will or not mate I'm nae businessman. But ultimately the fact that is even happening makes it unsurprising that he doesnt want to spend on players. Added to the fact Mellon has said he hasnt gone asking for players... which is hopefully a wind-up.

He 100% will be classing that money as a loan.

It is very worrying just how much the Ogren's loan is growing too.

When we see the accounts for this year and next we will get a greater understanding of how much we owe Ogren. If its over £5m-£10m it will be years before he gets it back - will he wait?
If its over £10m - at least a decade - will he wait?

However, if he walks away he gets nothing back - and that is key to remember.

I still can't see how he will make money from this in Scottish football, I said this from the start when he said publicly he is here to make money. I see how TA makes money - hence the staff list!

My prediction is that the Ogren's will realise (if they haven't already) that they cannot make money from DUFC and as you said it will take them years to even get the money back that they have already spent on the club.

They were sold a story of the period around 2014 when we sold GMS/Armstrong/Gauld and Robertson and were painted a vision that Utd could do this again and again.

In the 7 years almost since, who else have we sold? No one. How many Academy players have even broken through and became first team regulars? One = Jamie Robson. And he is very lucky to have had the number of appearances he has as we have never signed another Left Back to challenge him, unbelievably.

My further prediction is that in the next year or so the Ogren's will look to cut their losses and re-coup their money and sell to a group of local bussinessmen.

Probably propped up by funds from the DUSF (with the promise of them becoming shareholders, maybe even becoming majority shareholders in time depending on how much they put into the club over time).

bowers · 29/1/2021 10:17 pm

Tek wrote:
LarsErikKjell wrote:
Tek wrote:
See these cheques Ogren is supposedly writing.

You do know that he will be treating that as a loan and will ultimately get every penny back?

To not give a tiny slice of that 1.7M to the Manager to improve the squad is a huge gamble to take.

Cant be sure if he will or not mate I'm nae businessman. But ultimately the fact that is even happening makes it unsurprising that he doesnt want to spend on players. Added to the fact Mellon has said he hasnt gone asking for players... which is hopefully a wind-up.

He 100% will be classing that money as a loan.

As he has every penny he has put into Utd so far.

None of the money he has put in is a benevolent grant.

It is very worrying just how much the Ogren's loan is growing too.

The fans are doing everything they can for the club only to be told that their money is just to keep the club alive.

The business strategy based on If, buts and maybes has put the very future of the club in jeopardy.

The Ogren's have some very tough, clinical decisions to make. Unfortunately i don't think they will make the requisite calls they need too.

TEK.. just to be clear here..are you saying that every penny Ogren has put in to the club since he took over has been put in as a loan?

Last edited by bowers (29/1/2021 10:18 pm)

Tek · 29/1/2021 10:24 pm

bowers wrote:
Tek wrote:
LarsErikKjell wrote:

Cant be sure if he will or not mate I'm nae businessman. But ultimately the fact that is even happening makes it unsurprising that he doesnt want to spend on players. Added to the fact Mellon has said he hasnt gone asking for players... which is hopefully a wind-up.

He 100% will be classing that money as a loan.

As he has every penny he has put into Utd so far.

None of the money he has put in is a benevolent grant.

It is very worrying just how much the Ogren's loan is growing too.

The fans are doing everything they can for the club only to be told that their money is just to keep the club alive.

The business strategy based on If, buts and maybes has put the very future of the club in jeopardy.

The Ogren's have some very tough, clinical decisions to make. Unfortunately i don't think they will make the requisite calls they need too.

TEK.. just to be clear here..are you saying that every penny Ogren has put in to the club since he took over has been put in as a loan?

Essentially, yes.

Maybe not, every single penny. Perhaps there is an instance where he helped fund a signing from his own pocket (was rumours of him funding McNulty deal for instance).

But all other funds he has put in he will want back, if he ever leaves.

LarsErikKjell · 29/1/2021 10:26 pm

TA mentioned in his DUTV interview last week that Ogren has plans to invest even more in United over a number of years.

Tek · 29/1/2021 10:31 pm

LarsErikKjell wrote:
TA mentioned in his DUTV interview last week that Ogren has plans to invest even more in United over a number of years.

I'd be very surprised tbh.

He'd end up either losing a fortune or would have to stick around for 30 years or something to eventually make a profit on his asset.

I also don't think he's quite as wealthy as some of our fans may think. His own words from a few weeks back when the wage cuts were announced.

Shakey Isles Arab · 29/1/2021 11:16 pm

It's an investment not a loan.
Same principle you hope to put money in and get more out.
Difference being if it's an investment which has gone tits up for any reason (Covid for example), he's free to sell for the right money at the price and show total lack of scruples having been lent the DUSF 200,000.
Cannae see it.
For me I'd like to believe Ashgar when he says TO is in it for the long run.

Which leaves TO juggling act of:
1/ Short/medium term - sale of Benji/LOA
2/ Medium term - TV money
3/ Longer term - possible sale of graduates, which will happen
4/ Immediate term - Chalmers, Butch, Fuchs + Benji to return
5/ Immediate term - get rid of King + hopefully Pawlett. Re Pawlett I'm hoping it was a telling sign that he didnae get a game v Haccies/ Buddies
6/ Immediate term - somebody decent in before end of silly season. Knowing us it'll probably happpen final day, final hour - typical
7/ Anything else I've missed.

..... Christ, there's a lot of supposition there. I'm glad it's Ogrens money no mine.

.... All the above supposition takes 2nd place to Saturday v Hibs.
- We Must win.

Last edited by Shakey Isles Arab (29/1/2021 11:18 pm)

MockChop · 30/1/2021 12:23 am

Greg Stewart.

Snacks94 · 30/1/2021 12:29 am

MockChop wrote:
Greg Stewart.

What about him?

Tek · 30/1/2021 2:02 am

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:
It's an investment not a loan.

His purchase of DUFC is an investment, i agree. But that is not what i mean.

When he bought the club (as an asset i.e. Tannadice etc) he also bought out the debt the club were in at the time, as a 'loan. i.e. he wants that money back.

Any other cheques he is writing off to 'plug holes' are also 'loans'.

bowers · 30/1/2021 10:18 am

I dont think he has put in as many loans as you think. The man has invested an enormous ammount aswell as what he has put in as loans.

AlonsMosely · 30/1/2021 10:37 am

If he wants any sort of return, and that may be just recouping a percentage of what he has invested, it will not be done by walking away now. No choice but to be in it for the long term. Crowds will return....
On subject of selling academy players, since the golden era the academy was abandoned.....its always a risk with young players but with current investment it is not impossible to see more serious talent being unearthed.

Tek · 30/1/2021 11:32 am

AlonsMosely wrote:
If he wants any sort of return, and that may be just recouping a percentage of what he has invested, it will not be done by walking away now. No choice but to be in it for the long term. Crowds will return....
On subject of selling academy players, since the golden era the academy was abandoned.....its always a risk with young players but with current investment it is not impossible to see more serious talent being unearthed.

In the current situation he's just throwing money at a loss making business. That's the reality and it's not sustainable.

Again i reiterate, hard and clinical decisions need made at the end of the season regardless of what division we are in.

It's the only way to get the club out of this financial spiral.

Beharder · 30/1/2021 11:52 am

bowers wrote:
I read the info on the link earlier. And whilst i think some will be accurate some of them are laughable. There is no danger who ever has written it all knows the weekly payment of every player in the league. But you get idiots who believe everytbing they read online.

Worryingly that is true Bowers. I heard , I read. The ability to see that the vast majority of facts online are just made up is a dying art

kdyteejay · 30/1/2021 1:12 pm

Tek wrote:
LarsErikKjell wrote:
Tek wrote:
Despite the 1.7M loan incoming Mellon saying no signings incoming before Monday.😒

Totally shite season this and probably about to get worse.

Disappointing but not surprising at all. The fact Ogren is having to write a cheque to cover the shortfall each month means we'll need to use most of that cash to plug some serious gaps.

Hopefully that money can also be used to offer some pre-contracts to guys that can come in the summer.

He also said no outgoings apart from King to Raith. Benji especially is vital to our survival. No problem with Deniz but he is simply a solid no.2 imo and nothing more.
See these cheques Ogren is supposedly writing.

You do know that he will be treating that as a loan and will ultimately get every penny back?

To not give a tiny slice of that 1.7M to the Manager to improve the squad is a huge gamble to take.

Agree. If Cammy Smith is off books and now a couple of players loaned out you’d think we could at least get one player in.

31/1/2021 1:07 am

dufc2019 wrote:
smedDUm wrote:
dufc2019 wrote:
Of all the midfielders at united Raith could have got, why pick him ?
Maybe he's half decent?
Must be wondering why he can't at the very least get a subbie spot.
Yeah yeah I know we've at least a dozen midfielders.
But he must be wondering...

have you even seen him play? you wouldnt need to ask

Think I saw him for 12 minutes in one game & 4 minutes in another.
He came on for the last 20 mins at Starks Park today, Raith had taken a 3-1 lead on the hour
I'm sure the Rovers would have been happy with his contribution

LarsErikKjell · 31/1/2021 12:40 pm

Rumours today that Wigan are in for Ryan Edwards and Leicester are looking at Lewis Neilson.

LarsErikKjell · 02/2/2021 9:50 am

Our squad as the January window closes:

GK: B Seigrist, Deniz
RB: L Smith, K Freeman
LB: J Robson, A Sporle
CB: M Connolly, M Reynolds, R Edwards, L Neilson, R Graham

CM: C Butcher, J Fuchs, D Powers, I Harkes, P Pawlett, C Mochrie, F Hoti
Wingers: L Chalmers, L Bolton, K Fotheringham

FW: L Shankland, N Clark, M McNulty, L Appere

LarsErikKjell · 02/2/2021 10:17 am

My basic take on that squad is that we are missing two players in two positions.

1. A natural left winger. Chalmers, Bolton, Appere, Sporle, even Pawlett can all to a job there, but its none of their natural positions. Granted, we looked OK at the start of the season with Bolton on the right and Chalmers on the left, but LC's best games for United so far have been from the right of midfield and thats where I think we all want to see him.

2. A creative number 10. Stevie Mallan and Ali Crawford both made loan moves away from their clubs on deadline day. These are 2 players that could have improved the balance of our squad. We have youngsters like Mochrie, Glass, Hoti and Meekison that are those types of players, but none can be relied on at the moment to deliver in our first team. Clark is a good link man in the number 10 role but he is not creative. And in a team struggling to create chances, that is exactly what we need.

MockChop · 02/2/2021 11:40 pm

^the key word there is balance.

We have lacked it for years. Especially in the middle of the park

dufc2019 · 09/2/2021 10:28 am

LarsErikKjell wrote:
Our squad as the January window closes:

GK: B Seigrist, Deniz
RB: L Smith, K Freeman
LB: J Robson, A Sporle
CB: M Connolly, M Reynolds, R Edwards, L Neilson, R Graham

CM: C Butcher, J Fuchs, D Powers, I Harkes, P Pawlett, C Mochrie, F Hoti
Wingers: L Chalmers, L Bolton, K Fotheringham

FW: L Shankland, N Clark, M McNulty, L Appere

I'd change that slightly:

CM: Hoti
LM/RM: Fotheringham
RM: Chalmers
LM/RM/CAM/CM: Mochrie
LM/CAM/RM; Pawlett

Lilley01 · 09/2/2021 11:16 am

I think the narrative that is being implied that Ogren is some daft yank that doesn't understand 'soccer' or Scottish football is well wide of the mark. He's a successful business man. He is more than capable at looking at clubs turnovers, margins and profits and understanding the likelihood of success through that route. He will also run rings round the vast majority of punters on a message board about what an investment actually means.

It's a hands-on investment toy that might reap rewards and create a win-win for club and owner AND it's a bottomless pit subject to the same macro-economic misfortunes of any business. The length of this crisis could not have been forseen by anyone and has no doubt changed both our tactical approach to decisions and Ogren's long term plans and chances of success.

There's no black or white to this. No good or bad intentions. He's been dealt a brutal hand at a terrible time and we all might suffer for it.

If you had a pot of money and fancied investing in a Michigan baseball team for fun/possible return but it went Bristol's up, would you stick around and spend all of your resources for that clubs sake or would you look to mitigate losses and protect your other interests and families?