TheShed wrote:

SNP might still get my 1st vote, but it’ll depend who the candidate is. If I don’t vote for them it’ll be nobody, the Greens are mental and the rest are arseholes.
My 2nd vote will go to an Indy list party, prob ISP, to try and get rid of some of the Tory hanger on list MSP’s like Murdo Fraser. There is very little point giving SNP your second vote in most areas, they get nothing for it.

If there is an Indy list candidate to vote for ,they might get my vote. 

There wasn't last time though.
 

I believe people vote for Independence not the individuals.
This is just as well as their 'top' team are talentless charlatans.
John Swinney , Kate Forbes, Jean Freeman........ absolutely fu###ng hopeless.
I'm going to vote for anyone brave enough to come to my door canvassing.

Tek wrote:

Will they again get your vote at the next Scottish Elections in May 6th 2021?

I voted SNP at last few elections as i see them as 'the only show in town' regards achieving Scottish Independence away from Westminster.

But i must confess, i am seriously considering not giving them my vote next time.

I really don't like the shift in the politics of the party since Sturgeon became it's leader. Too much 'identity politics' at play and 'careerists' now in the higher echelons of the party, who seem to be pushing their own agendas above anything else, including independence. And who seem to wield power amongst the party and are also deeply immersed in the NEC.

For clarity, i will either vote Green, or not at all. I think.

 
Used to be an SNP member myself, and goes without saying I voted yes. Left a few years ago after some frightening conversations with other members.

Identity politics is really killing the SNP and ergo the indy movement. I know at least 20 friends, family, and colleagues who were all SNP voters who have been questioning their future vote. The shambles of the corona response (what everyone else is doing but slightly longer and with tiny changes) has been ridiculous, as was the decision to stand by the Original CMO that bailed oot to Fife and flaunted her own rules.

The only thing they have going is the alternatives are probably even worse:

Labour, pointless.
Tories, good ane.
Greens, are a bit of a joke.
SSP (or whatever they are called), good ane.
Libertarians, no one even knows what that means.

Not sure being the least shite party endears anyone to vote yes though, should it come to it.

Last edited by Morphman (27/9/2020 8:40 pm)

Additionally, don't know why I didn't mention it in my original post:

I'll vote for whoever promises to let me back in to Tannadice, and I mean anyone.

The proposed 'hate crime' and blasphemy bill by Humza Yousef is reason enough to rally very hard against the SNP, regardless of your feelings about independence.

The cringey, wet identity politics obsession was just about reason enough beforehand, right enough.

Last edited by Hen Broon (29/9/2020 6:20 pm)

Billy_Hainey wrote:

I know a lot of my family, friends and acquaintances of varying degree, that don't particularly like the politics of the SNP, and some haven't ever voted for them, but they are gonna be voting for them from now on, because they want Scotland to get its independence now, to get away from the shitstorm that is the government of Boris the Spider and his merry men.

That said, if Scotland were to gain its independence, there would have to be a General Election in Scotland to select a Government. Scottish National Party, Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Lib Dems.

 

Sadly it's not really independence though Bill.
Independence from London but giving it all away to Brussels where we'll have even less influence.  Make no sense to me

Goodie Conway 2 wrote:

Billy_Hainey wrote:

I know a lot of my family, friends and acquaintances of varying degree, that don't particularly like the politics of the SNP, and some haven't ever voted for them, but they are gonna be voting for them from now on, because they want Scotland to get its independence now, to get away from the shitstorm that is the government of Boris the Spider and his merry men.

That said, if Scotland were to gain its independence, there would have to be a General Election in Scotland to select a Government. Scottish National Party, Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Lib Dems.

Agreed, and I don't think the SNP make this clear enough. I reckon a lot more people would support Independence if they realised that they'd still have the chance to vote Tory/Labour/Lib Dem AFTER Independence.
I worry that folk think that democracy will go out of the window and it would be an SNP dictatorship. 

However, I don't think the SNP would disappear as they have had to diversify from a single issue party to Government and the other parties have a lot of work to do to win back votes.

 

 It's not independence the SNP are after it's to break away from the UK and hand over our 'freedom' to the EU. The question is do you want to be 8% of the UK and under the 'control' of England or do you want to be 1% of the EU and under the 'control' of Germany.
Independence is not on the table here.

PatReilly wrote:

Beharder wrote:

 
 It's not independence the SNP are after it's to break away from the UK and hand over our 'freedom' to the EU. The question is do you want to be 8% of the UK and under the 'control' of England or do you want to be 1% of the EU and under the 'control' of Germany.
Independence is not on the table here.

Is it set in stone that an Independent Scotland would be controlled by Germany or other nations of the EU? Don't think it is, and that reads like scaremongering to me, Beharder. 

I don't want to be 'under the control' of any country, and would be relatively happy if nuclear weapons, the royal family and House of Lords were all ditched. It's not always a single issue which influences voters.
 

 
It’s not just scaremongering, it’s absolute bollocks.

tobias smollett wrote:

 
Primacy of The European Union law means EU law takes precedence over sovereign law.  Put simplistically, EU laws supersede sovereign law.  Fair to say, that that takes control from Scotland and hands it to Germany and the other EU nations.  Beharder was entirely correct.

You're last sentence doesn't make sense to me.  You seem to be saying that you're unhappy with decisions being made by unelected bureaucrats (Royal Family, Lords) even though they have virtually zero decision making powers, yet you're fine with being ruled by the European Commission, which is the real power centre of the EU.  Note, Commissioners are unelected.

"You seem to be saying"?  Thus you're imagining what I've written rather than my question (exact quote) "Is it set in stone that an Independent Scotland would be controlled by Germany or other nations of the EU?".

And you write "Beharder was entirely correct." If he's "entirely correct" you'll be able to offer the source where it's an absolute fact that an Independent Scotland "would be controlled by Germany or other nations of the EU".

You are possibly (and I can't imagine what you actually are thinking) attributing the political intentions of some members of the SNP and applying them to everyone who has a viewpoint contrary to your own.

Last edited by PatReilly (02/10/2020 7:27 am)

FFS if this is the kind of shite squabbling that we'll have amongst the pro-Indys if we become independent god help us.
Not going to attempt to re-direct this, but getting to vote for the party I really like in an economically unviable Scotland isn't very attractive.
The SNP have had a decade to build our economy and evidence that we could flourish as an independent country but they simply can't stop themselves pointing at Westminster as their foremost concern rather than concentrate on convincing us that the future would be rosy if they did get their way.  
I'm not a Unionist, I'm a realist.  If there was a reasonable chance we'd be better off independent I'd vote for it.  We won't be until we start focussing on sorting our own shit out instead of blaming others.

Give me being ruled by Germany - a forward thinking, fantastic modern country over being ruled over by a country obsessed by WWII and thinking they are the superior race over every other country on earth any day of the week.

Fuck the HOL and the Royal Family.

PatReilly wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

FFS if this is the kind of shite squabbling that we'll have amongst the pro-Indys if we become independent god help us.

If you think Tobias and I are both pro-Independence, I'd say you are mistaken Finn.

I doubt very much if Tobias is in favour of Independence, while I'd be content if the UK had a vast change in political outlook. But this is almost impossible, thus I'm looking at Independence as a different route for change. 

Tobias has said he's a nationalist, I'm an internationalist. 

I agree with much of the rest of your statement, but, as a voter who tends not to normally support the SNP, I'll be fair to them and say their hands are economically tied by Westminster in many areas, so although they haven't built a flourishing economy in your eyes, to a degree it's justified that they are angry at Westminster.

There are success stories, however, but they are normally hidden by the MSM.

https://scottishfinancialreview.com/2020/09/25/edinburgh-4th-in-europe-in-new-financial-centres-index/?fbclid=IwAR0VpOEapw6Mx15KX-PtcnxvGaA0fNxzFejDcQmhJrAwQI7YIh-Qdzw3uY4
 

Change can be a good thing, but gambling normally isn't.  We do have some good news stories - granted - but we could (and should) have had many more.

Take your example, I don't think the SNP can remotely take plaudits for the success of the financial services sector in Scotland.  That comes from the historic success of BoS and RBS in the UK.  There is therefore a skill-base in Edinburgh that has continued to be utilised.  You also won't find many nationalists in the partnership at Baillie Gifford and there is a reason that Edinburgh on a whole is not SNP like Glasgow and Dundee.  What will happen in independence is that many of those jobs will move to London - there are already plenty of folk (pre-Covid) that work in London live in Edinburgh (Willies) so independence will undoubtedly hurt that sector (and the Willies, who earn a lot), will be paying their taxes south of the border. 

Oil is a busted flush and we can't (yet) export energy created by renewables (but in any case we are not yet self sufficient there).  The new world order is going to leave the UK in a lower ranked position and I would have preferred to have remained a strong nation in a strong EU, but going it alone is a gamble and one that will hurt our people pretty hard unless we are very very lucky.