343 is designed to be a fluid exciting formation and when technically good top teams play it well it can be breathtaking to watch.

Goodwin is emptying Tannadice with it.

Last edited by redford_must_score (13/12/2025 8:09 pm)

Jims Beard wrote:

Always_United wrote:

Specifically on the not closing the keeper part, that was clearly a management instruction. I presume that Goodwin knows the keeper is so good with the ball that it's better to just close off his passing options rather than close him down directly. It did mean some pretty farcical scenes where he just strolled out from defence under no pressure.

 
Agreed its 100% goodwins instructions, at times the players look terrified to leave whatever zone they should be in but there's a time and place for everything. Luca took it upon himself to close down the keeper at one point, if he can do it why can't moller when he's 10yds away. We need more fight and dig in team like we always get from luca, if we got that from dolcek last minute against rangers we possibly walk away with 3 points but instead it was ultimately another player worried about getting back in postion. Big changes needed from jim and the players.

 
Moller’s an absolute waste of a jersey. Much, much, much worse than Jort.

He’ll go down in the Emil Lyng category of signings.

Very poor game of football.

We were much better defensively and goal keeping wise, yes. So, that is a positive.

But by God that was a brutal watch and we were powderpuff in the final third.

Sapsford and Watters awful, as was Moller (a complete and utter dud who is robbing Owen Stirton of appearances, though that's on Goodwin). Only Amar Fatah consistently showing anything in an attacking sense.

I'm not convinced about Luca Stephenson in midfield btw. Goodwin said that's his best position, i just don't see it. I much prefer him at RB/RWB. He's scored most of his goals and made his best attacks when playing there.

Disappointing that once again the subs offered nothing.

Really disappointed that we didn't see enough desire and will to really throw the kitchen sink at it in the last ten minutes to try and win our first game in 8 weeks. Like many others have commented above, it looked like we were happy with a draw, a point illustrated by Dave Richards time wasting in the last minute of injury time rather than try to punt the ball quickly forward to get one last attack.

Suspect strongly we will be a brutal watch the next few weeks.
 

Billy_Hainey wrote:

Huvna seen the stats, but they musta had twice the possession we had.

.

They did.

Utd 31% Well 69%

Not that i normally give a great lot of focus to this (the most important thing is always the scoreline), but that is a rather eye-opening stat for us at home against a Non-Old Firm side. Not that they were great btw.

I suppose given that possession we must commend our backline and Keeper for restricting them to so few good chances.
 

JerryDungle wrote:

 
They knocked the ball about well, but they didn’t overly trouble our defence I didn’t think. Falkirk impressed me a lot more with how aggressively they pressed us a few weeks back.

The problem I have is that Goodwin isn’t brave enough to implement a style of play, everything’s reactive and based around what the opposition are gonna do and how they play. Why not just pick a style of play that he thinks will work and stick with it.

The only clear pattern we’ve had under Goodwin is playing for set pieces and throw ins, which is fine, but we’re absolutely hopeless at even that now, because we don’t have anyone aggressive enough in the air.

Make no mistake, the only reason we kept a clean sheet today and looked relatively stable at the back is because Motherwell played into our hands by trying to pass their way through us in the middle. If they played down the wings and forced us to defend cross balls, they would’ve won. Our defenders panic when they have to deal with crosses into the box.

Yip.

That's why i said we must commend the defence, backline and even Goodwin (to a degree) for the clean sheet. He played a style that nullified Motherwell's preferred style of play. They didn't mix it up really. They tried too but their subs weren't much cop.

Spot-on about Goodwin playing to the opposition, Today he clearly played an XI to try and contain Motherwell and keep a clean sheet. And tbf it worked. But that also means he doesn't believe we have an XI to take the game to Motherwell at home and try and attack them at will, with confidence we'll win.

He is clearly going to go back to the tactics of last season, at the detriment of us an attacking outlet.

A brutal December awaits.
 

Stillliving wrote:

Before the game I definitely would have accepted a point. UTD are eighth and on a very poor run and Well are 3rd on a very good run including 4 clean sheets in a row, plus we got pummelled at their place 6 weeks a go.
For me JGs tactics we're not good to watch but were exactly was required yesterday. Ours is a defence that has looked all over the place for weeks , we didn't yesterday.

I'm probably in the minority here but I was fully behind letting their keeper have the ball without closing him down. The reason the keeper was standing with the ball was because he didn't see a pass ahead of him. If a UTD player ran towards the keeper we would be giving him the space to pass in to.




I also agreed with Richards taking his time at the end. It would have been far more likely we would lose a late goal, rather than score one.

If we had lost a late goal this forum and others would be full of people calling for the sacking of JG.

Thanks stillliving, you've cracked it
Boys around me were apoplectic for us standing off the goalie
I don't think they get the picture
And Dave at the end too, I agree

btw no mentions anywhere of Sibbald's 45 yarder, that would have gone down well. How wide was it?
 

Is the picture settling for a draw at home to motherwell? Btw not having a go at you or anyone else as i do agree to a certain extent but if this is goodwins game plan why did he not just keep gallacher etc and use the same tactics as last year. We would probably have more points on the board and be higher up the table. If we aren't aiming to win these games regardless of how good Bayern Motherwell are this season then whats the point, seriously? Again not having a go at anyone looking at the bigger picture but that was honking to witness yesterday, we've played some great attacking football this season against 'bigger' teams so why not yesterday. The cry was that we struggle to play against teams who sit in, motherwell have been praised for their attacking football this season so the fact we didn't have any sort of real go at them for 90mins has left me p1ssed right off.

Stillliving wrote:

In the summer when JG was doing his recruitment and working on the shape of his team he wouldn't be thinking that come December he would be playing a containing game against Motherwell at Tannadice.

However things have not gone to plan. His August plan would be a midfield of Pappoe & Camara. His 3Chs are all 5/10 players for me. Watters & Graham out for 3 months. The GK situation has been a disaster
2nd season players looking to kick on Sevelj & Trapanovski have both been piss poor for the majority of games.

Jg has to deal with the situation we are in not the situation we would like to be in. There are many ' modern' philosophy managers who never change the style which usually ends in the sack- Russel Martin and maybe Celtics Nancy bhoy.

 
Goalkeeper situation needs sorting in January, no excuses. Get a proven keeper in whatever the cost because the cost of not doing so is far far greater, we know this from bitter experience. Sam Harding must have shagged Goodwin's missus then eaten his fucking dinner after to not be getting a look in.

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Tek wrote:

Very poor game of football.

We were much better defensively and goal keeping wise, yes. So, that is a positive.

But by God that was a brutal watch and we were powderpuff in the final third.

Sapsford and Watters awful, as was Moller (a complete and utter dud who is robbing Owen Stirton of appearances, though that's on Goodwin). Only Amar Fatah consistently showing anything in an attacking sense.

I'm not convinced about Luca Stephenson in midfield btw. Goodwin said that's his best position, i just don't see it. I much prefer him at RB/RWB. He's scored most of his goals and made his best attacks when playing there.

Disappointing that once again the subs offered nothing.

Really disappointed that we didn't see enough desire and will to really throw the kitchen sink at it in the last ten minutes to try and win our first game in 8 weeks. Like many others have commented above, it looked like we were happy with a draw, a point illustrated by Dave Richards time wasting in the last minute of injury time rather than try to punt the ball quickly forward to get one last attack.

Suspect strongly we will be a brutal watch the next few weeks.
 

 
All of this tells me that JG is not the man to take us forward, he's incapable of putting a coherent unit onto the park. One that can transition from defence to attack without being torn wide open on the break. Parking the bus at home to Motherwell is not why so many fans bought season tickets this year. Our team looks full of fear whether it's with or without the ball, passes going up in the air instead of into feet,heading the ball away when there's time to take it down and pick a pass. The only time they seem able to break the shackles is against teams that are expected to beat us anyway and there's hardly any pressure to get the result. Thank fuck for the dees and livi being shite too!

 
Great post. Especially the part about passes/punts up in the air and heading forwards when there's obviously time to chest the ball down and pick a pass.
After a prolonged period at the club over which to judge him my opinion of Goodwin is that he's not a good forward coach. Perhaps even clueless. Our football is so lacking in cohesion and style. He can't seem to even coach players in the risk/reward of decision making in short medium and long passes because we consistently make the wrong passes in all 3 distances. He is however despite that a good club manager going through a bad patch which he needs to resolve soon.

He needs a win to ease the pressure. Where's it coming from.

Stillliving wrote:

In the summer when JG was doing his recruitment and working on the shape of his team he wouldn't be thinking that come December he would be playing a containing game against Motherwell at Tannadice.

However things have not gone to plan. His August plan would be a midfield of Pappoe & Camara. His 3Chs are all 5/10 players for me. Watters & Graham out for 3 months. The GK situation has been a disaster
2nd season players looking to kick on Sevelj & Trapanovski have both been piss poor for the majority of games.

Jg has to deal with the situation we are in not the situation we would like to be in. There are many ' modern' philosophy managers who never change the style which usually ends in the sack- Russel Martin and maybe Celtics Nancy bhoy.

 
Fair enough Stillliving thats a good post, I still think we need to be doing more to win yesterday though, We badly needed 3 points yesterday with the tough run of fixtures coming up. 10/15mins to go, drawing with motherwell at home, playing with wind, shooting into the home end and we're happy to sit off and let them have possesion? I'm still in the Goodwin IN camp, as i have been since the raith game(2-1 at home about march time i think) but that yesterday, considering everything i've mentioned in this post wasn't acceptable to me.

United Arab Emarite wrote:

Stillliving wrote:

Before the game I definitely would have accepted a point. UTD are eighth and on a very poor run and Well are 3rd on a very good run including 4 clean sheets in a row, plus we got pummelled at their place 6 weeks a go.
For me JGs tactics we're not good to watch but were exactly was required yesterday. Ours is a defence that has looked all over the place for weeks , we didn't yesterday.

I'm probably in the minority here but I was fully behind letting their keeper have the ball without closing him down. The reason the keeper was standing with the ball was because he didn't see a pass ahead of him. If a UTD player ran towards the keeper we would be giving him the space to pass in to.




I also agreed with Richards taking his time at the end. It would have been far more likely we would lose a late goal, rather than score one.

If we had lost a late goal this forum and others would be full of people calling for the sacking of JG.

Thanks stillliving, you've cracked it
Boys around me were apoplectic for us standing off the goalie
I don't think they get the picture
And Dave at the end too, I agree

btw no mentions anywhere of Sibbald's 45 yarder, that would have gone down well. How wide was it?
 

 
I’ve no issue with us standing off the keeper, it was clearly a tactic to limit his passing options, it’s just a shame Jim didn’t have any sort of tactic to try and a win the game. At home…Against Motherwell…

Why would anyone mention Sibbald’s 45 yarder? You can’t seriously think setting up to hit shots from the halfway line is any sort of credible tactic to win games?