Morphman wrote:

Arab99 wrote:

JerryDungle wrote:

Need to stick with the keeper, there’s a lot he does right, he’s a long way from being Birighitti level. He just needs to be taught when to come and when to stay on his line. That’s something he can be drilled on in training until he learns, but he is a fantastic shot stopper, much better with the ball than Walton and him playing as a sweeper keeper allows us to play higher up and thus a better brand of football, just needs to learn when to stay and when to go.

The team as a whole though is the best we’ve had since the 2013/14 season with Gauld, Robertson, Ciftci etc. That will tell over the piece.

not a dig at you, if anyone expects Kuch to change his style of play they will be sorely disappointed. Expect superman punches to continue.
 

 

I disagree a bit, it certainly can be coached but takes a certain mentality, and level of ability to change traits as a keeper.

A pretty good comparison to Kuch that stands out for me is De Gea during his first season at Man Utd. Punching everything, teams sticking it on top of him every cross and corner, calls to drop him and get rid of him. Was coached in to being more confident claiming crosses on top of his established skills of being a shot stopper and went on to became a top GK

Not claiming for a second Kucherenko is on that level, but if he was the finished article in every way he wouldn't be playing for a Dundee United.

If we want to develop him as a keeper, we can't be dropping him after 1 questionable game where he still made some brilliant saves.

 
Agreed

Morphman wrote:

 
If we want to develop him as a keeper, we can't be dropping him after 1 questionable game where he still made some brilliant saves.

Agree with this, I'm not in the drop him camp for one minute. We'll see where we are at the end of the season, mind he's here next season too.
 

Finn Seemann wrote:

Really enjoyed the game on Saturday, although the dropped two points were self-inflicted.

For me the keeper is really only at fault for the first and third and he does need more work on crosses and the defence generally on set-piece play.  The first one was a bit unlucky but is going to happen where you go for a one-handed punch. An absolute gift for Hibs.  The third is a mixture of pressure and poor decision making across the defence.  It does hit Vicko's arm heading goalwards with a keeper who has already over committed himself so I am OK with the giving of the pen, but the straight red is a joke.  It's not even a yellow.  I am assuming that we appeal that one?

The second goal is a nightmare.  You just know that with some teams that 'tackle' will always be given as a foul.  It is the consistency that is the issue though as with some teams you know it can go either way.  Keeper not at fault for me though.  Vicko asks for it and has time to manage the ball but doesn't.

In terms of the defence, Iovu needs to stop giving away so many fouls around the box.  He otherwise played OK though as did KK and Bert.  Managed the pace of Boyle and the threat of Bowie quite well.

Ferry back to his best and Stephenson different class completely.

Thought Vicko had one of his poorer games but still pass marks for me.  Camara didn't look like he'd had a niggle mid week.  A few of my Hibee mates asking where we got him.  Immense.

Dolcek, Sapsford and Fatah looked the real deal for me.  Fatah had one of his best games so far - run and cross for the third simple, but we just didn't see too much of that from Middleton - hope the boy kicks on from here.  Dolcek quieter, but I think his quickly gained reputation has focussed some attention on him.  Very clever running and lay off for the second.  Sapsford is no CF, but boy does he have guts.  He gave Bushiri a torrid time and once again left it all out there.

Didn't notice Naamo too much when he came on, but certainly nothing negative.  Eskenen didn't get much of a chance so dificult to comment.  I like Moller though.  Couple of nice first touch lay offs which when repeated will pay dividends this season.  Like to see if he has an aerial threat (should) but no sign/chance thus far.  Sibbs did what he does but the game was mental by that stage.

I think Hibs will be top 4 and looks like they have a fair bit more strength in depth than us.  If we can play like that every week (and sort out the defensive errors) we could be top 4 too.

 
Did you not think Sevelj was fouled for their second goal? I've watched it over and over and it definitely looks that way to me. That foul gets given all day long against us,  I'd put my fucking wage on it. That said I just dont think the keeper needs to play that pass right at that time, we are 2 goals in front and should have been looking to calm the game down rather than inviting pressure onto the defence. Given his earlier mistake I'd have hoped he'd use a bit more common sense in that situation.

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Really enjoyed the game on Saturday, although the dropped two points were self-inflicted.

For me the keeper is really only at fault for the first and third and he does need more work on crosses and the defence generally on set-piece play.  The first one was a bit unlucky but is going to happen where you go for a one-handed punch. An absolute gift for Hibs.  The third is a mixture of pressure and poor decision making across the defence.  It does hit Vicko's arm heading goalwards with a keeper who has already over committed himself so I am OK with the giving of the pen, but the straight red is a joke.  It's not even a yellow.  I am assuming that we appeal that one?

The second goal is a nightmare.  You just know that with some teams that 'tackle' will always be given as a foul.  It is the consistency that is the issue though as with some teams you know it can go either way.  Keeper not at fault for me though.  Vicko asks for it and has time to manage the ball but doesn't.

In terms of the defence, Iovu needs to stop giving away so many fouls around the box.  He otherwise played OK though as did KK and Bert.  Managed the pace of Boyle and the threat of Bowie quite well.

Ferry back to his best and Stephenson different class completely.

Thought Vicko had one of his poorer games but still pass marks for me.  Camara didn't look like he'd had a niggle mid week.  A few of my Hibee mates asking where we got him.  Immense.

Dolcek, Sapsford and Fatah looked the real deal for me.  Fatah had one of his best games so far - run and cross for the third simple, but we just didn't see too much of that from Middleton - hope the boy kicks on from here.  Dolcek quieter, but I think his quickly gained reputation has focussed some attention on him.  Very clever running and lay off for the second.  Sapsford is no CF, but boy does he have guts.  He gave Bushiri a torrid time and once again left it all out there.

Didn't notice Naamo too much when he came on, but certainly nothing negative.  Eskenen didn't get much of a chance so dificult to comment.  I like Moller though.  Couple of nice first touch lay offs which when repeated will pay dividends this season.  Like to see if he has an aerial threat (should) but no sign/chance thus far.  Sibbs did what he does but the game was mental by that stage.

I think Hibs will be top 4 and looks like they have a fair bit more strength in depth than us.  If we can play like that every week (and sort out the defensive errors) we could be top 4 too.

 
Did you not think Sevelj was fouled for their second goal? I've watched it over and over and it definitely looks that way to me. That foul gets given all day long against us, I'd put my fucking wage on it. That said I just dont think the keeper needs to play that pass right at that time, we are 2 goals in front and should have been looking to calm the game down rather than inviting pressure onto the defence. Given his earlier mistake I'd have hoped he'd use a bit more common sense in that situation.

I think it was a foul, but it was a soft one.  Boot on the other foot I'd be saying it was a fair goal if it had been for us.  I also think there are certain teams and maybe certain players who get that foul every time.  I'm agreeing on the inconsistency point.  I also agree that there was no need for Kuch to make the pass, but as Goodwin has said, that's what he wants them to do so he has accepted the blame.  Truth be told, if Vicko knocks it to his left first time as he should have done after asking for it then no probs.  For me it's Vicko's fault mostly either for failing to make the pass, or failing to ensure that the foul is given (he panics rather than making enough of the foul).  I'll take it though as the football is way more enjoyable with this approach and we are playing some excellent stuff.  The progress from Strassen is remrkable.

 
I'll certainly agree with the last part, we have some very exciting players on our hands and kudos to the recruitment team once again. If we can just get things tightened up a bit at the back,can't wait for big Ross Graham to be back tbh, we have a team thats only going to put more bums on seats than ever.

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

I think it was a foul, but it was a soft one.  Boot on the other foot I'd be saying it was a fair goal if it had been for us.  I also think there are certain teams and maybe certain players who get that foul every time.  I'm agreeing on the inconsistency point.  I also agree that there was no need for Kuch to make the pass, but as Goodwin has said, that's what he wants them to do so he has accepted the blame.  Truth be told, if Vicko knocks it to his left first time as he should have done after asking for it then no probs.  For me it's Vicko's fault mostly either for failing to make the pass, or failing to ensure that the foul is given (he panics rather than making enough of the foul).  I'll take it though as the football is way more enjoyable with this approach and we are playing some excellent stuff.  The progress from Strassen is remrkable.

 
I'll certainly agree with the last part, we have some very exciting players on our hands and kudos to the recruitment team once again. If we can just get things tightened up a bit at the back,can't wait for big Ross Graham to be back tbh, we have a team thats only going to put more bums on seats than ever.

If Jim ever gets Strain, Graham, Pappoe, Trapa and Watters fit at the same time, gets better tunes out of Kuch, Iovu, Keresztes, Fatah, Cleall-Harding and Stirton who all have huge potential as well as getting Eskesen, Nammo and Moller up to speed we could be some team.  There are then a bunch of youngsters coming up in the next couple of years who could start to compliment that.  

 
Changed days indeed, over the last decade we've had some amount of shite players so it's huge credit to Jim and the recruitment guy that we are where we are currently. Only fair to credit Ogren too I guess as it's his money they are spending after all. Fingers crossed for some exciting times ahead!

Btw FTD!

David_Blunkett wrote:

Club set to a appeal the Vicko red, rightly so, it'll be downgraded to a yellow at best, but it's the difference between a 1 or 2 game ban possibly.

Re the handball rule, a forward can't score regardless if even an unintentional handball occurs, (McGregor for Celtic earlier in the season) but the ref on Saturday could've easily decided that Vicko didn't intend to handle it, gain an advantage or even try to make himself bigger and say play on.

Look at Celtic's pen yesterday, it's a shot, blocked by a Killie defender, but it ricochets into his own player, striking his hand, it was moving away from goal at that point, he had no way of getting out of the way of the ball.

You'll see the same situations next week as the two above and no pen is given, the consistency is all over the place, maybe to make it easy any handball in the box is a pen? It would take away the guesswork and shitey interpretation.

Or maybe it won't and they'll just make it up like the Dalby goal at Tannadice.
 

 
It should be downgraded to a fucking apology tbh. No way was it worthy of any kind of card let alone a penalty.  Watch the penalty at the end of the Burnley v Liverpool game yesterday,the lad sticks his elbow out to divert the ball, clear penalty but no kind of card issued. I'll say it again,our officials are at best totally incompetent and at worst absolute cheating bastards!

Stillliving wrote:

I was certainly not surprised to see Sevelj mis control the pass from the keeper that led to the 2nd school. He still looks to me like a defender playing in midfield. He is good at closing down  and tackling but lacks composure on the ball and passing range.
I would say Sibbald is quite similar but he is more aware of his limitations and probably wouldn't have made himself available for the pass in the first place.
Overall it was a very enjoyable game that should keep the JG is a negative manager posts of social media, at least until the next game.

 
Did you not see the hibs player going right through the back of Sevelj? I think folk are forgetting how big a player he's been for us

Always_United wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

David_Blunkett wrote:

Club set to a appeal the Vicko red, rightly so, it'll be downgraded to a yellow at best, but it's the difference between a 1 or 2 game ban possibly.

Re the handball rule, a forward can't score regardless if even an unintentional handball occurs, (McGregor for Celtic earlier in the season) but the ref on Saturday could've easily decided that Vicko didn't intend to handle it, gain an advantage or even try to make himself bigger and say play on.

Look at Celtic's pen yesterday, it's a shot, blocked by a Killie defender, but it ricochets into his own player, striking his hand, it was moving away from goal at that point, he had no way of getting out of the way of the ball.

You'll see the same situations next week as the two above and no pen is given, the consistency is all over the place, maybe to make it easy any handball in the box is a pen? It would take away the guesswork and shitey interpretation.

Or maybe it won't and they'll just make it up like the Dalby goal at Tannadice.
 

 
It should be downgraded to a fucking apology tbh. No way was it worthy of any kind of card let alone a penalty.  Watch the penalty at the end of the Burnley v Liverpool game yesterday,the lad sticks his elbow out to divert the ball, clear penalty but no kind of card issued. I'll say it again,our officials are at best totally incompetent and at worst absolute cheating bastards!

 
The red card in the United game was because the referee thought the ball was going in the net until it came off his arm, which absolutely wasn't the case in the Liverpool game where it was a fairly innocuous cross that was blocked. Whether he meant it (he clearly didn't) or not is immaterial, the view was that he made his body unnaturally bigger by having his arm out.

I'm not sure United have much grounds for appeal, I would expect it to be upheld. We'll see though, obviously I'm happy to be wrong.

It is harsh on Vicko as he was entirely oblivious to it, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the ball has just hit him. If the keeper hasn't come flying out to no man's land, and was on his line, it would have been a yellow card as he'd have been reasonably expected to save it.

 You've said it yourself,it was totally unintentional so why is he getting carded at all?
The Burnley player intentionally stuck his elbow out, but he got no card at all is my point. There's absolutely no consistency with our officials, well other than them being consistently shite that is. You will never see Sevco concede a penalty at Ibrox for that,absolutely never, let alone a fucking red card. Our game is a joke and it's no wonder it gets ridiculed

Last edited by Arabdownsouth (15/9/2025 7:04 pm)

Always_United wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

David_Blunkett wrote:

Club set to a appeal the Vicko red, rightly so, it'll be downgraded to a yellow at best, but it's the difference between a 1 or 2 game ban possibly.

Re the handball rule, a forward can't score regardless if even an unintentional handball occurs, (McGregor for Celtic earlier in the season) but the ref on Saturday could've easily decided that Vicko didn't intend to handle it, gain an advantage or even try to make himself bigger and say play on.

Look at Celtic's pen yesterday, it's a shot, blocked by a Killie defender, but it ricochets into his own player, striking his hand, it was moving away from goal at that point, he had no way of getting out of the way of the ball.

You'll see the same situations next week as the two above and no pen is given, the consistency is all over the place, maybe to make it easy any handball in the box is a pen? It would take away the guesswork and shitey interpretation.

Or maybe it won't and they'll just make it up like the Dalby goal at Tannadice.
 

 
It should be downgraded to a fucking apology tbh. No way was it worthy of any kind of card let alone a penalty. Watch the penalty at the end of the Burnley v Liverpool game yesterday,the lad sticks his elbow out to divert the ball, clear penalty but no kind of card issued. I'll say it again,our officials are at best totally incompetent and at worst absolute cheating bastards!

 
The red card in the United game was because the referee thought the ball was going in the net until it came off his arm, which absolutely wasn't the case in the Liverpool game where it was a fairly innocuous cross that was blocked. Whether he meant it (he clearly didn't) or not is immaterial, the view was that he made his body unnaturally bigger by having his arm out.

I'm not sure United have much grounds for appeal, I would expect it to be upheld. We'll see though, obviously I'm happy to be wrong.

It is harsh on Vicko as he was entirely oblivious to it, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the ball has just hit him. If the keeper hasn't come flying out to no man's land, and was on his line, it would have been a yellow card as he'd have been reasonably expected to save it.

I don't think the Burnley player deliberately stuck his arm out, he did the shitebag thing by turning his back instead of facing up the cross, the way his body moves, the arm would always be kinda out, rather than an intended move. He behaved like a primary school kid would, face the ball up, you don't give away a pen.

Re Vicko, play went on for quite a bit, the VAR ref has seen something no-one else saw or really even claimed for, for them to then give the pen, watch that and decide he deliberately blocked the ball is ludicrous.

At the other end, it hits an opponents arm in the box, i'm screaming for that, no matter what we think, the arm is raised, it strikes it, it's shite but that's the rule they've decided on.

Downgrading it is all we can hope for, they won't say it shouldn't have been a pen, because they'll quote chapter and verse about making your silhouette bigger, natural position, goalscoring opportunity yadda yadda.

I'd be surprised if they even consider it, because they'll circle the wagons.

And did anyone see the goal the Huns had chopped off on Saturday? Hearts keeper makes a right arse of a cross, barely touched, ref awards the foul. compare it to Walton at Killie last season and it really is ridiculous the way games are being reffed.


 

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
It should be downgraded to a fucking apology tbh. No way was it worthy of any kind of card let alone a penalty. !

It was a penalty. The balls potentially going in the net if it doesn't hit Vicko's arm. He was blocking a clear goal scoring opportunity, unintentionally or not.

It wasn't a red card though. If it was a blatant, intentional use of the arm/hand then it's a red, but his use was clearly unintentional.
 

kdyteejay wrote:

Morphman wrote:

Arab99 wrote:

not a dig at you, if anyone expects Kuch to change his style of play they will be sorely disappointed. Expect superman punches to continue.
 

 

I disagree a bit, it certainly can be coached but takes a certain mentality, and level of ability to change traits as a keeper.

A pretty good comparison to Kuch that stands out for me is De Gea during his first season at Man Utd. Punching everything, teams sticking it on top of him every cross and corner, calls to drop him and get rid of him. Was coached in to being more confident claiming crosses on top of his established skills of being a shot stopper and went on to became a top GK

Not claiming for a second Kucherenko is on that level, but if he was the finished article in every way he wouldn't be playing for a Dundee United.

If we want to develop him as a keeper, we can't be dropping him after 1 questionable game where he still made some brilliant saves.

There’s no chance he’s getting dropped.

 
Unlike the fucking ball 🤣

Kuchernko actually pushes Vicko which causes him to lift his arm. Now way could he deliberately react like they are saying in real time. The whole thing is a joke.

But it won't be overturned because of... reasons.

Last edited by lifesanocean (15/9/2025 10:15 pm)

David_Blunkett wrote:

Always_United wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
It should be downgraded to a fucking apology tbh. No way was it worthy of any kind of card let alone a penalty. Watch the penalty at the end of the Burnley v Liverpool game yesterday,the lad sticks his elbow out to divert the ball, clear penalty but no kind of card issued. I'll say it again,our officials are at best totally incompetent and at worst absolute cheating bastards!

 
The red card in the United game was because the referee thought the ball was going in the net until it came off his arm, which absolutely wasn't the case in the Liverpool game where it was a fairly innocuous cross that was blocked. Whether he meant it (he clearly didn't) or not is immaterial, the view was that he made his body unnaturally bigger by having his arm out.

I'm not sure United have much grounds for appeal, I would expect it to be upheld. We'll see though, obviously I'm happy to be wrong.

It is harsh on Vicko as he was entirely oblivious to it, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the ball has just hit him. If the keeper hasn't come flying out to no man's land, and was on his line, it would have been a yellow card as he'd have been reasonably expected to save it.

I don't think the Burnley player deliberately stuck his arm out, he did the shitebag thing by turning his back instead of facing up the cross, the way his body moves, the arm would always be kinda out, rather than an intended move. He behaved like a primary school kid would, face the ball up, you don't give away a pen.

Re Vicko, play went on for quite a bit, the VAR ref has seen something no-one else saw or really even claimed for, for them to then give the pen, watch that and decide he deliberately blocked the ball is ludicrous.

At the other end, it hits an opponents arm in the box, i'm screaming for that, no matter what we think, the arm is raised, it strikes it, it's shite but that's the rule they've decided on.

Downgrading it is all we can hope for, they won't say it shouldn't have been a pen, because they'll quote chapter and verse about making your silhouette bigger, natural position, goalscoring opportunity yadda yadda.

I'd be surprised if they even consider it, because they'll circle the wagons.

And did anyone see the goal the Huns had chopped off on Saturday? Hearts keeper makes a right arse of a cross, barely touched, ref awards the foul. compare it to Walton at Killie last season and it really is ridiculous the way games are being reffed.


 

I was surprised at the Rangers goal not being allowed.  Presumably the masons want rid of Martin too.