I was part of those venting their anger at the end.  My message to the players was that that wasn't good enough for Dundee United.  That message more forcefully to Goodwin and, after his lacklustre performance and lack of effort, a more robust GTF to Tony Watt.  I also said, 'c'mon Davie Bowman you tell them - you know this isn't good enough for this club'.  I can only assume that someone else said more.  The big ginger steward was certainly trying to shepherd away an older fan who had clearly lost the rag.

I felt it was maybe a bit harsh on the younger boys, but the older ones (including our new captain) will be under no illusion that performances like that are unacceptable.

For those not at the game, we were by some distance the better side in terms of possession and stroking the ball about, but in terms of penetration of the opposition box, apart from the Miller Thomson's effort which he should have scored (but at least made the opportunity) we could have played all week and not scored.

I've heard some boys say that the team was a big drop in quality and I think that is partially true, but I do wonder what they are coaching them.  There genuinely seemed to be no plan to get the ball forward beyond hoping they'd receive a written invitation into the box.  Maybe we have to expect a few teething issues given the personnel changes, but surely those boys have some personal pride in not being beaten by a bunch of part timers - who were resolute at the back but otherwise were bang average for a lower league team.  Middleton did make a good few runs into decent spaces, but nobody spotted him once!

I'd absolve those who came on in the second half (bar maybe Chalmers who was wasteful as previously) and Cudjoe who has something and tries hard (but unfortunately is playing in a team that will not allow his skills to flourish).  The rest, bar the keeper, were somewhere between bombscare and poor, apart from the Joker upfront.  Maybe Goodwin is a genius and this is the first step to returning Watt to the predator he could have been (if he had bothered his arse) but I somehow doubt it.  All will be forgiven if Jim can move this fraud on and bring in a couple of boys who are willing to put some effort in to our forward line.

 

David_Blunkett wrote:

A fairly reasonable summing up of the match, watched on their stream on the shakiest camera ever, at the worst angle.

Watt's pen, Watt's one on one, McLeod and Thomson's misses on another day go in, they didn't though and we are where we are.

Even if we did win by putting away a couple of those chances, it still wouldn't have been good enough.

The lack of penetration was a real worry, the bigger worry is that Freeman looks a shadow of the player we've seen at times and McMann looks like he'd never seen a ball before.

I'm not sure either are good enough for where we need to be.

Saturday was a competitive game, but as we've seen over the years bigger clubs have treated this as a kind of pre-season, still doesn't excuse the performance and result, but if these games can be tweaked to make sure that we're 100% ready to go v Arbroath, i'll accept that reluctantly.

Fully expecting that i'll get a few replies of 'The League Cup is one of the 2 real competitions we can realistically win' and whilst in theory that's true, but we've won it twice in our history. We're not gonna beat a mid table top tier team and given we're probably Scottish Football's biggest set of cup final shitebags, other than the embarrassment of who we lost to, I'm not going to lose sleep over a defeat in a cup that has a stupid set up and starts way too early.
 

I'd agree with your views in either cup.  We are so far off any team in the top half of the big league that we do need to concentrate on the league.  Of course, we are also totally strapped of cash due to mismanagement so a cup run (albeit with no chance of winning it) is something we need to hope for.  We are in that bad a mess!  We need the old firm to come to Tannadice and give us a doing for the money!

I'd forgotten about Watt's one on one - OK he may not have been fully fit, but you'd expect a premiership striker to score there (or take a decent penalty).  

I'd got my head around relegation (which is firmly blamed on Ogren, Asghar and 3 or 4 of last year's senior players) and I was even thinking of matching my young lad's enthusiasm for going round some grounds that he's not been to before, but Saturday has really driven such a stupid idea out of me.  The least you are expecting is a bit of personal or club pride from the players.  Only Cudjoe and Bowman showed they care...

Finn Seemann wrote:

Just watched the goal again.  The young Cardiff boy definitely to blame for letting the ball bounce in the first instance so the major culprit.  (Hope he learns not to do that again as otherwise I thought he dealt with the game not too badly).

However, there were other failures:
 - two midfielders ball watching and fail to keep up with the Spartans player who ends up getting the crucial touch assist.
- Freeman initially does OK to show the player the outside only and then doesn't do enough to shepherd him out/stop the cross.
- the keeper and another defender go front post which is possibly OK although they are too close and the cut back takes them out of the game.
- the player at left-back (presumably McMann) loses the boy who gets the tap in because he gets drawn to the ball when arguably he doesn't need to.

For me main culprit is Denham, but if the two midfielders are not ball watching they deal with the boy who gets the assist.  A horrible goal to lose.

Also, I have seen some comment on other forums that United fans were out of order on the 'Bowman video'.  I have to say I was a little taken a back at the ferocity of some, but given last season and what was a truly woeful performance by the vast majority on the park, the club really can't be surprised.  I'm assuming someone said something personal to Bowman as his reaction seemed somewhat OTT.

For me it was as much a reaction to last season and the clearly ineffective close season (in terms of squad rebuilding) than against any individuals (bar Goodwin and Watt).

 
I agree with what you have said about Denham but one small thing in his defence is the ball does take a weird bounce on the shitey plastic pitch. He’s a professional footballer and should do better but the surface didn’t help.

KdyArab wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Just watched the goal again.  The young Cardiff boy definitely to blame for letting the ball bounce in the first instance so the major culprit.  (Hope he learns not to do that again as otherwise I thought he dealt with the game not too badly).

However, there were other failures:
 - two midfielders ball watching and fail to keep up with the Spartans player who ends up getting the crucial touch assist.
- Freeman initially does OK to show the player the outside only and then doesn't do enough to shepherd him out/stop the cross.
- the keeper and another defender go front post which is possibly OK although they are too close and the cut back takes them out of the game.
- the player at left-back (presumably McMann) loses the boy who gets the tap in because he gets drawn to the ball when arguably he doesn't need to.

For me main culprit is Denham, but if the two midfielders are not ball watching they deal with the boy who gets the assist.  A horrible goal to lose.

Also, I have seen some comment on other forums that United fans were out of order on the 'Bowman video'.  I have to say I was a little taken a back at the ferocity of some, but given last season and what was a truly woeful performance by the vast majority on the park, the club really can't be surprised.  I'm assuming someone said something personal to Bowman as his reaction seemed somewhat OTT.

For me it was as much a reaction to last season and the clearly ineffective close season (in terms of squad rebuilding) than against any individuals (bar Goodwin and Watt).

 
I agree with what you have said about Denham but one small thing in his defence is the ball does take a weird bounce on the shitey plastic pitch. He’s a professional footballer and should do better but the surface didn’t help.

I'd agree with that, but also the forward kinda wipes him out, he jumps into him, I thought it was foul at the time and a few of our players claimed for it.
 

lifesanocean wrote:

Seemingly the boy shouted "Stop fucking up my club." to Bowman.
 

I understand why everyone is frustrated and angry and want to lash out.

But Dave Bowman is a club legend. The only people who would have the right to shout that at Bo would be Heggy, Narey or Wee Jum. And they wouldn't because they know his level of commitment.

Bowman is probably the only direct link between this team and the teams from the best years of our history. The only one involved with the current group who can relate to what us older fans experienced. If I was him, I'd have reacted like that too.

Imagine if Dave Narey was helping with coaching and some boy from the crowd shouts to him "Stop fucking up our club!"  I'd fully expect the boys standing bedside him to rap his pus!

Does the guy who shouted " Stop fucking up my club " no realize that Bo having sweated blood for the club doesnae need advice fae the likes of him.         F___ing twat.

Edit:  Oh an Denhom, centre back 101, never let the ball bounce.

Last edited by Shakey Isles Arab (18/7/2023 2:12 am)

I didn't see anyone having a go specifically at Bowman, but could be wrong.  If it was the boy I saw getting encouraged to move on by the Steward then he was older than me (52) and would definitely know of Bowman's legendary status (and also that he has no power/say in things).  Suspect Bowman took something personally that was intended for all of them not only him.

I watched Bow talk a lanky CH, who I thought was a waste of time, through a game against Whitehill Welfare from the sidelines.  He signed for Leicester last year for £15M+.  I suspect Bowman's coaching is more effective than the boys with iPads...I therefore don't agree with you Tek.  He can only be there on merit if he has survived the Asghar era.  The criticism is that perhaps he has should have talked out against the Fat Controller, but maybe he's got a mortgage to pay.