CCX2 2010 wrote:

JerryDungle wrote:

If Ogren wants to make sure he gets this right, he’ll take the hit on compo, and go get Derek McInnes and Tony Docherty. The 6 figure sum he’ll spend on getting them will be dwarfed by the hit he takes when we get relegated if the next appointment goes tits up.

McInnes would be the right choice for us, knows the club, loads of experience, would easily get us top 6 and pretty sure even Charlie and T.Watt would get behind him.

Big question is would he work for Asghar? McInnes is one of the most respected figures in Scottish football amongst managers, so will know exactly what went on with Jack Ross.

In my opinion there is not a chance that any manager with any sort of standing will take up the head coach role.

We are just about to appoint our 5th in Little over three year, that is a shocking stat that must be bleeding the club dry.

My guess is that we will appoint Fox as the Head coach  and cross our fingers that the guys play for him.

Is it just me or is there an air of apathy among our support, a sense of acceptance that we are fucked. Of course we have a section of our support who are off their trolley and won't see the train until it smacks them right in the puss but it seems that folk are scunnered with the whole lot?

I've edited this in case Mark Ogren reads this page. Scunnered is a Scots word which means fed up.

I get what you mean.  Normally when we’re without a manager I’m quite excited to see who we’ll bring in and constantly checking for rumours and news etc.  This time I’m
Not even thinking about it really, don’t expect much to really change and kind of accept it’s going to be Fox anyway unless we lose heavily on Saturday.
 

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Shakey Isles Arab wrote:

Tony Asghar

 
?

Sorry mate, just me trying to be smart.

If I knew how to do do emojis I would do one to sum up as follows:

- Completely and utterly exasperated by the whole situation.

At our club the manager can only be a coach at best.  Mulgrew by reports on here has had input into Ross sacking. Can't imagine that seriously, however TA would take cognisance of dressing room discontent.
+ Manager's hands are tied by Tony's control of purse strings.

So as it stands Asghar to a large extent is doing Manager's job - no need to apply.

 

 
No worries mate. Personally I'm not buying into any of the rumours, there's some absolute nonsense flying around. Grown ass men acting like gossiping schoolgirls. I just want us to win games, couldn't give a fuck about the rest of it.

Be amazed if it is not Liam Fox.

Tek wrote:

Snacks94 wrote:

Be amazed if it is not Liam Fox.

It will 100 percent be Fox.

Asghar using the likes of Ewan Smith and Alan Semple to drip feed us wee bits of info like this in preperation for Fox's inevitable appointment next week. It's so fucking obvious.

We will then get spun some shite like 'he's popular amongst the players' and 'everyone at the club is behind his appointment' etc etc.


 

 
I don't see the issue myself. There's absolutely no guarantee of success no matter who we appoint. Fox might well do a good job. Tam Courts wasn't popular either. Plus there's the obvious bonus of people having another stick to beat Tony Asghar with of course

Tek wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Tek wrote:

It will 100 percent be Fox.

Asghar using the likes of Ewan Smith and Alan Semple to drip feed us wee bits of info like this in preperation for Fox's inevitable appointment next week. It's so fucking obvious.

We will then get spun some shite like 'he's popular amongst the players' and 'everyone at the club is behind his appointment' etc etc.


 

 
I don't see the issue myself. There's absolutely no guarantee of success no matter who we appoint. Fox might well do a good job. Tam Courts wasn't popular either. Plus there's the obvious bonus of people having another stick to beat Tony Asghar with of course

See that last sentence, fucking boring 

If he appointed someone like Big Dunc or Neil Lennon then virtually no Utd supporter would use the appointment as a 'stick to beat him'. And yes, neither appointment would guarantee success.

But it would be appointments that would wake up and shake up the entire club and galvanise the support.

A good and necessary starting point. Because we aren't far away from apathy.
 

 
Personally I'd prefer that the board didn't go down to the populist route of appointing someone to shake up the club and support - these impacts tend to be short term at best and the often end badly. I'd just like a competent manager.

Also whoever is appointed, while the fans may he be initially delighted, if things unravel the fans will absolutely use it as a stick (or baseball bat) to hit Mr Asghar with. (evidence A - Jack Ross).

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Tek wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
I don't see the issue myself. There's absolutely no guarantee of success no matter who we appoint. Fox might well do a good job. Tam Courts wasn't popular either. Plus there's the obvious bonus of people having another stick to beat Tony Asghar with of course

See that last sentence, fucking boring 

If he appointed someone like Big Dunc or Neil Lennon then virtually no Utd supporter would use the appointment as a 'stick to beat him'. And yes, neither appointment would guarantee success.

But it would be appointments that would wake up and shake up the entire club and galvanise the support.

A good and necessary starting point. Because we aren't far away from apathy.
 

 
Personally I'd prefer that the board didn't go down to the populist route of appointing someone to shake up the club and support - these impacts tend to be short term at best and the often end badly. I'd just like a competent manager.

Also whoever is appointed, while the fans may he be initially delighted, if things unravel the fans will absolutely use it as a stick (or baseball bat) to hit Mr Asghar with. (evidence A - Jack Ross).

 
Wow, I actually agree with you for once. If only you could stop posting all the shite the rest of the time.

Fox, with Mulgrew promoted to 1st team coach will be OK for me.
Unfortunately in the modern game the level of success of these appointments depends a lot on whether the players like the decision.
TA will be aware that he can't have too many more fails.

AlwaysUnited wrote:

 
Personally I'd prefer that the board didn't go down to the populist route of appointing someone to shake up the club and support - these impacts tend to be short term at best and the often end badly. I'd just like a competent manager.

Also whoever is appointed, while the fans may he be initially delighted, if things unravel the fans will absolutely use it as a stick (or baseball bat) to hit Mr Asghar with. (evidence A - Jack Ross).

Firstly, AU, thank you for replying to me during your period of mourning.

Secondly, the last Manager we appointed who completely shook up the club from top to bottom was Craig Levein.

He done not bad at all.

Thirdly. and lastly, i never actually seen too many Utd fans blaming Tony Asghar for Jack Ross's appointment and his subsequent and premature dismissal.

I seen the vast majority blaming the players, and still holding certain players in disdain.
 

I don't understand why it's taking so long to appoint somebody within the club. Are we pretending to look elsewhere?

Lancashire-Arab wrote:

not so much a who I want but a what I want from any united manager.

For me it has been a long time since we had a coaching team that seemed to make players better than they were when they arrived at the club or came up through the ranks.  I have found myself looking at the players who have been bought or come through in recent years and ask which player are/ were better than when they arrived.  In the last 12 months maybe Ross Graham you could make a case for but we need to see how much more he develops.

This is key for a club of our size as we need to develop players as we cannot always go to the market and find better players.  When you look at our younger players on the fringes of the team none of them seem to have become any better than when they made their breakthrough, that has to be down to coaching and development.  Looking at someone like Ian Harkes, is he a better player than when he arrived and settled in Scotland I would say not really, he is now playing a higher level but he was more influential at the lower level.  Don't mean to single one player out as a lot fall into that category.

I wonder if the coaching structure we have in place, which seems to have so many more coaches focusing on the academy than the first team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee_United_F.C. ).  Given our current structure is it the head coach who is responsible for the improvement of the players in and around the first team or is that part of the sporting directors brief, however we also have people who are responsible for player development, player recruitment.  It would be great if we had some transparency on what the roles are responsible for and how we are measuring performance of them but i doubt we will ever receive that information.

My final question at this time is how much longer do we give this model, as yet we have been lucky in that we generated some income last year from Kerr Smith, Fuchs etc. but where is the next fee coming from, as stated developing and selling on is one of our main strategies.  How can we ensure we have recruited the correct head coach, our turnover (even excluding the JR mistake) has been too high in recent years for us to build any consistency and continuity, it has to stop with the next appointment.
 
apologies turned out more of a rant than planned

Great post LA.
 

MockChop wrote:

Liam Fox is the cheapest available option, and that’s the long & short of it.

Cheap is the way, because we are paying off another manager. Maybe the guy who picks the managers shouldn’t get to pick them.

 
You say we are paying off "another" manager.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of Neilson, Courts or Mellon were paid off, they left of their own volition. Ross is the first manager to have been "paid off".

AlwaysUnited wrote:

MockChop wrote:

Liam Fox is the cheapest available option, and that’s the long & short of it.

Cheap is the way, because we are paying off another manager. Maybe the guy who picks the managers shouldn’t get to pick them.

 
You say we are paying off "another" manager.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of Neilson, Courts or Mellon were paid off, they left of their own volition. Ross is the first manager to have been "paid off".

 
I’m sure there’s envelopes and NDA’s all over the place. Denying it would be silly