Ogren's loan to DUFC now sitting at over 9M.

I can't see how he is ever getting that back, let alone ever making a profit from the club.

Unless he is willing to stick around for years and years (would take us 10-15 years to pay that money back)

OR

We end up selling a player for serious, serious money (highly unlikely).

Or the Nuclear option i.e. he sells off Tannadice to developers and shacks up with Dundee FC in some council funded new stadium.

Our debt to Ogren worries me greatly tbh. 

At least Thompson was local.  Ogren will cut his losses at some point.  We really are in a dreadfully precarious position.  I still can't believe some people see Ogren and especially Asghar as saviours.  it won't end well.

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

At least Thompson was local.  Ogren will cut his losses at some point.  We really are in a dreadfully precarious position.  I still can't believe some people see Ogren and especially Asghar as saviours.  it won't end well.

 
You do realise that without Mark Ogren we would be dead already don't you?

 
Glad someone can see the bigger picture.

We would have been in admin without the Chairman's welcome intervention.

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

At least Thompson was local.  Ogren will cut his losses at some point.  We really are in a dreadfully precarious position.  I still can't believe some people see Ogren and especially Asghar as saviours.  it won't end well.

 
You do realise that without Mark Ogren we would be dead already don't you?

 
Glad someone can see the bigger picture.

We would have been in admin without the Chairman's welcome intervention.

Factually and technically incorrect - but why would either of those two be a pre-requisite to any of your posts.

If he moves on Asghar and replaces him well we've got a chance.

I believe that there must have been a push from the Chairman to TA to start proving the concept he sold him on or changes would need to be made.  This is the reason why i believe we have started to see players moved on and revenue sought - especially for those in the final year of their contract.

The concerns about player wages as a percentage of turnover are a bit of a concern but when you consider last season was behind closed doors we will have some additional match day revenue this year to top that up, with premier league prize money that may not have been received as per the financial year close we should be on a more even keel at the end of this financial year.

I would really like to see details on the academy costs and organisational structure as I am sure the volume of coaches and analysts we have in place are not cheap. The below extract from Wikipedia shows a lot of coaches and for those with the title 'Head of' it implies another layer below either paid or unpaid.  One thing is for sure that TA has been backed by the chairman and for me he will either be proved a genius ahead of his time or the biggest Charlatan in football only time will tell
Position                                                          Name
Manager                                                        Tam Courts
Assistant Manager                                         Liam Fox
Goalkeeping Coach                                       Tony Caig
Sporting Director                                            Tony Asghar
Head of Recruitment                                      [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Byrne_(footballer,_born_1961)]David Byrne[/url]
Football Operations Manager                         Ross Starke
Academy Director                                           Andy Goldie
Head Professional Performance Coach         Adam Asghar
Head of Talent ID & Recruitment                    Chris McKean
Head of Player Pathway and Loans               Brian Grant
Player Transition Coach                                 [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bowman_(footballer,_born_1964)]Dave Bowman[/url]
Head Academy Physiotherapist                     Jeff Clarke
Head of Player Development                         Andy Payne
Lead Physical Performance Coach               Ewan Anderson
Head of Academy Coaching                          Paul Cowie
Head of Academy Analysis                            Aaron Butters
Head of Academy and Regional Goalkeeeping   Daniel Hoban
Under 18s Head Coach                                Ryan Moon
Individual Development Coach Analyst        Liam Ross
Position Development Coach Analyst           Andrew Steeves
Academy Operations Manager                     Ben Mitchell
Pre Academy Events Manager                     Scott Madden
Player Care and Support Manager               Niall Nicolson  

Last edited by Lancashire-Arab (08/2/2022 4:51 pm)

Lancashire-Arab wrote:

I believe that there must have been a push from the Chairman to TA to start proving the concept he sold him on or changes would need to be made.  This is the reason why i believe we have started to see players moved on and revenue sought - especially for those in the final year of their contract.

The concerns about player wages as a percentage of turnover are a bit of a concern but when you consider last season was behind closed doors we will have some additional match day revenue this year to top that up, with premier league prize money that may not have been received as per the financial year close we should be on a more even keel at the end of this financial year.

I would really like to see details on the academy costs and organisational structure as I am sure the volume of coaches and analysts we have in place are not cheap. The below extract from Wikipedia shows a lot of coaches and for those with the title 'Head of' it implies another layer below either paid or unpaid.  One thing is for sure that TA has been backed by the chairman and for me he will either be proved a genius ahead of his time or the biggest Charlatan in football only time will tell
Position                                                          Name
Manager                                                        Tam Courts
Assistant Manager                                         Liam Fox
Goalkeeping Coach                                       Tony Caig
Sporting Director                                            Tony Asghar
Head of Recruitment                                      [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Byrne_(footballer,_born_1961)]David Byrne[/url]
Football Operations Manager                         Ross Starke
Academy Director                                           Andy Goldie
Head Professional Performance Coach         Adam Asghar
Head of Talent ID & Recruitment                    Chris McKean
Head of Player Pathway and Loans               Brian Grant
Player Transition Coach                                 [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bowman_(footballer,_born_1964)]Dave Bowman[/url]
Head Academy Physiotherapist                     Jeff Clarke
Head of Player Development                         Andy Payne
Lead Physical Performance Coach               Ewan Anderson
Head of Academy Coaching                          Paul Cowie
Head of Academy Analysis                            Aaron Butters
Head of Academy and Regional Goalkeeeping   Daniel Hoban
Under 18s Head Coach                                Ryan Moon
Individual Development Coach Analyst        Liam Ross
Position Development Coach Analyst           Andrew Steeves
Academy Operations Manager                     Ben Mitchell
Pre Academy Events Manager                     Scott Madden
Player Care and Support Manager               Niall Nicolson  

I'm hoping that this is just the modern way that everyone needs to be Head of something or Manager even if there is actually nobody to be head of or manage.  Given the way people at the club speak that is likely to be the case.

We clearly have too many in the way of backroom staff for a club of our size, but I hope that not all of them are on full time wages.

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

 
He's put 9 million of his own money into our club, for that he gets my utmost respect. Up to you if you feel differently though.

I think you have misunderstood me.  He of course gets my respect - that's a given - he has heavily invested in my club.  The point was we wouldn't have been dead in the water without him - there were others interested in the club.  True - he rocked up with the goods, but there were alternative options.

Where he loses my respect was in his appointment of Asghar to run the club after buying it.  He'll potentially regret that decision.

I just hope he is stubborn and has pockets deep enough to actually turn us around.  For me we are not significantly better placed than we were before.  We are reliant on one man and the club isn't any more viable long term without that one man.  Not ideal...

 
Who says we are "reliant" on Mr Asghar? I thought the club had an Executive Team? Don't the likes of Andy Goldie, Luigi Capuano, Derek Bond and Joe Rice have a role to play?

I would imagine that would all be offended and insulted by the accusation that the club are reliant on "one man".

Personally I enjoy being a fan of a club where a variety of views are tolerated around the board table, and I'm sure that will be the case at United.

Jeez you're not the brightest - the one man we are obviously reliant on and which doesn't need pointing out, other than to you, is Mr Ogren - where did I say it was Asghar?  You sir, are a clown.  I am beginning to think you are Asghar.  Self-importance syndrome and clearly not smart enough to be a wind-up merchant.

Whilst we are at it though I'm pretty sure Tony has the last say on most things, other than on here 

Last edited by Finn Seemann (08/2/2022 7:44 pm)

Finn Seemann wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

At least Thompson was local.  Ogren will cut his losses at some point.  We really are in a dreadfully precarious position.  I still can't believe some people see Ogren and especially Asghar as saviours.  it won't end well.

 
You do realise that without Mark Ogren we would be dead already don't you?

He wasn't the only interested party - I can say no more.

No, he wasn't.

A member of this very Forum was in talks with Thompson/Martin about buying them out and taking over the club. Not solely, but as the figurehead of a consortium. But the figure they quoted was too much and Ogren ultimately paid more.

He of course, has off-set his purchase as a 'loan' (and every other penny he has put into the club).

The individual and consortium in question had no desire to do the same.

Even without either party buying the club, i simply don't go along with this line that Ogren 'saved the club'. A line that Asghar has said to people many times and a line they want you to believe because it then gives them a get-out regardless of whatever happens subsequently.

If the very worst were to happen the fans would have stepped-up and saved the club either via a share issue or by donating to a consortium or fan body (like DUSF).

Dundee fans raised a significant amount to save their club in their hour of need. Utd fans would have out-stripped that. Of that i have no doubt.

The long term plan for Utd supporters has to be looking to really get DUSF substantially more funded over the next 5 years and looking to buy-out the Ogren's (and make the club fan owned), once their debt is chipped away at.

Look at the Foundation of Hearts for what can be achieved. Raised over 10M quid and bought out Budge.

That absolutely has to be the benchmark for a club like ours. The club in the hands of a group of (elected) Utd supporters.
 

Arabdownsouth wrote:

Tek wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

He wasn't the only interested party - I can say no more.

No, he wasn't.

A member of this very Forum was in talks with Thompson/Martin about buying them out and taking over the club. Not solely, but as the figurehead of a consortium. But the figure they quoted was too much and Ogren ultimately paid more.

He of course, has off-set his purchase as a 'loan' (and every other penny he has put into the club).

The individual and consortium in question had no desire to do the same.

Even without either party buying the club, i simply don't go along with this line that Ogren 'saved the club'. A line that Asghar has said to people many times and a line they want you to believe because it then gives them a get-out regardless of whatever happens subsequently.

If the very worst were to happen the fans would have stepped-up and saved the club either via a share issue or by donating to a consortium or fan body (like DUSF).

Dundee fans raised a significant amount to save their club in their hour of need. Utd fans would have out-stripped that. Of that i have no doubt.

The long term plan for Utd supporters has to be looking to really get DUSF substantially more funded over the next 5 years and looking to buy-out the Ogren's (and make the club fan owned), once their debt is chipped away at.

Look at the Foundation of Hearts for what can be achieved. Raised over 10M quid and bought out Budge.

That absolutely has to be the benchmark for a club like ours. The club in the hands of a group of (elected) Utd supporters.
 

 
Maybe the fans would have stepped up to save the club, we'd be nowhere near the top flight though. Can we not just give the man some credit, its still a serious amount of dosh he's laid out whether it's loans or not. Would you want to loan out a significant chunk of your life savings or pension pot? I know I feckin wouldn't

I can't give him any credit, no.

He made an investment. He wants the money he's outlayed back. Every penny of it. And then wants to make money from Utd (his investment).

If we had been bought-out by a consortium of Utd supporting businessmen or a fan group, we may not be in the Premiership yet. Or we may be. Impossible for anyone to say.

But we absolutely wouldn't be beholden to just one man.
 

Arabdownsouth wrote:

, we still have a club.

Utd would never have died ADS.

If nothing else, don't buy into that line regarding the Ogren's purchase of our club.




 

Tek wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

, we still have a club.

Utd would never have died ADS.

If nothing else, don't buy into that line regarding the Ogren's purchase of our club.




 

 
Of course Mr Ogren saved us. If a consortium of fans were turned down because they couldn't afford what Thompson was looking for, that speaks volumes. Mr Ogren could afford it, and has subsequently spent substantial sums on the following -

Developing the stadium,

Investing in a a resilient pathway programme across the age groups

Achieved Elite Status

Established a robust governance structure as at all levels of the club, ensuring we have the highest calibre of individuals in the boardroom

Financed the purchase of, at different times, the top scorer in Scottish football, the top scorer in the Premier League, and a large number of internationally active players

Negotiated excellent packages with substantial sell on clauses for our departing players, with several leaving to join English Premier League clubs.

Now tell me again how he hasn't saved the club, LOL

Last edited by AlwaysUnited (09/2/2022 9:04 am)

Tek wrote:

AlwaysUnited wrote:

Tek wrote:

Utd would never have died ADS.

If nothing else, don't buy into that line regarding the Ogren's purchase of our club.




 

 
Of course Mr Ogren saved us. If a consortium of fans were turned down because they couldn't afford what Thompson was looking for, that speaks volumes. Mr Ogren could afford it, and has subsequently spent substantial sums on the following -

Developing the stadium,

Investing in a a resilient pathway programme across the age groups

Achieved Elite Status

Established a robust governance structure as at all levels of the club, ensuring we have the highest calibre of individuals in the boardroom

Financed the purchase of, at different times, the top scorer in Scottish football, the top scorer in the Premier League, and a large number of internationally active players

Negotiated excellent packages with substantial sell on clauses for our departing players, with several leaving to join English Premier League clubs.

Now tell me again how he hasn't saved the club, LOL

He never saved the club. 

Not unless you doubt Utd fans wouldn't have pulled the club out of the mud. Is that what, you're saying?

p.s.

'Several leaving for Premier League clubs, with substantial add-on's'.

You don't half talk some amount of shite.
 

 
I'm guessing you've never heard of:

Scott Banks (Crystal Palace)
Kerr Smith (Aston Villa)

Last time I checked, both of the aforementioned clubs played in the English Premier League.

Last edited by AlwaysUnited (09/2/2022 9:53 am)