Tekel Towers » Alleged racist incident

motherwellarab · 03/10/2021 12:53 pm

Read a few posts from County fans who were there and there saying nothing racist at all was said or shouted and in small crowd of 75 they reckon they would definitely have heard it and apparently a few stewards in there area have said nothing racist was shouted, obviously if its proved a fan did shout anything racist then hope he or she is banned and given police charge but if its not correct then I think we owe County an apology

Tek · 03/10/2021 2:24 pm

County statement.

If (as seems likely) no racist language was used, then i think they do have a cause to be annoyed by Courts behaviour at full time.

Accusing someone, anyone, of racism is about the most serious accusation you can label at their character. So you better have concrete proof if you are going to insinuate such a thing with your actions.

Can you imagine our fans uproar if an opposition Manager acted this way towards Utd supporters when they were innocent of such an accusation? We are fooling ourselves if we think we wouldn't be angry.

https://www.rosscountyfootballclub.co.uk/news-items/club-statement-from-our-ceo

Shedtastic · 03/10/2021 2:34 pm

Yeah it's beginning to look like TC has made a cunt of himself here.

Tangy · 03/10/2021 4:06 pm

Not sure where I sit on this one.

Obviously, racist behaviour is a terrible thing and the club are right to investigate any allegations and if found guilty the people should face the consequences...

On one hand, Court has taken his player on his word and defended the player and sent a statement out....but it looks like there may not have been any racist words spoken and instead was swearing.... and we've falsely accused County fans of racism. (Not that i agree with an eye for an eye but county did go to the press Not so long ago complaining about our fans behaviour).

The most important thing is a proper investigation is conducted and the clubs get to the bottom of it. If it turns out that it wasn't I'd fully expect an apology from Courts

nomad · 03/10/2021 4:17 pm

Clearly we don't have all the facts here, but what we do know is that Jeando thought that there had be racist language used, was clearly upset by it, and reported it to the 4th official.

We don't know what happened in the half-time discussion, but lets speculate for a moment that a bunch of middle aged white guys got in a room and "decided" that nothing racist had happened. Was Jeando in the room? Presumably not, and presumably neither was TC.

Frankly unless TC was deliberately attention seeking when he knew there was nothing to the allegation then I say well done TC for standing up for his player, and taking a stand, and doing what he thought was right in the heat of the moment.

And as for making a cunt of themselves, that award goes to everyone who says Jeando got it wrong without knowing what he "heard" in my book, even though that does appear to be the consensus view at the moment.

nomad · 03/10/2021 4:23 pm

I'd have loved if the Ross County CEO statement had actually included what they have concluded what was said. It is interesting that they say no racist language had been used, however swearing and foul language had. That leaves a bit of wiggle room that stating what they actually thought was said would remove. Also, they mention a supporters chant, whereas the original reporting was of an individual in the crowd.

I hope whatever was said, Jeando is able to continue being a great player for us, and that this doesn't follow him into future matches, either in his demeanor or in other fans seeing him as a soft target for non-racist abuse.

Tek · 03/10/2021 4:34 pm

nomad wrote:
Clearly we don't have all the facts here, but what we do know is that Jeando thought that there had be racist language used, was clearly upset by it, and reported it to the 4th official.

We don't know what happened in the half-time discussion, but lets speculate for a moment that a bunch of middle aged white guys got in a room and "decided" that nothing racist had happened. Was Jeando in the room? Presumably not, and presumably neither was TC.

Frankly unless TC was deliberately attention seeking when he knew there was nothing to the allegation then I say well done TC for standing up for his player, and taking a stand, and doing what he thought was right in the heat of the moment.

And as for making a cunt of themselves, that award goes to everyone who says Jeando got it wrong without knowing what he "heard" in my book, even though that does appear to be the consensus view at the moment.

That's a helluva take. That white people from both clubs swept racism under the carpet. Dearie me.

No-one is saying Jeando is a liar. He obviously believed he heard something untoward. But it is quite possible he simply misheard what was chanted. Lost in translation, if you will.

Surely folk that were sitting right beside the County fans would be in a better position to confirm what was said/chanted than a player on the pitch. Btw at least two of the Utd stewards in the vicinity of the County fans were black themselves. Would they also sweep this alleged racism under the carpet? Of course they wouldn't.

Tangy · 03/10/2021 5:33 pm

Not often I agree with tek....but here we are

In the above situation, its assumed that firstly all the united and county officials are white and that they are happy to hide racism. If that's what you think of our club, you clearly don't think a lot of them at all.

Let's face it - the highland accent is interesting to say the least. For instance (I've no idea what was said) 'bloody' b***ard could sound like a far more racist word or phrase.

TC sticking up for a player isn't my big issue - my issue is that he made a VERY public statement which now looks like it was not made with all the facts to hand.

I'd say again, if the investigation shows that no racist words were spoken then TC needs to apologise. It doesn't need to be grovelling but something along the lines of we thought there had been racist shouting and I will always support and back my players against injustices and racism. However, in this instance, its been proved that there was a misunderstanding.

Arabdownsouth · 03/10/2021 5:50 pm

Tangy wrote:
Not often I agree with tek....but here we are

In the above situation, its assumed that firstly all the united and county officials are white and that they are happy to hide racism. If that's what you think of our club, you clearly don't think a lot of them at all.

Let's face it - the highland accent is interesting to say the least. For instance (I've no idea what was said) 'bloody' b***ard could sound like a far more racist word or phrase.

TC sticking up for a player isn't my big issue - my issue is that he made a VERY public statement which now looks like it was not made with all the facts to hand.

I'd say again, if the investigation shows that no racist words were spoken then TC needs to apologise. It doesn't need to be grovelling but something along the lines of we thought there had been racist shouting and I will always support and back my players against injustices and racism. However, in this instance, its been proved that there was a misunderstanding.

Does he actually have to apologise for flying the anti racism banner though? Whether or not anything untoward was said it's still not exactly the wrong message to send out, especially with a proven racist sitting on the other bench. I say fuck County, fuck Malky McKay I'm right behind Tam for standing up for his players

Tangy · 03/10/2021 6:30 pm

If County had accused our support of racism and it was found to be incorrect (investigation ongoing), would you want RC to clear us of any wrong doing?

Arabdownsouth · 03/10/2021 6:41 pm

Tangy wrote:
If County had accused our support of racism and it was found to be incorrect (investigation ongoing), would you want RC to clear us of any wrong doing?

I'll wait for the outcome tbh. County have a proven racist in charge of the team so fuck knows what moral code they are using, I'm definitely siding with Tam on this one.

Tek · 03/10/2021 6:54 pm

Tangy wrote:
If County had accused our support of racism and it was found to be incorrect (investigation ongoing), would you want RC to clear us of any wrong doing?

Exactly.

Picture the scene. Steven Gerrard holds the same t-shirt towards Utd fans and points fingers at us whilst mouthing off.

It's then subsequently materialises that Utd and Rangers officials agreed at half time that no racist language was used by Utd fans.

Would we honestly be saying 'och, he was just holding up an anti-racism t-shirt, no harm done'. Or would we as a support instead be furious that he had try to besmirch the name of our club and supporters before getting his facts straight?

Anyone saying the former is lying to themselves. We would also be accusing him of grandstanding to the Rangers support and in doing so endangering the safety of Utd supporters exiting the stadium. County have a point here, i'm afraid. Lots of people don't seem to see that due to their dislike of Malkay MacKay. But their thoughts on him and the facts regarding the alleged incident yesterday shouldn't be conflated into one blurred opinion.

I have no problem with TC strongly backing his players, but he's jumped the gun here imo with his actions at full time. He should have supported Jeando privately and with calmness until the investigation was complete.

It also strikes me that County and their tiny support have came across as a bit of an easy target.

If an alleged racist incident had taken place at Ibrox involving a Utd player would he have walked towards the Copeland Road end waving the same t-shirt? Course he wouldn't.

An unfortunate incident all round and hopefully a few lessons learned on how to treat such a serious incident and accusation should it happen in future.

Arabdownsouth · 03/10/2021 7:00 pm

Tek wrote:
Tangy wrote:
If County had accused our support of racism and it was found to be incorrect (investigation ongoing), would you want RC to clear us of any wrong doing?
Exactly.

Picture the scene. Steven Gerrard holds the same t-shirt towards Utd fans and points fingers at us whilst mouthing off.

It's then subsequently materialises that Utd and Rangers officials agreed at half time that no racist language was used by Utd fans.

Would we honestly be saying 'och, he was just holding up an anti-racism t-shirt, no harm done'. Or would we as a support instead be furious that he had try to besmirch the name of our club and supporters before getting his facts straight?

Anyone saying the former is lying to themselves. We would also be accusing him of grandstanding to the Rangers support and in doing so endangering the safety of Utd supporters exiting the stadium. County have a point here, i'm afraid. Lots of people don't seem to see that due to their dislike of Malkay MacKay. But their thoughts on him and the facts regarding the alleged incident yesterday shouldn't be conflated into one blurred opinion.

I have no problem with TC strongly backing his players, but he's jumped the gun here imo with his actions at full time. He should have supported Jeando privately and with calmness until the investigation was complete.

It also strikes me that County and their tiny support have came across as a bit of an easy target.

If an alleged racist incident had taken place at Ibrox involving a Utd player would he have walked towards the Copeland Road end waving the same t-shirt? Course he wouldn't.

An unfortunate incident all round and hopefully a few lessons learned on how to treat such a serious incident and accusation should it happen in future.

Tbh you're saying Tam's jumped the gun, but plenty of posters doing the same thing here when all we have is a denial from County fans, that proves absolutely nothing. Unless it's been recorded we will probably never know for sure what's been said or hasn't been said. Based on that, I'm siding with Tam rather than murky McKay and the Highland 38.

Tek · 03/10/2021 7:16 pm

Arabdownsouth wrote:
Tek wrote:
Tangy wrote:
If County had accused our support of racism and it was found to be incorrect (investigation ongoing), would you want RC to clear us of any wrong doing?
Exactly.

Picture the scene. Steven Gerrard holds the same t-shirt towards Utd fans and points fingers at us whilst mouthing off.

It's then subsequently materialises that Utd and Rangers officials agreed at half time that no racist language was used by Utd fans.

Would we honestly be saying 'och, he was just holding up an anti-racism t-shirt, no harm done'. Or would we as a support instead be furious that he had try to besmirch the name of our club and supporters before getting his facts straight?

Anyone saying the former is lying to themselves. We would also be accusing him of grandstanding to the Rangers support and in doing so endangering the safety of Utd supporters exiting the stadium. County have a point here, i'm afraid. Lots of people don't seem to see that due to their dislike of Malkay MacKay. But their thoughts on him and the facts regarding the alleged incident yesterday shouldn't be conflated into one blurred opinion.

I have no problem with TC strongly backing his players, but he's jumped the gun here imo with his actions at full time. He should have supported Jeando privately and with calmness until the investigation was complete.

It also strikes me that County and their tiny support have came across as a bit of an easy target.

If an alleged racist incident had taken place at Ibrox involving a Utd player would he have walked towards the Copeland Road end waving the same t-shirt? Course he wouldn't.

An unfortunate incident all round and hopefully a few lessons learned on how to treat such a serious incident and accusation should it happen in future.

Tbh you're saying Tam's jumped the gun, but plenty of posters doing the same thing here when all we have is a denial from County fans, that proves absolutely nothing. Unless it's been recorded we will probably never know for sure what's been said or hasn't been said. Based on that, I'm siding with Tam rather than murky McKay and the Highland 38.

Utd Security officer and stewards in the area confirmed they heard no racist language. That's not to say nothing definitely wasn't said but without clear proof you can't just go condemning an entire support as TC's actions insinuated.

Arabdownsouth · 03/10/2021 7:22 pm

Tek wrote:
Arabdownsouth wrote:
Tek wrote:

Exactly.

Picture the scene. Steven Gerrard holds the same t-shirt towards Utd fans and points fingers at us whilst mouthing off.

It's then subsequently materialises that Utd and Rangers officials agreed at half time that no racist language was used by Utd fans.

Would we honestly be saying 'och, he was just holding up an anti-racism t-shirt, no harm done'. Or would we as a support instead be furious that he had try to besmirch the name of our club and supporters before getting his facts straight?

Anyone saying the former is lying to themselves. We would also be accusing him of grandstanding to the Rangers support and in doing so endangering the safety of Utd supporters exiting the stadium. County have a point here, i'm afraid. Lots of people don't seem to see that due to their dislike of Malkay MacKay. But their thoughts on him and the facts regarding the alleged incident yesterday shouldn't be conflated into one blurred opinion.

I have no problem with TC strongly backing his players, but he's jumped the gun here imo with his actions at full time. He should have supported Jeando privately and with calmness until the investigation was complete.

It also strikes me that County and their tiny support have came across as a bit of an easy target.

If an alleged racist incident had taken place at Ibrox involving a Utd player would he have walked towards the Copeland Road end waving the same t-shirt? Course he wouldn't.

An unfortunate incident all round and hopefully a few lessons learned on how to treat such a serious incident and accusation should it happen in future.

Tbh you're saying Tam's jumped the gun, but plenty of posters doing the same thing here when all we have is a denial from County fans, that proves absolutely nothing. Unless it's been recorded we will probably never know for sure what's been said or hasn't been said. Based on that, I'm siding with Tam rather than murky McKay and the Highland 38.
Utd Security officer and stewards in the area confirmed they heard no racist language. That's not to say nothing definitely wasn't said but without clear proof you can't just go condemning an entire support as TC's actions insinuated.

38 fans I believe, is that really an entire support? 😋

Tek · 03/10/2021 7:30 pm

Arabdownsouth wrote:
Tek wrote:
Arabdownsouth wrote:

Tbh you're saying Tam's jumped the gun, but plenty of posters doing the same thing here when all we have is a denial from County fans, that proves absolutely nothing. Unless it's been recorded we will probably never know for sure what's been said or hasn't been said. Based on that, I'm siding with Tam rather than murky McKay and the Highland 38.
Utd Security officer and stewards in the area confirmed they heard no racist language. That's not to say nothing definitely wasn't said but without clear proof you can't just go condemning an entire support as TC's actions insinuated.

38 fans I believe, is that really an entire support? 😋

Their entire support in attendance, i meant.

Arabdownsouth · 03/10/2021 7:37 pm

Tek wrote:
Arabdownsouth wrote:
Tek wrote:

Exactly.

Picture the scene. Steven Gerrard holds the same t-shirt towards Utd fans and points fingers at us whilst mouthing off.

It's then subsequently materialises that Utd and Rangers officials agreed at half time that no racist language was used by Utd fans.

Would we honestly be saying 'och, he was just holding up an anti-racism t-shirt, no harm done'. Or would we as a support instead be furious that he had try to besmirch the name of our club and supporters before getting his facts straight?

Anyone saying the former is lying to themselves. We would also be accusing him of grandstanding to the Rangers support and in doing so endangering the safety of Utd supporters exiting the stadium. County have a point here, i'm afraid. Lots of people don't seem to see that due to their dislike of Malkay MacKay. But their thoughts on him and the facts regarding the alleged incident yesterday shouldn't be conflated into one blurred opinion.

I have no problem with TC strongly backing his players, but he's jumped the gun here imo with his actions at full time. He should have supported Jeando privately and with calmness until the investigation was complete.

It also strikes me that County and their tiny support have came across as a bit of an easy target.

If an alleged racist incident had taken place at Ibrox involving a Utd player would he have walked towards the Copeland Road end waving the same t-shirt? Course he wouldn't.

An unfortunate incident all round and hopefully a few lessons learned on how to treat such a serious incident and accusation should it happen in future.

Tbh you're saying Tam's jumped the gun, but plenty of posters doing the same thing here when all we have is a denial from County fans, that proves absolutely nothing. Unless it's been recorded we will probably never know for sure what's been said or hasn't been said. Based on that, I'm siding with Tam rather than murky McKay and the Highland 38.
Utd Security officer and stewards in the area confirmed they heard no racist language. That's not to say nothing definitely wasn't said but without clear proof you can't just go condemning an entire support as TC's actions insinuated.

But folk are happy to condemn Tam with no proof that it didn't happen?

Tek · 03/10/2021 8:00 pm

Arabdownsouth wrote:
Tek wrote:
Arabdownsouth wrote:

Tbh you're saying Tam's jumped the gun, but plenty of posters doing the same thing here when all we have is a denial from County fans, that proves absolutely nothing. Unless it's been recorded we will probably never know for sure what's been said or hasn't been said. Based on that, I'm siding with Tam rather than murky McKay and the Highland 38.
Utd Security officer and stewards in the area confirmed they heard no racist language. That's not to say nothing definitely wasn't said but without clear proof you can't just go condemning an entire support as TC's actions insinuated.

But folk are happy to condemn Tam with no proof that it didn't happen?

Hardly condemning TC. Just felt his actions at full time were reactionary (something he claims to pride himself on not being) and a little unprofessional. But that's just me.

I see you swerved my comparison with how we would feel if Gerrard or McPake or whoever treated our supporters the same way.

Tangy · 03/10/2021 8:00 pm

I'm not really wanting to get any more involved on this one but nobody has condemned him. I think I said that if it's proven to be a mistake - he should apologise. I dont think that's unreasonable.

Hes backed his player - fair - but if its proven his actions were incorrect, I'm sure he will be big enough to say so.

This (to me) is not a chance to score points or take a shot at Courts - in 2021, its one of the most sensitive things you can be accused of... you can't throw words around lightly. (Or actions in this case)

Last edited by Tangy (03/10/2021 8:01 pm)

Tek · 03/10/2021 8:18 pm

Tangy wrote:
- in 2021, its one of the most sensitive things you can be accused of... you can't throw words around lightly. (Or actions in this case)

Correct. An accusation of this type can lead to people losing their job and livelihood as well obliterate their character and how they are viewed within society.

So, in such instances you better have concrete proof before you insinuate racism has taken place. It is an extremely serious and sensitive subject and cool heads are required when these situations arise.

Again, i hope some lessons are learned from yesterday.

Arabdownsouth · 03/10/2021 8:30 pm

Tek wrote:
Arabdownsouth wrote:
Tek wrote:

Utd Security officer and stewards in the area confirmed they heard no racist language. That's not to say nothing definitely wasn't said but without clear proof you can't just go condemning an entire support as TC's actions insinuated.

But folk are happy to condemn Tam with no proof that it didn't happen?
Hardly condemning TC. Just felt his actions at full time were reactionary (something he claims to pride himself on not being) and a little unprofessional. But that's just me.

I see you swerved my comparison with how we would feel if Gerrard or McPake or whoever treated our supporters the same way.

I didn't swerve anything, my answer was I'd wait for the outcome. And I wasn't referring to just yourself.

Shakey Isles Arab · 03/10/2021 9:39 pm

Jeando definitely thought he heard something.
Tam definitely 100% believed him.
Tam should definitely have stood by his man 100%
RC as club definitely have to stand by their double digit travelling support.
Rock and a hard place.

However like Shed says beginning to look like Tam's made a bit of a dick of himself here.
Didnae make must sense tae me at the time - Jeando copping racist garbage when RC's best player was black.

If incident builds a tighter bond between Tam/Jeando good.
If Jeando cops dogs abuse up in Dingwall that doesnae do Jeando any good.
Because watching DUTV interviews & looking at photae of him'n his wee boy, he seems a gentle genail smiley wee guy. One of these guys who tough as nails on the park is polar opposite personality to what he is offfield.
Let's hope it doesnae affect him that's the main thing.

Leave it a week or two to cool down then Tam can issue carefully worded apology. Whatever is said between Tam/Jeando's down tae them.
Meantime we'll have amusement of Griffith's latest misdeneaours, more importantly World Cup qualification for everyone to worry about.

Last edited by Shakey Isles Arab (04/10/2021 1:13 am)

AlonsMosely · 04/10/2021 12:00 pm

Backed Court's to the hilt so far this season but fear he has maybe acted a bit prematurely on this one.....time will tell

Finn Seemann · 04/10/2021 1:01 pm

Not sure what the fuss is here. Courts reacts to reported racist incident by showing those potentially guilty of the act, football's anti-racism T-shirt. If it turns out that there was a misunderstanding then he can apologise for jumping to conclusions in the heat of the moment and that should be that - there should be no shame or recriminations for standing up for the right thing. For that he has gone way up in my estimations. It sends a message (the right message) that racism at the game will not be tolerated. I can't see how County fans can get over-excited if they are indeed innocent as it looks may be the case.

I'd rather the club reacted as Courts did to the possibility that racist abuse may have occurred rather than potentially be seen to condone it because we are not 100% sure that it happened. It is zero tolerance after all. Correct message sent and well done Tam.

The County fans could have defused the situation by applauding Courts holding up the t-shirt and then we'd know better where they stood rather than their club having to roll out a very strange formal denial to the media on their behalf....

Although I can appreciate the club (and not the fans any of whom I have spoken to didn't want their current manager for the very reason) are a bit touchy given the track record of condoning racists.

Last edited by Finn Seemann (04/10/2021 1:07 pm)

AlwaysUnited · 04/10/2021 1:26 pm

Finn Seemann wrote:
Not sure what the fuss is here. Courts reacts to reported racist incident by showing those potentially guilty of the act, football's anti-racism T-shirt. If it turns out that there was a misunderstanding then he can apologise for jumping to conclusions in the heat of the moment and that should be that - there should be no shame or recriminations for standing up for the right thing. For that he has gone way up in my estimations. It sends a message (the right message) that racism at the game will not be tolerated. I can't see how County fans can get over-excited if they are indeed innocent as it looks may be the case.

I'd rather the club reacted as Courts did to the possibility that racist abuse may have occurred rather than potentially be seen to condone it because we are not 100% sure that it happened. It is zero tolerance after all. Correct message sent and well done Tam.

The County fans could have defused the situation by applauding Courts holding up the t-shirt and then we'd know better where they stood rather than their club having to roll out a very strange formal denial to the media on their behalf....

Although I can appreciate the club (and not the fans any of whom I have spoken to didn't want their current manager for the very reason) are a bit touchy given the track record of condoning racists.

To repeat a point made by others above, if the tables had turned there would be merry hell to pay from United fans if they were unjustly accused in such a public manner, I shudder to imagine the reaction. To use another analogy, if I followed an innocent person around with a banner saying "Down with sex offenders" whilst pointing at them - they could reasonably be upset at my actions whilst still agreeing with the general principal, and I'd imagine County fans felt the same when Tam was pointing at them and displaying the slogan. I can see why they didn't applaud him in the heat of the moment.

It is never a good idea to go steaming in throwing accusations about without being in possession of all the facts, and that is what Tam did here, when a calm head would have better served the situation. We all get overcome by raw emotion, but the mark of a good leader is the ability to harness it and use it effectively. I'm sure Tam will reflect and learn from this incident though.

A joint statement from both clubs, with quotes from the managers, would go a long a way to defusing the situation.

Of course, if there is actual evidence of racism, they the individual(s) involved should face the full force of the law as well a ban from attending any future matches.

Last edited by AlwaysUnited (04/10/2021 1:28 pm)