https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53167718

Tobias Smollett wrote:

smedDUm wrote:

Tobias Smollett wrote:

It'll all come down to interpretation of the law, which is always subjective.  Whoever presides over the matter will ultimately decide the outcome, as both sides have reasonable grounds for their actions. 

For example, if it's the Lord Wolfe QC - a well-kent Jambo - then we're probably fucked.  That said, we still have to see the SPFLs response, which we'll see in two days time.

Is this not a contradiction Toby?
All's fair unless the judge is a Jambo?
 

No, not really.   As I've said, both arguments are fairly equally viable.  It will come down to interpretation of the law, the interpretation of whomsoever presides over proceedings.  We all have our biases, right?

My gut feeling, is that the Court will find some sort of middle ground.  That the SPFLs decisions will remain unchanged - wrt promotion and relegation - but that Hearts and Partick will be compensated.  I would imagine the compensation figure to be in the hundreds of thousands instead of the millions that they're seeking.  I also think that both clubs know this, hence, why they have set the bar so high.

 
Agree with this take on how things will probably go.

New to this boys and girls,  be gentle with me!

A few comments on some of the points raised about the case, having read the writ Tek posted. 

First, don’t be surprised if Utd don’t do anything in court. If they do, they risk Hearts asking the court to pay some or all of their costs. Separately, the case is only against SPFL. Utd were only served with the writ because the court rules say that has to happen, so we are aware that if Hearts win, we might not be promoted. SPFL’s QC will defend Utds corner even if we do nothing. If we do do something, it may only be because SPFL has agreed to underwrite our legal bill and pick up any costs awarded against us.

Hearts case is that they were unfairly prejudiced by the SPFL resolution to call the leagues. Their first argument - they would have stayed up if the league had carried on - seems pretty weak.  Their second is more interesting to lawyers. However, even if it succeeds, the court has to decide what orders are necessary to take away the prejudice. It doesn’t have to cancel promotion/relegation or order SPFL to pay Hearts cash.

Anyway, if Hearts win, it may not take them very far - SPFL rule A4 appears to let the SPFL board decide how long a season lasts. So, even if argument 2 succeeds, the board might just decide to re-call the leagues without asking for prior approval from the clubs this time.

The second argument is more complicated. Hearts argue that the SPFL rules say that if a club sends it an email, the SPFL is deemed to have received it immediately. So, they argue, if the FUN did send SPFL an email rejecting the resolution, it doesn’t matter that it hit the spam folder - SPFL are deemed to have known about it. If that’s right, the FUN email sank the resolution as it didn’t have the support of 75% of championship clubs. The later change of heart (induced or otherwise) would then be too late.

I think Pat is right about the timing of today’s announcement - there will have been a tactical reason for it - but wrong about its meaning, I think. It looks like  SPFL is just putting its house in order in case the virus hits next season too.

Hope some of this helps some of you

Milnewiththechip, that's a great summation!

I'm even less bothered about what will happen in this situation now.

Next, Milnewiththechip, who will be the new manager? 

Milnewiththechip wrote:

New to this boys and girls, be gentle with me!

A few comments on some of the points raised about the case, having read the writ Tek posted.

First, don’t be surprised if Utd don’t do anything in court. If they do, they risk Hearts asking the court to pay some or all of their costs. Separately, the case is only against SPFL. Utd were only served with the writ because the court rules say that has to happen, so we are aware that if Hearts win, we might not be promoted. SPFL’s QC will defend Utds corner even if we do nothing. If we do do something, it may only be because SPFL has agreed to underwrite our legal bill and pick up any costs awarded against us.

Hearts case is that they were unfairly prejudiced by the SPFL resolution to call the leagues. Their first argument - they would have stayed up if the league had carried on - seems pretty weak. Their second is more interesting to lawyers. However, even if it succeeds, the court has to decide what orders are necessary to take away the prejudice. It doesn’t have to cancel promotion/relegation or order SPFL to pay Hearts cash.

Anyway, if Hearts win, it may not take them very far - SPFL rule A4 appears to let the SPFL board decide how long a season lasts. So, even if argument 2 succeeds, the board might just decide to re-call the leagues without asking for prior approval from the clubs this time.

The second argument is more complicated. Hearts argue that the SPFL rules say that if a club sends it an email, the SPFL is deemed to have received it immediately. So, they argue, if the FUN did send SPFL an email rejecting the resolution, it doesn’t matter that it hit the spam folder - SPFL are deemed to have known about it. If that’s right, the FUN email sank the resolution as it didn’t have the support of 75% of championship clubs. The later change of heart (induced or otherwise) would then be too late.

I think Pat is right about the timing of today’s announcement - there will have been a tactical reason for it - but wrong about its meaning, I think. It looks like SPFL is just putting its house in order in case the virus hits next season too.

Hope some of this helps some of you

Welcome to the Forum, Milne and good take on (what is) a very complicated situation.

I did have the same thoughts as yourself btw as regards Utd's involvement. As one of the 'respondents' who could be liable to pay Hearts/Partick's legal costs, surely if we simply 'don't respond' we can't be?

As you said let the SPFL battle it out in the courts as the defence. 
 

See the thing with the Dundee e-mail, apparently any club who votes No to an SPFL resolution has 28 days in which their allowed to change their vote according to SPFL rules.  Surely if that is the case then the Dundee vote complaints a dead duck?

As for the point of being unfairly prejudiced by the calling of the leagues - Hearts voted for it.

bowers wrote:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dundee-united-raith-cove-offered-22248147?1

 At last! Some support after a good few days of media gobshite havering backing Budge and Hearts.

bowers wrote:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dundee-united-raith-cove-offered-22248147?1

Celtic has to be one of the clubs.
 

Arabnophobia wrote:

Since this legal case was started I've been mair stressed than by Covid fkn19.

Found myself clenching my fist in Aldi ready tae punch the dairy section recently because I couldn't find the chocolate mouse 6 packs due to this fkn caper.

I will celebrate in the same style as I did when awarded the Championship when we are clear if this Hearts/Budge/media/legal attack!

 
Welcome to the new normal 😂

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53180650

case to be heard on Tuesday at 10am. Hopefully it gets thrown the fuck out and we are back on track by Tuesday at 10.15am.

I'm more worried about the impact this has on our season re delays on signings than I have of us actually not being in the Premiership. Absolute fucking nightmare to be honest. Sick of it.

Last edited by LarsErikKjell (25/6/2020 12:44 pm)

Arabdownsouth wrote:

LarsErikKjell wrote:

I'm more worried about the impact this has on our season re delays on signings than I have of us actually not being in the Premiership. Absolute fucking nightmare to be honest. Sick of it.

 
I'm worried on both counts tbh, although I reckon the spfl would have to force through reconstruction in the event of promotion being cancelled or face another court case from ourselves and our fellow 'respondents'

Yes I've felt this from the start. I think in terms of best suited to United the possible outcomes are:

1) case thrown out - league goes ahead as normal
2) forced reconstruction
3) some level of compensation and end to season stands as voted by clubs
4) they win and we are in the Championship next season

I cant see any chance of option 4 happening if I'm honest.
 

smedDUm wrote:

Arabdownsouth wrote:

LarsErikKjell wrote:

I'm more worried about the impact this has on our season re delays on signings than I have of us actually not being in the Premiership. Absolute fucking nightmare to be honest. Sick of it.

 
I'm worried on both counts tbh, although I reckon the spfl would have to force through reconstruction in the event of promotion being cancelled or face another court case from ourselves and our fellow 'respondents'

I wonder if Lidl's down south stock chocolate mousse 6 packs Ads?
Worth a look and if they don't, do try to resist giving the dairy section a pounding!  

You're already banned from Aldi.
 

 
Never catch me eating chocolate mousse ffs! 😂