Tekel Towers » The Utd '83 side

Tek · 04/9/2024 12:52 am

Just a wee poser to pass the boredom of International week.

If the 82/83 Utd side are perceived as our best ever. Is there another Utd side who could beat them in a one off Final?

And if so, who and why?

David_Blunkett · 04/9/2024 7:31 am

The most obvious answer would be probably, yes, quite a few could, mostly down to fitness the way the game has changed and the fact a huge core of that 82/83 team often shat their pants in one off games.

But I think the 1994 team in that cup run showed great fight, dig, determination and skill (which sadly disappeared over the summer) they'd give it a good go.

And then the 2010 team, superb to watch in the 5-6 months lead up to the final.

Some might go as far as Jackie's team, but if you look back, they couldn't defend worth a fuck and the perceived great run where we scored 4 every week, was about over 6 games, mostly against pish teams.

With all that said, if i'm picking a starting XI as a complete team, very few if any get a slot ahead of any of the 82/83 lot, sure some were more talented, but it's a sum of all the parts type thing.

Finn Seemann · 04/9/2024 8:51 am

For me the closest to the 82/83 team was the 86/87 team. I think they would have beaten the league winning side. Any team since would only beat them due to superior fitness and potentially better tactics that have come as football has developed and should the 82/83 have hypothetically benefitted from the same development they would have been better than all others bar the 86/87 team.

Shakey Isles Arab · 04/9/2024 9:47 am

No.

United Arab Emarite · 04/9/2024 10:37 am

Tommy McLean's first season 1996/97.
Our form was exceptional under him & I couldn't understand why Motherwell hadn't won the European Cup.
It was a great spell to be watching United, we were exciting.
Olofsson & Winters worked wonders together, Maurice was still there & Sieb was in the goal.
There was McKinnon, McInally, Pressley, McLaren and Erik Pedersen.
Sadly 97/98 was a fizzle out and early the next season he made way for Luggy.
The 1996/97 team is probably the 2nd best in my time.

motherwellarab · 04/9/2024 11:30 am

Tek wrote:
Just a wee poser to pass the boredom of International week.

If the 82/83 Utd side are perceived as our best ever. Is there another Utd side who could beat them in a one off Final?

And if so, who and why?

82-83 team obviously best united team but in a one off Cup final then yeah it's possible they could have been beaten by maybe by cup winning 2010 team, I would say 94 as well but won't include them as Malpas was in both 83 league winning team and 94 team

lifesanocean · 04/9/2024 12:48 pm

With equal levels of fitness, I'd say the 86/87 team could beat them, but if they played each other 10 times the 82/83 team would win 7/8 times out of 10.

The 09/10 team and the 96/97 team would maybe win 1/2 times out of 10.

The 94 team would get pumped every time as would Jackie's team.

Finn Seemann · 04/9/2024 1:20 pm

lifesanocean wrote:
With equal levels of fitness, I'd say the 86/87 team could beat them, but if they played each other 10 times the 82/83 team would win 7/8 times out of 10.

The 09/10 team and the 96/97 team would maybe win 1/2 times out of 10.

The 94 team would get pumped every time as would Jackie's team.

Probably agree with that, but the question was could any team beat them in a one off final. On the basis of that, you might be right on the 96/97 team. Don't think the 09/10 would lace their boots though...

redford_must_score · 04/9/2024 5:59 pm

Interesting debate. The Champions were a great side. But so was the next great side that McLean built. Went to the Nou Camp and won without fear.
An incredible result in Germany to knock Moenchengladbach out, these were two of the greatest away United performances I've witnessed. Gonna be controversial just for the hell of it
82/83 DUFC 2-2 86/87 DUFC (AET)
86/87 DUFC Win 7-6 on Pens

Tek · 04/9/2024 9:57 pm

As great as the 86/87 side was they bottled 2 Finals (3 if you include both legs of UEFA).

I think 'bottle' is a big part of winning Cup Finals.

So, based on that i actually would give the '94 team the best chance of beating them in a Final.

David_Blunkett · 04/9/2024 10:08 pm

That's where i'm at Tek.

Folk call losing finals etc 'Hibsing' it, they hardly ever got to finals, so 'Hibsing' should've been the name for being a bit shite.

For shitting your pants every time you seen an engraver, we'd need to call things 'Unitedy'

MockChop · 05/9/2024 12:46 pm

The 2010 team, on their day. I’d give them a chance.

Finn Seemann · 05/9/2024 2:26 pm

Tek wrote:
As great as the 86/87 side was they bottled 2 Finals (3 if you include both legs of UEFA).

I think 'bottle' is a big part of winning Cup Finals.

So, based on that i actually would give the '94 team the best chance of beating them in a Final.

Sorry, not having that!

Very few people who were at that game (and sober (not me)) gave us much chance before going into it. We had some really average players (excuse Mo and Sash) and for me only McKinlay and maybe, at a stretch Dave Bowman, could have improved the 82/83 team. The '94 team finished 6th in the league (and only two points safe from relegation) and needed replays to beat Motherwell, Airdrieonians and Aberdeen to get there - it was just a written in the stars event. They were genuinely a pretty average United team, although hard to beat (and never lost a game all season by more than 2 goals).

redford_must_score · 05/9/2024 2:48 pm

Finn Seemann wrote:
For me the closest to the 82/83 team was the 86/87 team. I think they would have beaten the league winning side. Any team since would only beat them due to superior fitness and potentially better tactics that have come as football has developed and should the 82/83 have hypothetically benefitted from the same development they would have been better than all others bar the 86/87 team.

Absolutely this.

redford_must_score · 05/9/2024 2:50 pm

Tek wrote:
As great as the 86/87 side was they bottled 2 Finals (3 if you include both legs of UEFA).

I think 'bottle' is a big part of winning Cup Finals.

So, based on that i actually would give the '94 team the best chance of beating them in a Final.

Bottle does play a part. But to say they bottled both legs of the UEFA Cup Final is bizarre.
Bet you wouldn't sit in a room with the players and say that.

Were you at the 2 games TEK?

David_Blunkett · 05/9/2024 3:57 pm

Bottled is probably harsh in terms of the Uefa cup, ridiculous bounce on a shitey pitch in the 1st leg, Thomson beaten too easily in the second which killed it, but If I remember correctly it was just a tired couple of performances at the end of a real slog of a season, Kirkie missed a great chance at 0-0.

Had we not been robbed of the winner v St Mirren, we turn over Gothenburg.

We definitely bottled cup finals though, mostly v Celtic.

redford_must_score · 05/9/2024 5:22 pm

David_Blunkett wrote:
Bottled is probably harsh in terms of the Uefa cup, ridiculous bounce on a shitey pitch in the 1st leg, Thomson beaten too easily in the second which killed it, but If I remember correctly it was just a tired couple of performances at the end of a real slog of a season, Kirkie missed a great chance at 0-0.

Had we not been robbed of the winner v St Mirren, we turn over Gothenburg.

We definitely bottled cup finals though, mostly v Celtic.

There was a rock concert in the Ullevi a few days before and it did affect the pitch but you could say it's the same for both teams.
As you say we just ran out of steam a bit after a very long season and IIRC they were just into theirs. But over the 2 legs they were maybe deserving.
Was there not some rammy with the SFA because they wouldn't reschedule any games to help us. They couldn't maybe rechedule the Scottish Cup final but I think it was about the week before the first leg? Could be wrong there.
The boys were out on their feet, gave every drop of blood just came up short. Bottle it they did not.
That side played some of the best counter attacking football I've seen from a United side in the Nou Camp and Moenchenglafbach away victories. They would definitely have given the 83 Champions a tough night. Win? Well i did say i was being controversial 😁

BMT · 05/9/2024 8:22 pm

Canadian Arab wrote:
MockChop wrote:
The 2010 team, on their day. I’d give them a chance.
Dušan Perniš   Hamish McAlpine
Andy Webster Derek Stark
Garry Kenneth   Maurice Malpas
Mihael Kovačević Richard Gough
Seán Dillon Paul Hegarty
Craig Conway Dave Narey
Danny Swanson Eamonn Bannon
Morgaro Gomis   Ralph Milne
Prince Buaben Billy Kirkwood
David Goodwillie   Paul Sturrock
Jon Daly Davie Dodds

The team that started the 2010 final vs the team that started the final game against the Dees.

The '83 boys would have the cigars out by 3.30pm!

Unless "on their day" was Sunday 15th May, 1983. With Luggy injured and on bridie duty, the 2010 lads might edge it.

When you compare the teams it’s like CA says there is no comparison. Can’t think of any player from 2010 I’d swap into the 83 team.

Shakey Isles Arab · 05/9/2024 9:51 pm

Left field one:
What about the two League Cup winning teams in the seasons prior to '83 ?

Essentially the foundation of the '83 team - cannae mind of the odd change in personnel, but you'd have had a 3 v 3 thriller

Tek · 05/9/2024 11:09 pm

Finn Seemann wrote:
Very few people who were at that game (and sober (not me)) gave us much chance before going into it. We had some really average players (excuse Mo and Sash) and for me only McKinlay and maybe, at a stretch Dave Bowman, could have improved the 82/83 team. The '94 team finished 6th in the league (and only two points safe from relegation) and needed replays to beat Motherwell, Airdrieonians and Aberdeen to get there - it was just a written in the stars event. They were genuinely a pretty average United team, although hard to beat (and never lost a game all season by more than 2 goals).

Whilst the '94 side had a poor league season i am surprised you cite them needing replays to beat Airdrie, Motherwell and Aberdeen as a negative. Surely that could also be seen as overcoming adversity?

The '94 team were a 'big game' team for me.

Won 0-3 at Ibrox
Won 1-0 vs Celtic at Tannadice
Drew both games at Parkhead
Won the replay at Fir Park

Played at Hampden 3 times in a month, drawing one and winning two. A stadium we hadn't won a big game at since 1974.

They actually played 7 games that season in Glasgow between 2 at Ibrox, 2 at Parkhead and 3 at Hampden and lost only one. And even that was a 2-1 defeat where we were denied the World's biggest stonewaller penalty ever.

They might not have been consistent or have been our best ever Utd side

BUT...

They had 'bottle' and a bit of swagger at times. Those are huge qualities in one-off Cup games.

MockChop · 05/9/2024 11:14 pm

Canadian Arab wrote:
MockChop wrote:
The 2010 team, on their day. I’d give them a chance.
Dušan Perniš   Hamish McAlpine
Andy Webster Derek Stark
Garry Kenneth   Maurice Malpas
Mihael Kovačević Richard Gough
Seán Dillon Paul Hegarty
Craig Conway Dave Narey
Danny Swanson Eamonn Bannon
Morgaro Gomis   Ralph Milne
Prince Buaben Billy Kirkwood
David Goodwillie   Paul Sturrock
Jon Daly Davie Dodds

The team that started the 2010 final vs the team that started the final game against the Dees.

The '83 boys would have the cigars out by 3.30pm!

Unless "on their day" was Sunday 15th May, 1983. With Luggy injured and on bridie duty, the 2010 lads might edge it.

I didn’t see the 83 team. Just before my time.

Anyway, was just an opinion, didn’t need to break out the Tale Of The Tape

Tek · 05/9/2024 11:16 pm

redford_must_score wrote:

Bottle does play a part. But to say they bottled both legs of the UEFA Cup Final is bizarre.
Bet you wouldn't sit in a room with the players and say that.

Were you at the 2 games TEK?

The only 'bizarre' thing is that response.

Not sure why people need to take these type of lighthearted threads to heart so much.

redford_must_score · 05/9/2024 11:39 pm

Tek wrote:
redford_must_score wrote:

Bottle does play a part. But to say they bottled both legs of the UEFA Cup Final is bizarre.
Bet you wouldn't sit in a room with the players and say that.

Were you at the 2 games TEK?
The only 'bizarre' thing is that response.

Too young? Something else? Please enlighten me.
Anyway, no chance they bottled these 2 games. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine which is that you're insulting all the players in that Final who gave everything they had to bring the trophy to Tannadice. Can you not just admit for once you were wrong?

MockChop · 05/9/2024 11:41 pm

It’s a hypothetical thread mate.

Tek · 05/9/2024 11:46 pm

redford_must_score wrote:

Can you not just admit for once you were wrong?

For an opinion?

No.