United Arab Emarite wrote:

You'll soon find out if any of them are any good.
They'll be off to Luton Town for a development fee before we even know the name.
Brandan Forbes anybody, think we got one game out of him back in August?

 
You do realise the Academy costs a fortune to run?

David_Blunkett wrote:

We can go round in circles on this again.

If the academy is that expensive to run, that we must sell any prospect at the first opportunity then why bother?

Of those that don't attract bids, how many make a significant amount of appearances or contributions? Ross Graham has been in and around our squad for years, but for me he's not a nailed on first XI player (yet)

Fotheringham did well enough in the championship, if our loanees aren't making significant waves in lower divisions, maybe the next waves, should be waves goodbye.

For every Gauld or Souttar, we picked up a Robertson, McKay-Steven or Armstrong from other teams, we got Swanson, Conway, Gomis for pennies.

I'd like to see a proper break down, how much it costs v how much it produces, how much of it is funded, do we have to do it, is it a requirement?

 

 
What's undeniable is that the ever changing Academy management post Campbell have failed to provide a stream of players equipped to make an impact at Premiership level.

Tek wrote:

redford_must_score wrote:

 
What's undeniable is that the ever changing Academy management post Campbell have failed to provide a stream of players equipped to make an impact at Premiership level.

But how can they if we keep selling them so early in their United careers?

Scott Banks, Harry Souttar, Kerr Smith and Brandon Forbes (to name just 4), would all have played a number of games for our first team had they not been sold.

It has to be a balancing act of course, we all get we are a selling club, and one still in significant debt.

But, it is hard to get enthused about the Academy (and United often are very self promotional and self congratulatory about our Academy) when we barely see some of these boys kick a ball at Tannadice.

As it is, most of us are already probably braced to see the likes of Scott Constable or Owen Stirton disappear in the Summer, which would be another bitter pill to swallow.
 

 
This probably deserves it's own thread but that's your call Tek.

Banks if I recall wanted away regardless of what the club could offer and I believe Forbes did too.
There was a rumoured falling out between the club and the Souttars parents I believe which definitely contributed to their departure. MacLeod couldn't make a first team impact even in the Championship.

So it's never been a case of calling the boys into the office and saying we've sold you to a club down south, thanks and cheerio.

Owen Stirton is a United fan (as is Ross Graham) so I would expect to see him staying longer.

For what it's worth I believe it's not the Academy system that's at fault it's the quality of coaches we've hired along with the type of player these coaches aim to produce, a conveyor belt of tippy tappy. But that's another debate altogether.

Last edited by redford_must_score (15/4/2025 11:07 pm)

dufc5 wrote:

Owen Stirton has signed a 2 year contract so it will take a very good offer for us to sell, he looks like he will be involved in the first team next season. Miller Thomson, Kai Fotheringham and Ross Graham all played a significant part on our promotion last season.

Clear-Harding and Ross Graham look the future at the back for us, it’s going to be really difficult for Dewar and Constable to break in.

Ultimately there’s not much you can do when young players heads have been turned with the riches of the clubs down south. The fees they can afford is pennies to them for young talent.

Our academy is doing just fine.

 
"Our Academy is doing just fine" .  That's your opinion and you state it as if you are the final arbiter. Unless you are Mark Ogren posting here you're not.

As it happens many many fans agree with Teks and Aright's opinion ie that we as fans don't get the benefit of seeing youngsters come through into the first team. It clearly matters to many fans because when preferred lineups have been posted pre match on most social media platforms players like Fotheringham and Miller Thompson get selected far more often than performances suggest they should be.

My beef with the Academy is that since Stevie Campbell we have had a series of career coaches who seem to recruit and turn out very very similar players. If you couldn't see their faces could you really tell the difference between Glass Mochrie Fotheringham and Thompson ?, (may have missed a couple there). One top class Central Defender in years?? No first team Premiership level midfielders? dufc5?

My assessment is simply that we should be doing better.

Last edited by redford_must_score (16/4/2025 12:37 am)

lifesanocean wrote:

Constable will most likely end up as a right back or a central midfielder so we could well see him in the first team.

My mate who watched the youths said that Charlie Dewar is the best player they've got so I would not rule him out yet.

I wish I could watch the youths.
In fact I wish the youths could watch the youths - they hardly ever play!
Was that one game your mate saw them?
Some of them must be worn out after a 12-game season.

P.S. On checking the website they don't play at all.
 

United Arab Emarite wrote:

lifesanocean wrote:

Constable will most likely end up as a right back or a central midfielder so we could well see him in the first team.

My mate who watched the youths said that Charlie Dewar is the best player they've got so I would not rule him out yet.

I wish I could watch the youths.
In fact I wish the youths could watch the youths - they hardly ever play!
Was that one game your mate saw them?
Some of them must be worn out after a 12-game season.

P.S. On checking the website they don't play at all.
 

No, he goes to all the home games and some away games as well, he has a family member in the u18s.
 

Finn Seemann wrote:

It would be daft to think that the Academy doesn't need to improve.  Facts are facts and we are not producing the players for our first team that we need. 

I've cut your comments here though I could have done something similar with others (so nothing personal). Agree 100% the Academy can improve, it should always be looking to do so. I'm not sure what people are expecting from the players though. They're in the academy till they're 18, are people expecting them to be in the frame for the first team squad then? It certainly sounds like it from some of the posts.

This is these guy's work too, it's just like contracting. Mostly they're only on 1 or 2 year contracts. If they get a better offer there's a fair chance they might take it, its a 2 way street.

If they stay at Utd there needs to be an expectation these guys will go out on loan to get experience, like Sam did, to put them in a better position to compete for the first team squad. Most of the younger players mentioned before have got decent loans which seem to be working well (although I'd query Adams being a younger player the way that was set out) so they can only benefit from that. The club also need to anticipate how they might develop if they're going to dish out longer contracts.

When players are brought in in their mid 20's and expected to perform from the off there will always be a struggle for less experienced guy's in their late teens to get in front of them. 




 

lifesanocean wrote:

United Arab Emarite wrote:

lifesanocean wrote:

Constable will most likely end up as a right back or a central midfielder so we could well see him in the first team.

My mate who watched the youths said that Charlie Dewar is the best player they've got so I would not rule him out yet.

I wish I could watch the youths.
In fact I wish the youths could watch the youths - they hardly ever play!
Was that one game your mate saw them?
Some of them must be worn out after a 12-game season.

P.S. On checking the website they don't play at all.
 

No, he goes to all the home games and some away games as well, he has a family member in the u18s.
 

I appreciate if you had a relative playing you would try to watch as many games as possible, irrespective of day & time.
Outwith the first team I haven't seen a single 'other' game this season but it's not for the want of trying. I can't get to St Andrews on a Tuesday afternoon.
It gets very little coverage too, I can't see much at all on the official website. There are certainly no squad details whatsover tho I don't think our website wins many prizes.

 

Macho Man wrote:

I don't think the Academy is failing of its own accord.  I think the issue is that there is no structure in place to support players of a certain age that are too old for the youth teams but just not quite ready for first team football.

We need a reserve league in Scottish football for these players to have a platform to play and improve in.  Not only will that benefit the younger players coming through the ranks, it will also be a benefit for players returning from injury and for players who are on the bench and cant get a start due to the performance levels of the starting 11.

True and agreed