Tekel Towers » New Stadium

SlatefordArab · 22/8/2017 2:15 pm

Seen some chat on other forums regarding United sharing the Fun''s proposed new stadium at Campy.

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

Parts of Tannadice are certainly very dated now, however that new proposed new stadium that they are on about building would be shite IMO. Great facilities yes but it's location would be so shite - no walking up to the ground from a boozer etc.

Will it ever get off the ground anyway? Surely there would need to be a serious change in the road layout on the Kingsway to allow for the traffic? That's not to mention how it would be funded. No change out of £20 million surely?

Had me thinking about the last proposed shard stadium at Cairdy for Euro 2008 - was going to be a 30,000 seater!

http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s35/st3026.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2535419.stm

"It would be the first and only stadium in Scotland with a retractable roof and would also be home to the Scottish Claymores American Football Team."

Last edited by SlatefordArab (22/8/2017 2:19 pm)

BennyBoy · 22/8/2017 3:38 pm

I assume that the Dees new stadium won't be owned by Dundee FC as such, it would be an independent company running it.

But, would it be decked out in dark blue colours with the Dundee FC crest everywhere and called something like 'The Samba Dome'? Or would it be just a neutral, soulless Lego set, perhaps with video walls flashing up the colours and crest of whomever is playing there that day?

Either way, it's bad. Do we Arabs really want to be playing our 'home' games in a dark blue themed stadium with Dundee FC imagery everywhere? - Merely tenants, the poor relations. Can't see it.

So let's say it's the neutrally coloured facility, soulless, barren, glum. A good way to strip a club of its culture and identity would be to move into a place like I've described. And then a few years down the line when folk are far less guarded about heritage, it'll be, "Well, we already both play at the same location, it makes financial sense to amalgamate."

Folk are saying that if ground sharing is good enough for such and such then it's good enough for us. I'd perhaps have agreed but here's the thing: Jim Spence was obviously asked to try and create a case for a merger a few months back. It was obvious that his intention was to whip up debate so that the waters could be tested. I think a ground share would lead to amalgamation.

There's also the argument that a ground share would free up more money. Perhaps it would, but that money would go on debt, not the squad. And even when we did end up paying the debt off, the saved cash would just be £X less for the Board to have to source, it would save the Directors money, not United as such. So in a nutshell, I don't think a ground share would improve our squad either.

I say we forget what The Fun are doing and focus on ourselves and continue to be self sufficient. In the meantime, a lick of tangerine paint on the reception roof would smarten the place up a bit.

WeeDude_83 · 22/8/2017 3:47 pm

See, It probably makes sense on the face of it.
Upkeep of 2 old grounds will be high.

Tannadice is in need of work, I have it on good authority that the club are in bother regarding health & safety in certain areas from the fire service and are on their final warning.

I'd never be OK with renting from them though. That's too close to being in the hands of the yanks for me. One step closer to becoming the Dundee Dynamo Soccerball Club lol.

Another problem I have with these new stadia is how soul-less they become. Multi purpose concrete soul less venues as opposed to football grounds.
Not that Tannadice is an atmospheric ground these days but when its in full swing there are only a couple of grounds in Scotland that are better.

Rocky Raccoon · 22/8/2017 4:14 pm

I won't be watching United playing home games in a ground that isn't Tannadice.

That's a confident statement but I've as much chance of seeing United play Man U in the Champions League final as Dundee building that stadium at Campy.

SlatefordArab · 22/8/2017 4:34 pm

That's the thing - surely the FUN are going to be tenants of the council and not actually own the stadium, so what the fuck is their owner on about - "United can come on board as our tenants if they want".

Aye OK then, mind and give us a shot of the mono-rail too eh ya belter!

Last edited by SlatefordArab (22/8/2017 4:34 pm)

Downfield Arab · 22/8/2017 4:58 pm

Slateford the ground has been bought by a group called Dark Blue Holdings. Its this group who intend to finance the building of the new stadium. Nelms is part of Dark Blue Holdings. Nothing to do with Dundee Council. Once built The Fun will pay rental to Dark Blue Holdings for the use of the stadium and if DUFC were to be daft enough to except then DUFC would also pay rental to Dark Blue Holdings. In other words Dark Blue Holding would have us by the balls for ever more.

Billy_Hainey · 22/8/2017 5:12 pm

Agree with much of what Downfield_Arab says. Where the phuck are they gettin £20M fae? Takin oot a loan. Admin 3?

We already own a stadium rent-free which can house nearly 15k folk or as near as damn it, why pay rent to a landlord.

We would be paying rent to the owners of Done-dee forever, and funding they chunts. No phuckin danger.

It's a definite NO fir me.

lifesanocean · 22/8/2017 5:36 pm

I'd have went to the shared stadium at Caird Park back in 2008 but fuck being their tennants at the Campydome.

Give Tannadice a facelift and build a new stand to replace the Shed.

Tek · 22/8/2017 5:44 pm

Downfield Arab wrote:
Slateford the ground has been bought by a group called Dark Blue Holdings. Its this group who intend to finance the building of the new stadium. Nelms is part of Dark Blue Holdings. Nothing to do with Dundee Council. Once built The Fun will pay rental to Dark Blue Holdings for the use of the stadium and if DUFC were to be daft enough to except then DUFC would also pay rental to Dark Blue Holdings. In other words Dark Blue Holding would have us by the balls for ever more.

Not disputing what you're saying DA (Welcome to TT btw) but why then did Nelms say Dundee Council asked him if he would consider letting Utd play at the new Stadium?

There must be a tie-up with Dundee City Council in some shape or form.

Billy_Hainey · 22/8/2017 5:56 pm

WTF are they gonna call it anyhow. The Stadium of Sh1te.

Tek · 22/8/2017 5:57 pm

It's rather laughable incidentally that this stadium is earmarked to have a 15,000 capacity.

They have what?3,000 season ticket holders?

This stadium would lie 3 quarters empty almost every single home game.

Just a coincedence that our capacity is 14,209 though I'm sure.

blackandtangerine · 22/8/2017 6:29 pm

Tek wrote:
It's rather laughable incidentally that this stadium is earmarked to have a 15,000 capacity.

They have what?3,000 season ticket holders?

This stadium would lie 3 quarters empty almost every single home game.

Just a coincedence that our capacity is 14,209 though I'm sure.

Tbf IF it did go ahead youd get an increase in their crowds for a while. New stadium factor, and im sure away supports would increase as well. Once that settles down itll look as daft as tannadice does now with 6 thousand crowds spread over 3 stands.

PatReilly · 22/8/2017 7:11 pm

Tek wrote:
Downfield Arab wrote:
Slateford the ground has been bought by a group called Dark Blue Holdings. Its this group who intend to finance the building of the new stadium. Nelms is part of Dark Blue Holdings. Nothing to do with Dundee Council. Once built The Fun will pay rental to Dark Blue Holdings for the use of the stadium and if DUFC were to be daft enough to except then DUFC would also pay rental to Dark Blue Holdings. In other words Dark Blue Holding would have us by the balls for ever more.
Not disputing what you're saying DA (Welcome to TT btw) but why then did Nelms say Dundee Council asked him if he would consider letting Utd play at the new Stadium?

There must be a tie-up with Dundee City Council in some shape or form.

Dark Blue (Holdings) would not be holding us, but Dundee, by the balls. They are actually very cheekily named in that regard! Nelms can sell on his shares in the club but still gain the rent, in the same way Bennett does right now. All of this, of course, if it happens, which I doubt it will.

The council would ask about the potential to ground share (in reality for United to be tenants as well, for this isn't a new ground for DFC, it's a new ground for DB(H)), simply as part of the process for granting planning permission. They would ask as they would wish to be even handed to the two city clubs in their dealing with a prospective new landlord.

Last edited by PatReilly (22/8/2017 7:12 pm)

TheShed · 22/8/2017 7:18 pm

There's definitely a testing of the water going on, somebody somewhere wants a merger sometime down the line. They can fuck right off.

PatReilly · 22/8/2017 7:19 pm

Further:

the company set up by Nelms isn't Dark Blue (Holdings), it's Dark Blue Property Holdings.

DB(H) is owned by a couple from Richmond Yorkshire.

DBPH has assets of £2 according to their most recently published accounts.

tangerine terror · 22/8/2017 7:52 pm

Tannadice needs a new sound system, the music the blast out sounds terrible.

Tangerine'n'Black · 22/8/2017 8:11 pm

PatReilly wrote:
Further:

the company set up by Nelms isn't Dark Blue (Holdings), it's Dark Blue Property Holdings.

DB(H) is owned by a couple from Richmond Yorkshire.

DBPH has assets of £2 according to their most recently published accounts.

Exactly, link

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC507045

A separate company is "planning" a speculative development using American investment monies and will seek to maximise revenue for the new soccer bowl ( and any other sport or occasion ).

Outlay perhaps to tune of say £20m +

Dee FC are just a revenue stream for them and in the same way our American new friends would see DUFC exactly same.

No facts to back up suggestion that it would be cheaper for our club to maintain current facilities than to rent a new facility ( which also has to be maintained by way) but thinking it should be.

Are the rent free DFC to remain rent free, can't see it as investors shall be hooked in on what their returns will be from income. Can DFC fund a substantial rent instead of their current circumstance as well? Perhaps not also.

No idea what a match day rental would be but say for sake of counting £25k ( for 3000 or 6000 punters to pay in), 20 home games for two teams, a round £1m. Long long time for an investment return coming back once real costs are factored in.

Figures are perhaps much different from that calc but....

Hike in gate costs would kill football in the town which is already too expensive.

New modern stadiums have been built all round the country and to be financially viable capacity is tailored to suit the expected regular bums on seats. A 15000 seater stadium is expecting major away supports travelling which cannot be guaranteed, not for us at moment as our own gates confirm. Other than the support for the big two not going to be capacity for Dees either.

They would need regular alternative revenue sources to make such an investment viable over a long period - what are their options ? Greyhounds? Athletics? Other sports?

Not seeing any obvious options that are going to generate big income ........maybe parking charges while you wait in the big queue trying to get your car out onto the Kingsway? .

Not sure where this is all heading but maybe slightly concerned our Chairman or board see an out somehow.

If we leave Tannadice for the Rental market could be well screwed in future as will be pay the rent required or don't play at all then.

Need to stay where we are .....let the Dees do what they like.

Billy_Hainey · 22/8/2017 8:28 pm

From the info in Companies House, the registered address (11 Dudhope Terrace) for DBPH seems to be Findlay and Co. accountants, just across fae Dudhope Park.

Tangerine'n'Black · 22/8/2017 8:37 pm

They'll be kept busy with those accounts

22/8/2017 9:25 pm

Just can't see how it'll work financially for them - like most football clubs they're loss making, so where's the return that pays for the stadium?

Planning consent is one thing, funding another - honestly don't see this happening.

Leedsy2 · 22/8/2017 9:43 pm

tangerine terror wrote:
Tannadice needs a new sound system, the music the blast out sounds terrible.

And even a small visiting crowd sounds louder than us..... fucking hate that! Relocate the mikes, ffs!

Arabnophobia · 22/8/2017 10:02 pm

The yanks now have a better idea of what their investment brings them. They are also looking at saving face and their doodle dandies hoping they can make money over loosing it through property development and profits from concerts & rental.

Claiming the council have asked them if we could share their dark bue seated arena is just a cheeky attempt at looking big and turning the tables.

They can fuck right off!

Tek · 22/8/2017 11:28 pm

Going back to my post.

What exactly is Dundee City Councils involvement in any new stadia?

Are they mooted to be part funding it?

Must be imo if they want Utd using it too to maximise revenue streams from it.

I don't like the sounds of all this btw.

Tek · 22/8/2017 11:54 pm

The whole affair is convuluted further when you remember that Dundee and Nelms don't actually own Dens Park.

John Bennett does.

So any potential funding of any new Stadia would have to be funded outwith the sale of Dens.

I can't see how they could possibly fund it without the financial support of both United and DCC.

My worry is that Thompson see's the potential sale of Tannadice as his only 'out'.His only way to pay off the debts and (more importantly) recoup some of his inheritance that he seems to think him and Justine are due.They will never afterall sell their shares for what they seem to think they're worth.

Now Tesco,Sainsbury's or Morrisons probably wouldn't consider buying Dens and building there as the land is too small to build a supermarket and adjacent car park.

If the land to both Dens and Tannadice are sold however...

I can't help but feeling (as Bennison alluded too above) that something's been 'brewing' behind the scenes for awhile.

But then again maybe I'm jumping the gun.

Still, would be nice for Utd to come out and dismiss this 'offer' out of hand and reassure the support our future lies at Tannadice regardless of where Dundee FC play.

Leedsy2 · 23/8/2017 12:23 am

Tek wrote:
The whole affair is convuluted further when you remember that Dundee and Nelms don't actually own Dens Park.

John Bennett does.

So any potential funding of any new Stadia would have to be funded outwith the sale of Dens.

I can't see how they could possibly fund it without the financial support of both United and DCC.

My worry is that Thompson see's the potential sale of Tannadice as his only 'out'.His only way to pay off the debts and (more importantly) recoup some of his inheritance that he seems to think him and Justine are due.They will never afterall sell their shares for what they seem to think they're worth.

Now Tesco,Sainsbury's or Morrisons probably wouldn't consider buying Dens and building there as the land is too small to build a supermarket and adjacent car park.

If the land to both Dens and Tannadice are sold however...

I can't help but feeling (as Bennison alluded too above) that something's been 'brewing' behind the scenes for awhile.

But then again maybe I'm jumping the gun.

Still, would be nice for Utd to come out and dismiss this 'offer' out of hand and reassure the support our future lies at Tannadice regardless of where Dundee FC play.

It looks to me like the Dirty Tricks Department is somewhat surreptitiously dipping a toe in the water.