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15/7/2019 12:59 pm  #1951


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Meat Puppets II: will listen again, but unsure if I liked it.

Congratulations on the 200,000 views A/C!

 

19/7/2019 10:10 am  #1952


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 534.
Sade..............................Diamond Life   (1984)










It's appeal cut through class, culture, race, age and sex. With Diamond Life, it became acceptable for a man to buy a romantic album for reasons other than ti impress a woman. The key that unlocked those doors was Sade's voice. The 25 year-old Nigerian-born singer's mesmerising mix of smoky blues, steely jazz, and sterling pop simply sounded like no one else.


The album would be an immediate hit in the UK, and it's 1985 release in the United States garnered similar results. Diamond Life would eventually shift six million copies and become the bestselling debut by any British female-vocalist in history.  (Don't know if that still stands?)


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

31/7/2019 8:56 am  #1953


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Hello lads, sorry I haven't been on for a bit, but had a wee health issue that needed looked at (nothing sinister) but seemingly should have went to see about earlier, but you know what it's like, things to do, and ach I'll go next week, so hopefully get back at it tonight, with FGTH.


Arabest


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

31/7/2019 11:26 pm  #1954


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 532.
Frankie Goes To Hollywood........................Welcome To The Pleasuredome   (1984)












So, Frankie Goes To Hollywoods album Welcome To The Pleasuredome, initial thoughts on hearing it Relax, Two Tribes and The Power Of Love ( a superb Xmas number) were still as good some 35 years after my first treat of listening with fresh ears, I also liked the title track, but not the album version, which depending on which download you listen to, ranges from a decent 5 minute track going out to a 32 minute version of how many times can you go oo-ha welcome to the pleasuredome or Shooting stars never stop or In Xanadu did Kubla Khan, before it gets pretty staid, mind yer sitting in yer hoose listening to this, it's no gonna happen is it, even if you try play at a perty I guarantee you wont get past 6 minutes before people start shouting "sack the DJ"


Talking aboot Kubla Khan, it's obviously from the excellent poem by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, here's a little bit about it I found QI;



Coleridge composed his poem, Kubla Khan is a state of semi-conscious trance either in the autumn of 1797 or spring of 1798 and published in 1816. The whole poem is pervaded by an atmosphere of dream and remains in the form of a vision. The vision embodied in Kubla Khan was inspired by the perusal of the travel book, Purchas His Pilgrimage. Coleridge had taken a doze of opium as an anodyne, and his eyes closed upon the line in the book, “At Zanadu Kubla Khan built a pleasure palace.” But this opened his creative vision, and the poem of about 200 lines was composed in this state of waking dream. On being fully awake, he wrote the poem down. The theme of the poem is unimportant. It describes the palace built by Kubla Khan, the grandson of Chengis Khan, the great rule of central Asia.


Now for the most interesting bit (for me at least)


Kubla Khan was no' bad, but he was fuck all compared to his grandpappy Genghis.................he was the daddy!


Warlord Khan has 16m male relatives alive now, says study


One in every 200 men alive today is a relative of Genghis Khan. An international team of geneticists has made the astonishing discovery that more than 16 million men in central Asia have the same male Y chromosome as the great Mongol leader.It is a striking finding: a huge chunk of modern humanity can trace its origins to Khan's vigorous policy of claiming the most beautiful women captured during his merciless conquest.

 'One thirteenth century Persian historian claimed that within a century of Khan's birth, his enthusiastic mating habits had created a lineage of more than 20,000 individuals,' said team leader Dr Chris Tyler-Smith. 'That now appears to account for around 8% of the men in central Asia.'


The answer was consistent with the march of Khan, who lived between 1162 and 1227, He had many wives, and was enthusiastic in his attentions to other women.

 When Mongol armies attacked, their spoils were shared among the troops and officers, with one exception. The most beautiful women were reserved for Khan...................Top Shagger.



Anyways, back to the album, a double album for no reason I can think of, unless financial, as it was full of fillers that had been zealously over-produced by Trevor Horn, with one of the worst versions of "War" I've ever heard along with a lot of third rate cover versions.



This might have made a half decent album, and one I may have bought , but as a double it's like a packet of crisps these days, the essentials (the crisps/the singles) are tasty, but they seem to be in too big a bag that's full of air (the pish Phyllis Dillers)  that once removed leaves you with a bag half the size.



Anyways,I have the ones I like on various artists CDs, and the rest was pretty gash in my humbles so this album wont be going into my collection.





Bits & Bobs;



Outrage has always played a massive and underrated role in the marketing of rock and roll music. How else could visually an overweight red neck dressed in a dinner jacket have shocked a nation with a song that simply suggested dancing the night away.Bill Haley


 How else could a bunch of scruffy kids in love with playing Rhythm and Blues, but incapable of writing their own material, have metamorphosed into that mid-sixties nightmare of all respectable parents, the Rolling Stones?

 Or what a bout that bunch of yobs whose clothes were all held together by safety pins, who had short spiky hair rather than that trendy long stuff? They went on telly, were being asked perfectly sensible questions by that nice Bill Grundy and they replied using rude four letter words beginning with F. Remember the Sex Pistols?

 It happened again in 1984. In January, the perfect month to confirm paranoids that there was still a chance for Orwell to be right after all.

  There was this jolly ordinary pop song Relax cruising it’s way up the charts (Actually it was not that ordinary, but more of that later). Then one Wednesday morning Radio One disc jockey Mike Read decreed that the said Relax had absolutely the opposite effect on him, that it was disgusting and all about sex. (Pop music, of course, has never been about sex!)Decreeing that this filthy record would never be heard again on his radio show, Read hurtled it across the studio, where presumably it shattered into two million pieces. Breakfast in thousands of households was momentarily interrupted before the population got back to ordinary life and went off to work or school.

 And that’s where it should all have ended. Read would have been forgiven his tantrum and Frankie Goes To Hollywood might still have gone to Number One. For to give Relax full credit, it is a totally brilliant dance record, coupling a stirring chorus with a rippling rhythm that drags weary feet war whooping across the floor. It is not so much a record about everyday boy-meets-girl, they kiss-and-cuddle-a-bit sex, but about a nuclear session between the sheets. Exhilarating, but exhausting.

  The problem was that the two singers admitted that they were homosexuals. They were also signed to a brand new record label owned by their producer Trevor Horn, Zang Tuum Tuub (reputedly that is the sound made when you thump a drum). And ZTT’s marketing was in the hands of the fiendish Paul Morley.
Readers of The New Musical Express know of Morley as a fairly vicious, intense, Mancunian writer, suffering from a love-hate relationship with the music business.


Morley had come out of punk and he was determined to recreate, artificially if necessary, the outrage of that era. Frankie Goes To Hollywood were the perfect vehicle, ready made to clone into OUTRAGE. Relax’s sleeve is deliberately sexually ambiguous. The first 12 inch mix was provocatively called a “Sex Mix”, the sleeve notes threatened and tantalised. But the coup de grâce can be found in one corner of the seven inch single sleeve.

 Printing lyrics is not an original ploy, but here for children of all ages to see were the immortal lines: “Relax don’t do it when you want to suck it to it, relax don’t do it when you want to come.”


 The suggestion of fellatio was too much for the BBC. Most of the bosses went to public school, so to their minds the implication was obvious. The song was all about two men having sex together.

 So Read’s ban metamorphosed into a fullscale corporation wipe out. It was slightly embarassing that Radio One had played Relax some 90 times previously and that Frankie had done one Top Of The Pops already. The controversy caused by the ban, fuelled by Fleet Street (which for once did not agree with the Beeb and don its role as moral arbiter of the country), shot the record to the top of the charts.
 “The whole Relax thing was ridiculous,” says second singer Paul Rutherford, “I do not condone what Mike Read did censoring it. He does not have the right. Maybe he thinks he does, sitting there with his headphones on.


 “We hold no malice towards him. If anything we can thank him for making it a more important record than it was. But I’m not going to.”


 It was poetic justice that Read was the DJ with the honour of introducing Frankie on Top Of The Pops the week their second single Two Tribes began its chart career at the very top.

 Meanwhile, Relax had started to go up the charts again, attaining a life and behaviour pattern unique even in the rock world.

 At the very moment when Frankie Goes To Hollywood should have been heard in every home in the land 12 times a day ad nauseam, there was nothing. Just silence. Everyone wanted to hear Frankie, to see Frankie, to touch Frankie and they were not allowed to. The record buying public is like a child: what it cannot have, it must have.

 After releasing just two singles, Frankie Goes To Hollywood have become one of the country’s major rock bands. And still no one knows much about them. Except, perhaps, that they are all from Liverpool and are intent on breaking one of that city’s fabled pop records. Only Gerry and the Pacemakers had Number Ones with all their first three releases.

 William “Holly” Johnson was born in 1960 in Wavertree, not far from Penny Lane. (In the early days he used to claim to being born in Khartoum in the Sudan). His father worked first as a seaman, then as an insurance salesman, then as a building worker.

 Liverpool has—because of the docks always enjoyed a more carefree night life, been more open to the bizarre and the foreign, but as a teenager young William still managed to shock the neighbourhood.

 “I used to shave me head and paint it red and green. People wrote to the Liverpool Echo saying ‘Who’s this Martian walking around town?”


 Hanging out in a club for “15-year-old weirdos” he bumped into Paul Rutherford (born 1959 in Liverpool; with a merchant seaman father). They have been friends ever since.

 “Decadence was the key word then. We were all into a bisexual scene. The name Holly was given to me by a girl called Yvonne Petrovitch, because of the Andy Warhol connection with the transvestite Holly Woodlawn.”


 Holly’s first musical gig was in local outfit Big In Japan, playing guitar behind singer Jayne Casey. At the time Paul Rutherford was sharing a flat with Pete Burns, the singer in Dead Or Alive.

 “We started off as local weirdos getting into fights and ended up as landmarks.



We used to congregate at Eric’s.”

 Eric’s, built on the site where the Cavern Club had once housed lunchtime gigs from the Beatles, was the seminal Liverpool club. It was there that Echo and the Bunnymen, Julian Cope (Teardrop Explodes), Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark, Wah and other bands with silly names and interesting ideas, congregated and began to expand.

 They will probably try to deny it, but the three musicians in Frankie were too young to really become part of the Eric’s scene. They were still at school—or not, as the case may be.

 Peter Gill—better known as Ped—was born in 1964, near the Aintree racecourse. He was given a drum kit for his 16th birthday, eight months later he formed Dancing Girl with guitarist Brian ‘Nasher’ Nash (born in May 1963) and bass man Mark O’Toole (born January ‘64), Nasher’s cousin.

 By their own admission it was not an earth shattering outfit. Ped left and picked up with Holly in Sons Of Egypt. Searching for a guitarist, they were joined by Mark’s brother Jed—who later quit because he had a wife, a kid, a job and a house. It became Frankie Goes To Hollywood.

 Holly pinched the name from a poster he once saw advertising a Frank Sinatra tour. From the outset the intention was to be different.

 “I had just seen Annabella Lwin from Bow Wow Wow,” says Holly, “It was pure sex on legs. I thought we might be able to cause some similar reaction. Our idea was to seduce everyone into a life of pure pleasure.”


 Even without the added Morley touch, the early Frankie shows were outrageous. Originally they had a girl singer and a couple of Leather Pettes clad in black and chained to pillars. Paul—back from a sojourn in London—saw a gig one night. It excited him so much he leapt up on the stage and has stayed there ever since.

 Early videos of the band have Paul wearing a pair of backless leather chaps, and a black leather peaked cap. It was aggressively macho and obviously gay. Even then Frankie had the aura of the Sex Pistols. They were dangerous.

 It was Channel Four’s Newcastle based rock show that provided the next piece of the jigsaw. Unsigned, with record companies sniffing around them, but basically incapable of marketing the heavy sexual image, Frankie wowed the TV audience on The Tube. They also impressed Paul Morley. He convinced Trevor Horn, who had simultaneously heard a Frankie demo on Richard Skinner’s Radio One show.

 Trevor Horn is a shy bespectacled chap, who is now regarded as the most exhilarating record producer in the known universe. Beginning his career as singer in Buggles—remember the insidious, Video Killed The Radio Star?—he graduated into an incarnation of the ponderous seventies supergroup Yes, before finding his real niche behind the control board. Productions for ABC (Lexicon Of Love), Dollar, Yes (he even gave them a US Number One with Owner Of A Lonely Heart) and Malcolm McLaren’s series of ethnic musical guerilla raids (Duck Rock), have resulted in a full cheque book, critical acclaim and Frankie Goes To Hollywood.

 Speculation about whether Frankie can survive without Trevor’s over the top, Armageddon approach to production or Morley’s blatant media manipulation are currently irrelevant. Two Tribes is not as great a song as Relax, but the finished product is far more powerful.

 It may be noised about as the “first genuine protest song of the eighties”—a totally ridiculous assumption—but it is a straightforward indictment of superpower politics. Holly did write it during the Falklands War and the accompanying video is quite simply chilling.

 The sight of Reagan and Chernenko gouging, pummeling, kneeing each other in the groin and biting each other’s ear is very brutal, but it is not mindless. The globe exploding at the end is a cliché, but it works. It might even be considered educational.

 There is a limit to the amount of hype even Paul Morley can inflict on a gullible public. Two Tribes took three months to make and their debut album has to come out this autumn. Welcome To The Pleasure Dome—its title tantalisingly gay, but actually lifted from Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s opium inspired epic poem—will prove whether all Frankie’s songs (lyrics by Holly, music by Mark and Ped) can live to their early promise. Then will come the second test, the concert stage.

 Live Frankie are fundamentally a guitar, bass and drums trio. They will have to stand alone, without the Trevor Horn mega-mix, without the videos. But they are not worried unduly.

 “We want to create an aura of controversy,” says Mark O’Toole, “Because we set out to do something different.


 “We are at the top and we aim to stay there. Just look at that poof in a dress and make up, Boy George; he’s dying now. Spandau Ballet have been doing the same thing for the last three years, soppy ballads.


 “Duran Duran might survive on being musicians, but not because they’re pretty faces. And don’t mention Wham! in the same breath as us.”


 Dismissing the opposition with words is easy enough. But the five Frankies have surrounded themselves with that liverpudlian scally (slang for scalliwag) arrogance that once characterised the Fab Four. They have coupled that with the breath of scandal that catapulted the Stones into prominence.

 Back in the sixties no one wanted their daughter to marry a Stone. In the’ eighties they probably wouldn’t mind their daughter sleeping with a Frankie. But as for their son… “Lock up your sons and daughters. Frankie is coming to town,”

  Holly used to say in his early interviews, unaware of the fascination the heterosexual has for the homosexual lifestyle. “You should see some of the pictures we’ve had taken. We’re going to have to buy back all the negatives.” Holly and Paul have learnt their lesson now.

 “At the beginning Holly and I were very honest and totally naïve,” admits Paul. “I’m glad I’m gay, I’m glad I came clean about it, but we’re not waving any banners. Frankie only waves the banner of having fun.

 “With Relax we showed how obssessed and prejudiced people are about sex. Anyone accusing us of perpetrating the gay stereotype is talking through their arse.


 “I’m bored with it. There are a million and one faggots you can interview about being gay.


 “We are entertainers. For want of a better word.”


 Holly has one: “My favourite thing is singing. Singing is better than sex.”



"Relax"


 
Written by the group's lead singer Holly Johnson, bassist Mark O'Toole and drummer Peter Gill, "Relax" was the first Frankie Goes to Hollywood single, and by far their biggest American hit



The basic idea of "relax, don't do it" came to Johnson one day in winter 1982 when he was late for rehearsals "walking very quickly along the central reservation of Princes Avenue in Toxteth." At that point, the band only consisted of Johnson, O'Toole and Gill.


 
The lyrics are relatively ambiguous, although the line "When you want to come" is clearly a reference to orgasm. The song is essentially a guide to delaying ejaculation.


To throw censors off the scent, when "Relax" first came out the band claimed publicly that it was written about "motivation." Later they confessed it was actually about "shagging."


 
In America, any sexual innuendo contained in this song got little attention, but it caused plenty of controversy in England. On January 11, 1984, BBC Radio 1 DJ Mike Read announced on air that he refused to air "Relax" because of the single's controversial artwork and lyrics. Read was unaware of it at the time, but Radio 1 was already planning to ban the single, and did so shortly afterward. However, the ban was only temporary. A parody of Read's on-air rant was included on some of the releases of the band's third single "The Power Of Love."



The song had already reached #6 on the UK singles chart before the rant and ensuing kerfuffle, which helped propel the song to the top spot (commercial radio stations in the UK played the song more after the ban, boasting that they were playing "the song that BBC banned"). An appearance on the television show Top Of The Pops had moved the song up to #6 from its previous position of #35.



The BBC lifted its ban at the end of 1984 to allow the band to perform the song on the Christmas edition of Top of the Pops.


 
Originally when questioned on the matter, the press was told that the line that sounds something like "When you want to suck to it" was really "When you want to sock it to it." Later, once the song was successful, Holly Johnson confessed the line is "When you wanna suck it, chew it."


 
In 1984, "Relax" initially spent 48 weeks on the UK Singles Chart with five of those weeks
consecutively in the #1 spot. When the band's second single, "Two Tribes," was released in the summer of 1984, that song climbed to #1 while simultaneously "Relax" rose back up to #2. This was a feat only previously accomplished by Elvis Presley, The Beatles and John Lennon.



After 48 weeks, "Relax" fell off of the chart, but re-appeared soon after for four more weeks, giving it a total of 52 weeks on the chart.


 
Three music videos were made for this song. The first depicted the band in a Roman Empire bondage fantasy featuring simulated sodomy, Paul Rutherford's bare bottom and a group of bondage fetishists chained to scaffolding. It was banned by both MTV and the BBC.

The second video, shown primarily in the UK, featured the band (pretending to) perform the song while standing in front of green laserlight.



The third video, shown primarily in the US, featured the band in a live performance setting (performing along to the studio track) while being kissed and hugged by adoring concertgoers.


 
This was produced by Trevor Horn, a former member of the bands Yes, The Buggles and Art Of Noise. When this song hit #1 in the UK the week of January 28, 1984, "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" by Yes was at #1 in the United States. Horn produced that song as well, making him the only producer to score simultaneous #1s in the UK and US with songs by different artists. Other acts Horn produced include ABC, Godley & Creme, Paul McCartney, Seal, Simple Minds, Lisa Stansfield, Rod Stewart and Tatu.


 
When "Relax" was first released in the US in the spring of 1984, it peaked at #67 on the Billboard Hot 100. The band came to America in October 1984, already with three UK singles to their credit. They pushed the song "Two Tribes," performing it on Saturday Night Live in November, but couldn't come anywhere near their homeland success; that song stalled at #43.



The group fared better in early 1985 when a re-released "Relax" got attention on radio and MTV, climbing to #10 in March. In America, it is by far their most popular song.


 
The release of "Relax" was promoted by a variety of widely distributed T-shirts bearing the legendary "Frankie Say..." quotes, such as "Frankie Say RELAX Don't Do It."



This shirt gets a cameo in a season 3 episode of the TV series Friends during a scene where Ross (David Schwimmer) is taking back his stuff from Rachel (Jennifer Aniston) after the breakup. Knowing she likes to sleep in the shirt, he asks for it back, even though it hasn't fit him since was 15. He puts on the way-too-tight T-shirt and declares, "I'm going to take the rest of my stuff and relax in my favorite shirt." He later returns the shirt in a sign of reconciliation.


 
Trevor Horn discovered Frankie Goes To Hollywood shortly after creating his record company ZTT when he saw the band performing "Relax" and "Two Tribes" on a Channel 4 programme called The Tube. Chris Squire (of the band Yes) commented, "This band looks really interesting. Why don't you sign them up?" Horn didn't think much about them until months later when he heard them again on BBC Radio 1 DJ David Jensen's radio show. When Horn contacted them to sign them, he was unaware that the band was on the brink of breaking up because they felt unsuccessful.


 
Producer Trevor Horn recorded Frankie Goes To Hollywood performing this song in his studio but was dissatisfied with the outcome. He recorded a second version of the song using musicians from Ian Dury's backing band The Blockheads, but didn't like that recording either. He recorded a third version with producer/engineer Steve Lipson, keyboard player Andy Richards and Fairlight synthesizer programmer JJ Jeczalik, then informed a surprised Holly Johnson and Steve Lipson that he wanted to start from scratch a fourth time, using a beat he had once made on a LM-2 drum machine. He added a programmed bass line, Lipson on guitar, Richards on keyboard and Jeczalik making "funny noises" on the Fairlight synthesizer to create what would become the fourth and official recording. Richards and Lipson added sound effects with a few different Roland synthesizers. Johnson and Rutherford added vocals to complete the track.


 
Trevor Horn used an array of electronic devices to form the backing track. He explained to Sound On Sound: "It was a combination of Page R and the Conductor and locking it to a Linn drum machine. So the basic track was eights running in a Fairlight ('eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh'), fours on a bass ('ee ee ee ee') and a set of LinnDrum machine patterns locked to Page R played on top of each other. It was an amazing feel."




A little translation: Page R is a sequencer included with the Fairlight synthesizer. The Linn was one of the first programable drum machines that sampled real instruments - he used the LM-2 model. The Conductor is a unit that allowed Horn to connect the Page R sequencer to the Linn. It's something he also did on the Yes album 90125.


 
The record company's ad campaign for this song started with a quarter-page ad in the British music press featuring an image of backup singer/dancer Paul Rutherford in a sailor cap, accompanied by the phrase "ALL THE NICE BOYS LOVE SEA MEN" and declaring "Frankie Goes to Hollywood are coming ... making Duran Duran lick the s--t off their shoes."



It described the 7" and 12" vinyl singles of "Relax" as "Nineteen inches that must be taken always."  


 
The band's first-ever studio venture resulted in a 1982 demo of "Relax" and "Two Tribes" for Arista Records, but the company chose not to go further with the band. "Relax" was also rejected by Phonogram Records, leaving them free to sign with Trevor Horn's ZTT.


 
Fellow New Wave artist Gary Numan once said of the song: "When I heard this it plunged me into a pit of despair. The production was so good, the sounds so classy that it seemed to move the entire recording business up a gear - we were all left floundering, trying to catch up."


 
"Relax" was the only song on the album that was recorded on analog tape. The rest was recorded on a Sony F1 digital tape machine.


 
Holly Johnson once shared that Top Of The Pops presenter Paul Gambaccini "was amazed the record was being played. He said no one had got away with such obvious sexual innuendo since Lou Reed's '"Walk On The Wildside"



 
BBC Radio 1 DJ Mike Read once explained, "I didn't ban 'Relax.' I didn't have the power to ban it because I'm just an individual. What happened was that my producer went home one day to find his two young children messing around with the video recorder, rewinding and watching over and over again a clip from the 'Relax' video in which two men simulate buggery [a British term for anal sex]. And, not surprisingly, he was very upset."


 
This was used in the film Body Double, a 1984 suspense movie in which Holly Johnson, while lip-synching to the song, leads a man into a sex bar. The man eventually performs a sex scene as the song plays. This scene of the film virtually serves as a music video within the film. Backup singer/dancer Paul Rutherford also appears as a patron at the bar.




"Relax" was also featured in the 1984 Miami Vice episode "Little Prince," and in the 2001 Ben Stiller movie Zoolander.


 
In 1999, a man named R.D. Turner copyrighted the name Frankie Goes To Hollywood in the US and formed a band called The New Frankie Goes To Hollywood, which began playing shows in the US and abroad. Turner falsely claimed to be Davey Johnson, a brother of lead singer Holly Johnson. The band also sold new versions of the band's signature "Frankie Say" shirts for $20 each online.




"Two Tribes"


The lyrics were inspired by US president Ronald Reagan's belief that Christ would return after a nuclear war. The "two tribes" are America and the Soviet Union, who were engaged in the Cold War, putting the entire world under threat of annihilation.


 
The song features British actor Patrick Allen reading extracts from a government civil defense leaflet. Allen is well known in Britain for his distinguished voice, which has narrated many television adverts and films for over 30 years.


 
This was written by the band two years previous to release and was featured on a BBC Radio 1 John Peel session in October 1982.


 
In the extended version, the announcer states, "You may pronounce us guilty a thousand times over, but the goddess of the eternal court of history will smile and tear to tatters the verdict of this court - for she acquits us." When Adolf Hitler was tried for his failed putsch in 1924, he said these words (rather a very close paraphrase of it) in his concluding speech: "Pronounce us guilty a thousand times over: the goddess of the eternal court of history will smile and tear to pieces the State Prosecutor's submission and the court's verdict for she acquits us."


 
Former 10cc band members Lol Creme and Kevin Godley produced a memorable video featuring a no-holds-barred, hand-to-hand fight between Reagan and then Soviet leader Konstantin Chernenko. Godley recalled to Q magazine: "It was a very intense shoot. We were trying to get the audience to behave in a manner that we wanted to by chanting, 'Kill! Kill! Kill!' A few of them seriously got into the spirit of it by jumping in the ring and beating each other up!"


 Trevor Horn produced this track. He spent weeks juggling with the sound and remixing it to perfection. He used a Synclavier synthesizer and Linn drum machine on the track.


 
In the UK for two weeks, this was #1 while Frankie Goes To Hollywood's song "Relax" was #2. They became only the third act to achieve this feat, after The Beatles and John Lennon, who like Frankie Goes To Hollywood, came from Liverpool. Madonna broke the Liverpool streak the next year.


 
In the UK, this sold close to 2 million copies, making it one of the biggest-selling singles of the '80s. This was partly due to Horn's tendency to put out as many as seven different mixes of the singles.


 
This song had little impact in America, but that wasn't for lack of trying. "Relax" fared poorly when it was issued in the States, topping out at #67 in May 1984. Frankie Goes To Hollywood came to America in October to support the "Two Tribes" release, and performed it when they were musical guests on Saturday Night Live on November 10. They toured America through December, but "Two Tribes" went no higher than #43. When "Relax" was re-released in 1985, it did better, going to #10.




"The Power Of Love"

This song deals with spirituality and religion. It was Frankie Goes To Hollywood's third single, and proved they were not afraid to tackle controversial subjects; "Relax" was about sex and "Two Tribes" was about politics.


 
Anne Dudley, from the UK studio group Art Of Noise arranged the strings. In 1997 she won an Oscar for her work on the 1997 film The Full Monty.


 
The song was released in December and the video had a nativity theme. The video was directed by Lol Creme and Kevin Godley, who were members of the band 10cc.


 
When this made #1, this equaled the feat of fellow Liverpool band Gerry & The Pacemakers, whose first three singles also topped the UK chart. When their fourth single, "Welcome To The Pleasuredome," peaked at #2, this meant that they were still tied with Gerry & The Pacemakers for the best ever start to a UK chart career as the latter's 4th release, "I'm The One," also reached #2. Frankie Goes To Hollywood finally topped the Pacemakers when their fifth release "Rage Hard" reached #4, compared with Gerry's #6 hit "Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying." The Spice Girls blew them away in 1997 when their first 6 releases all topped the UK charts.


  
   

Last edited by arabchanter (31/7/2019 11:33 pm)


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

31/7/2019 11:55 pm  #1955


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

arabchanter wrote:

Hello lads, sorry I haven't been on for a bit, but had a wee health issue that needed looked at (nothing sinister) but seemingly should have went to see about earlier, but you know what it's like, things to do, and ach I'll go next week, so hopefully get back at it tonight, with FGTH.


Arabest

Hope all is well Mr C.
 

 

01/8/2019 9:23 am  #1956


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Yeah, touch wood.

Appreciate the message Tek, thanks.


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

01/8/2019 9:27 am  #1957


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 535.
Cocteau Twins.................................Treasure   (1984)









Treasure is the third studio album by Scottish rock band Cocteau Twins. It was released on 1 November 1984 by record label 4AD. With this album, the band settled on what would, from then on, be their primary lineup: vocalist Elizabeth Fraser, guitarist Robin Guthrie and bass guitarist Simon Raymonde. This new lineup also coincided with the development of the ethereal sound associated with the band’s music.

 The album reached No. 29 on the UK Albums Chart, becoming the band’s first UK Top 40 album, and charted for eight weeks.
It also became one of the band’s most critically successful releases, although the band themselves expressed dismay at it.


I think young Mr Reilly might like this one

Last edited by arabchanter (14/8/2019 10:45 am)


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

01/8/2019 6:20 pm  #1958


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

I've got Welcome To The Pleasuredome, don't know how it arrived in my house. 

The second album has a dust cover advertising FGTH merchandise at what I consider to be excessive prices, including these Jean Genet boxers:


Dearie me!

But the production on the album is something else, and I've enjoyed re-listening to it there.

I'm not sure how much of a contribution the FGTH musicians made to the overall product, but pleased to see that Anne Dudley was heavily involved.

 

01/8/2019 6:22 pm  #1959


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

And the Cocteau Twins.... I'll wait until it's been reviewed here, but I knew the folk involved with the trio in the early days.

 

06/8/2019 9:33 am  #1960


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

PatReilly wrote:

I've got Welcome To The Pleasuredome, don't know how it arrived in my house. 

The second album has a dust cover advertising FGTH merchandise at what I consider to be excessive prices, including these Jean Genet boxers:


Dearie me!

.




 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

06/8/2019 9:38 am  #1961


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 536.
Minor Threat..............................Out Of Step   (1984)











After a temporary break-up in 1982, Minor Threat entered Inner Ear Studios in January 1983 to record this album. Don Zientara, known for his production work with Fugazi and Minor Threat, worked on the recording sessions. The lyrics on Out of Step deal mainly with the theme of friendship. The first vinyl pressing of the album (with plain black cover) is contained on the Complete Discography compilation. After the second pressing, the band remixed the album, which remained in print on vinyl into the 2000s.


 Out of Step has received a number of positive reviews and is cited as a landmark album of the hardcore punk genre. The book 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die mentionned the record. Pitchfork Media ranked the album number 100 on their list of the Top 100 Albums of the 1980s. In 2005, Out of Step was ranked number nine on Spin magazine’s list of “Ten Reasons Why We Wish SPIN Had Started in 1984”



Will deffo do some slavering about Run DMC tonight, as running late just now.

Last edited by arabchanter (14/8/2019 10:45 am)


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

07/8/2019 12:32 am  #1962


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 533.
Run-DMC..............................Run-DMC   (1984)














Alright folks, been putting this one off for far too long. This is a genre I know absolutely fuck all about, it's also a genre that I really haven't ever been in close contact with, I've never really listened to this music and most of my close friends in 1984 or to be fair anytime after that were never into this style of music.



So it's no surprise that I don't really get it, maybe being in my mid twenties when this came out it coud've been it, and it was for the young guns but I can't say I particularly enjoyed this hip-hop/rap type of deal, just like people who grew up with the Beatles and maybe couldn't get on with punk (there are such people I've met them) I couldn't and still can't get into it as a whole.


I found myself not hating it but if I was in a pub and this was playing  non-stop I would do a runner, I think sometimes you are influenced by the latest fads, friendship groups as in what they are listening to and what sometimes makes you feel a tad elite, and not a "run of the mill Bill"


Anyways this album didn't move me in any way, a couple of tracks, "Rock Box," "Hollis Crew" and " It's Like That" were ok, but the rest all seemed much of a muchness to this listener. Now in saying all that, I'm not going to write this off completely, I'm going to download it and give it a week then decide what to do with it, so if any of you young blades (or even older blades) can guide me and tell me what I'm missing I'll be eternally grateful.


This album wont be going into my collection  (as yet)






Bits & Bobs.



Run-D.M.C. has a lot of firsts: they were the first rap group to grace the cover of Rolling Stone, the first rap act with gold, platinum and multiplatinum albums, the first rap act to appear on MTV, and the first rap act to sign a major endorsement deal (with Adidas).


 Run-D.M.C. appeared as themselves in the 1985 movie, Krush Groove. The movie is a semi-biographical account of Joseph "Run" Simmons' brother, Russell and the early days of Def Jam Records. Also appearing in the film were Kurtis Blow, The Fat Boys, Shelia E and The Beastie Boys.


 
About the group's style, Joseph "Run" Simmons says, "There were guys that wore hats like those and sneakers with no shoestrings. It was a very street thing to wear, extremely rough. They couldn't wear shoelaces in jail and we took it as a fashion statement. The reason they couldn't have shoelaces in jail was because they might hang themselves. That's why DMC says My Adidas only bring good news and they are not used as felon shoes."


 
For a while, they wanted to call themselves The Dynamic Two or Treacherous Two. There are various claims about the meaning of the "DMC" in Run DMC. It is widely accepted to refer to Darryl "DMC" McDaniels last name, but there are other references, as well. DMC makes other references to what it stands for, including, "Devastating Mic Control" and "D for never dirty, MC for mostly clean." There is also a third reference that DMC makes: "The 'D's for Doing it all of the time, the 'M's for the rhymes that all are Mine, The 'C's for Cool - cool as can be."


 
As a child, Jam Master Jay played trumpet, bass, guitar and drums in several different bands, but gave them all up when, at the age of 13, discovered turntables. Soon after, he began DJ'ing.


 
Joseph "Run" Simmons turned to television after the group called it quits. He and his family were the subject of an MTV reality show called Run's House that aired 2005-2009.

 
Jason "Jam Master Jay" Mizzel had a big influence on an up and coming rapper that would soon be a mega star. Jay worked with a young 50 Cent, teaching him how to count bars, construct songs and produce albums. Mizzel founded the label Jam Master Jay Records and also established the Scratch DJ Academy in Manhattan, New York. Jay was murdered on October 30, 2002 in his studio.


 
In the late '90s and early '00s, DMC battled drug addiction, alcoholism and depression. "I was just a metaphysical, alcoholic, suicidal, spiritual wreck," he told Q radio. "It was just this funny feeling in me, this void in me. Depression is funny because you get to the point where you just don't want to live with it no more. I wanted to commit suicide because of this depressive feelings, but the reason why is really stupid."




In 2000, he learned he was adopted, which led to his song "Just Like Me," and later, a memoir called Ten Ways Not To Commit Suicide.



RollingStone       August 30, 1984 4:00AM ET


By Debby Miller.


Most Rap’s just a beat and a boast, but Run and D.M.C., a pair of New York rappers, let the beat run wild and turn the boasts into messages that self-improvement is the only ticket out. Trading off lines or even the words within a line, they get into a vocal tug of war that’s completely different from the straightforward delivery of the Furious Five’s Melle Mel or the every-body-takes-a-verse approach of groups like Sequence. And the music, by Orange Krush, that backs these tracks is surprisingly varied, for all its bare bones. In their adventurous “Rock Box,” Run and D.M.C. set their clipped, back-and-forth exchanges to a crying hard-rock guitar solo, melting rap into rock like it’s never been done before. And the dramatic, dark sound of “It’s like That,” with an organ pouncing in at the beginning of the lines, sets up the scolding rap: “You should have gone to school/You could have learned a trade/But you laid in the bed with the bunk half-made/Now all the time you’re crying that you’re underpaid/It’s like that.” 
 Still, the bulk of the words are hilariously self-promoting. Their big dance hit, “Sucker M.C.’s (Krush-Groove 1),” is included here, its story the rise of the duo from auditions to success. They rag on the lowly suckers who haven’t bothered to pull themselves up, sneering, “You’re a five-dollar boy and I’m a million-dollar man/You the sucker M.C. and you’re my fan.” You’d think the poor jerks had been stealing welfare checks, but what they’ve done is even more contemptible to Run-D.M.C.: “You don’t even know your English/Your verb or noun.”



Run-D.M.C. was a hip hop group composed of three individuals. The group broke up in 2002 due to the death of Jam Master Jay in a murder that is still unsolved to this day.


Upon the release of their eponymous debut album, it became obvious that Run-D.M.C. was very different from hip hop groups of the time. Their music was a mix of hard rock and traditional hip hop, a move that changed the music industry forever. "Rock Box", the third single released for the album, is constantly cited as one of the most groundbreaking tracks in music history.


Due to the massive success of "Rock Box", the group decided to stick with the harder, rock oriented style of hip hop that they would eventually become known for. The lead single of their second album, "King of Rock", was so successful that they were asked to perform at Live Aid on July 13th, 1985. They were the ONLY hip hop or rap group to perform that day.



Their third album did more than just skyrocket themselves into popularity. Through the urging of Jam Master Jay and their producer, Rick Rubin, the group jointly released (along with Aerosmith) possibly the most famous cover of any song in history, "Walk This Way". This cover is credited with bringing Aerosmith back into the public eye after drug problems had caused them to fade into obscurity.

 In April of 2009, Run-D.M.C. became only the second hip hop group to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, after Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.They were also the first hip hop group to have one of their music videos shown on MTV, were the first to appear on the cover of American Bandstand AND Rolling Stone. They were the first to earn a platinum record (King of Rock, 1985), and the first to earn a multi-platinum certification (Raising Hell, 1986).




After the release of the song "My Adidas", they actually signed a $1.6 million endorsement deal with Adidas. Adidas formed a long relationship with not just Run-D.M.C., but hip hop as a whole.
All in all, Run-D.M.C. released 7 albums and changed the music industry in the process.


"It's Like That"


This was Run–D.M.C.'s first single. It became a club favorite along with its popular B-side "Sucker M.C.'s."



The song was written by the group's rappers, Joseph "Run" Simmons and Darry "D.M.C." McDaniels, and their producer, Larry Smith. There are no samples on the track, which was programmed on a Oberheim DMX synthesizer with vocal punctuations mixed in. It was Simmons who came up with the idea for the song after studying Kurtis Blow and getting encouragement from his older brother Russell (Blow's manager), who encouraged him to tell stories in his raps and give them a wide appeal through universal themes. "I thought I'd just tell people what the world is like, and how to improve themselves," said Run. "This was the seed idea for 'It's Like That.'"


 
This was the song that convinced Russell Simmons to work with the group. His younger brother Joseph (Run) had been pestering him for a while, but Russell insisted he finish high school before making a record. Run and D.M.C., who hadn't yet teamed up with Jam Master Jay, worked to together on "It's Like That," with D.M.C. adding some lyrics and hooks to Run's song. The pair graduated high school and went to separate colleges: Run to LaGuardia Community College (studying mortuary science) and D.M.C. to St. John's University. Teaming up with Jam Master Jay, they recorded this song with Russell's Rush Productions, getting lots of help from Rush's musical director Larry Smith. Russell was so impressed with the track that he sent them on his Fresh Fest tour with Newcleus and Whodini, and helped them record their debut album


 
In 1998, house music producer Jason Nevins remixed this, and the new version became the most successful rap single in the UK, spending six weeks at #1 and topping the charts in 30 other countries including Germany. Nevins received a standard fee of $5000 for his efforts.


 "Rock Box"


Run–D.M.C.'s third single, this was the first high-profile rap song to incorporate rock guitar, which boosted its appeal to white listeners the same way "Beat It," with an Eddie Van Halen solo, expanded Michael Jackson's fan base. The guitar part wasn't a sample - it was played by Eddie Martinez, who was a session player most notable for his work with Blondie.



The writing credit on the song went to the three members of Run–D.M.C. (each 19 years old when the album was released), but Martinez got a production credit.



Run–D.M.C.'s DJ, Jam Master Jay, was known to loop riffs from Rock albums for Joseph "Run" Simmons and Darryl "D.M.C." McDaniels to rap over. One of his favorites from the riff from Aerosmith's "Walk This Way," which they recorded in 1986 with Steven Tyler and Joe Perry in the first hit rock/rap collaboration.


 
The video was the first rap video to air on MTV. Directed by Steve Kahn, it was Run–D.M.C.'s first video. Whodini, Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, Kool Moe Dee and a few other rap artists had made videos, but they were low budget productions that MTV wouldn't touch. The clip for "Rock Box" had animation, compositing, and an intro by the comedian Irwin Corey. It also had a guitar, which pleased the MTV programmers.



Thanks to their mentor Russell Simmons (Run's brother), the group made some shrewd business decisions and were savvy enough to make an MTV-worthy video - the group had no interest in making the clip. Since MTV had never played a rap video, the group didn't watch it and didn't think it was a big deal - at the time they were more concerned with getting the clip shown on local shows like New York Hot Tracks. Their label, Profile Records, was much more excited and got a nice return for the $27,000 they spent to make the video.


 
Larry Smith, who was the group's producer, had the idea for the rock guitar on the song, which the rappers were against, but went along with. They made a version of the song without the guitar, but it was the rocker that caught on. "We didn't want the guitar version playing in the hood," said D.M.C. in I Want My MTV. "But when DJ Red Alert played it on his radio show, black people loved the guitar version."



Run–D.M.C. were the rare teenagers who were willing to take advice from their elders; Smith was the most successful rap producer at that point, having produced Kurtis Blow and Whodini. He produced the first two Run–D.M.C. albums.

On March 27th, 1984, Run-DMC released their self-titled debut album. After the album was released, it was clear that things would never be the same for rap music.
Run-DMC almost singlehandedly ushered in the New School Era of hip-hop when they released their smash single “It’s Like That”/”Sucker MC’s” in Spring 1983. The record captured the spirit and stripped down, straight forward energy of the park jam and put it on a record. This was during a time when people were making rap versions of popular radio singles and trying to appeal to audiences other than B-Boys and B-Girls. Run-DMC’s A-side, “It’s Like That,” was a commentary of the Reaganomics ’80s and inner city blight in the mold of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five’s 1982 hit "The Message"


 The B-side, however, changed everything. “Sucker MC’s” was a straight forward beat from a drum machine with no catchy chorus in which DJ Run, formerly billed as “The Son Of Kurtis Blow,” did exactly what he’d do on the mic at a throw down in the park. It was bare. It was minimalist. There was no backing band playing a version of a popular radio hit to ensure black radio might take a chance on it. “Sucker MC’s” was strictly for the B-Boys and B-Girls. It was raw. It was gritty. It was also completely revolutionary.




"It's Like That" and “Sucker MC’s” both got burn on seemingly every boombox in major urban centers and succeeded in capturing the hearts and minds of hip-hoppers all across the nation. They weren’t trying to gain favor with the segment of black radio with program directors that shied away from rap because of its unwillingness to compromise or assimilate within the acceptable confines of funk/soul/R&B. Gatekeepers like Frankie Crocker, Donnie Simpson, Don Cornelius and many other entrenched black music executives’ resistance to rap — while ignoring its young audience who clamored for it — would prove time and again to be short-sighted.



 Up until 1983, most leading rap groups of the Old-School Era dressed like a mix between punk rockers and funk/soul/R&B acts like Parliament/Funkadelic, Earth, Wind & Fire, and Kool & The Gang. Run-DMC dressed like straight up B-Boys from Hollis, Queens. And their aesthetic made them accessible and relatable to legions of rap fans.



 Run-DMC’s follow up single "Hard Times/Jam Master Jay was released in December 1983. Its popularity led to it entering the Hot Black Singles charts on January 7th, 1984. Its ascent mystified many in black music; by February 18th, 1984 it shot up from #63 to  #11. That six-week span both opened the eyes of the industry to the possibilities of rap on the sales side seeing as how Profile Records was independently distributed yet they still were selling in excess of 250,000 units without widespread black radio support.



 Run-DMC’s success, coupled with several other rap singles climbing up the Hot Black Singles charts, led to the entire rap world’s fortunes hanging in the balance on the outcome of Run DMC’s LP hitting store shelves the following month. rap singles had managed to gain traction and move an impressive amount of units before, but the final frontier was for a rap album to climb the Top Black Albums chart. Even fellow artists helped their cause as Sister Sledge performed Run-DMC’s “It’s Like That” during their appearance on The Jeffersons called “My Guy, George” which aired on CBS on March 4th, 1984.



 After the release of Run-DMC’s self-titled debut album on March 27th, 1984 it was clear that things would never be the same for rap music. While they were on Profile Records they benefited fully from the push of the Def Jam/Rush Management machine which included the music industry savvy, hustle, and foresight of Russell Simmons and Bill Adler. The album was reviewed and written up by leading music publications such as Rolling Stone,Spin,Village Voive, Billboard, and New York Times that usually wouldn’t be receptive to rap.



Two people that were crucial to getting the word out about Run-DMC to the mainstream were Billboard writers Nelson George, in his weekly column “The Rhythm & The Blues,” and Brian Chin who covered the Dance/Club beat with his column “Dance Trax.” In the April 14th, 1984 issue of Billboard, “Rock Box” made its appearance in the Billboard Singles Reviews. The following week, Brian Chin remarked that Run DMC’s recently released debut album was “hard-hitting and thoughtfully executed” while highlighting “Rock Box” as a standout track. The next month, Kiss 108 FM (WXYS) in Boston did the unthinkable: groundbreaking PD Sunny Joe White added “Rock Box” to the station’s regular rotation. Sunny Joe’s influence was evident when all up and down the Northeast Pop and black radio stations followed suit.





The end result? Run-DMC entered the Top Black Albums chart at #43 on May 12th, 1984. The very next week it jumped nine spots to #34 before peaking at #11 on June 23rd, 1984 largely due to the success of “Rock Box” (which hit #22 on the Hot Black Singles chart the previous week.) One of Run DMC’s biggest achievements was reaching #53 on the Billboard 200 on July 28th, 1984, ultimately yielding an all-important Gold RIAA sales plaque by December. 



 The critical response to the album echoed the opinion of the streets. It was universally recognized that Run-DMC were rap’s new champions ushering in a new age for a daring, brash young American genre of music that was no longer going to be denied its rightful place at the table. Run-DMC’s debut album would become the first domino that fell just as hip-hop culture burst onto the American mainstream that following Spring and Summer.




The Cannon film "Breakin" opened in early May 1984; it became an instant box office hit and its soundtrack shot up the Billboard charts thanks to the lead single “Beat Street Breakdown” which was released the day before Run-DMC’s album entered the charts. In late May, the Fat Boys self titled LP was released, it became another Gold record and a crucial win for the burgeoning art form. Kurtis Blow’s singles "AJ Scratch" and "8 Million Stories" off of his fifth LP Ego Trip had the ear of the streets, but it was his single "Basketball" that broke into Billboard’s Hot 100.  In early June 1984, the Harry Belafonte produced Orion Pictures film "Beat Street"opened and became yet another box-office hit complete with a hot soundtrack album was helped hip-hop culture explode into the mainstream.



 There were B-Boys present at the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. Michael Holman (who was an associate producer on Beat Street) got a pilot for a show about hip-hop culture aired on national TV called "Graffiti Rock" in late June, which aired in syndication in 88 different markets. The B-Boying themed TV special "The Pilot" aired in September 1984 and was played repeatedly for a year afterward. In October 1984, Whodini’s sophomore album "Escape" dropped containing hits like"Five Minutes Of Funk"and "Freaks come Out At Night and "Friends"which cracked the elusive Billboard Hot 100 charts. Escape collected a Gold RIAA plaque in January 1985 after being one of the headliners of the hugely successful 1984 Fresh Fest with Run-DMC.




Run-DMC championed hip-hop culture and rap music in another crucial arena. MTV wouldn’t play videos by black artists and after constant pressure and protest from the urban music community they finally relented. Two of the first Black videos they played were Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean” and Run-DMC’s “Rock Box.” The record was tailor-made for not only the young music network but its Rock loving viewers thanks to the slick production of "Larry Smith, Run and DMC’s back and forth rhymes and Eddie Martinez virtuoso guitar work. Everything about the “Rock Box” video just made viewers wonder why rap videos hadn’t been on MTV before. The video was instrumental in pushing Run-DMC’s album beyond Gold sales and thrust them into the forefront of the burgeoning music form. After that barrier was broken down, the floodgates had been opened and hip-hop culture’s invasion of the mainstream was complete. After five years of the first rap records being pressed up, the genre had finally managed to reach the heights the release of Sugar Hill Gang’s “Rapper’s Delight” had set it on.



 Run-DMC was partly responsible for introducing rap music to a brand new audience thus they often were the go-to guys whenever anything rap or hip-hop culture related came up. Their style of dress was iconic (and an extension of Jam Master Jay’s personal style), the way they went back and forth harkened back to the Old School Era but the ferocity and power of their bars changed the way subsequent MC’s delivered their rhymes in the New School Era. Their live shows with Jam Master Jay set the precedent for how future rap groups had to command a stage and rock a crowd. They were the standard bearers. They were champions of the art form and the culture as well as hip-hop ambassadors.



 In short, without Run-DMC’s debut album you likely wouldn’t be reading articles on Okayplayer 35 years later.




     


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

07/8/2019 4:03 pm  #1963


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Run DMC.  'Hard Times' listening to that again. The first single from the album, and the first track, Hard Times, seems a bit tame and dated to me, as do most of the tunes. 

Because of the genre's use of repetitive beats and few instruments, every song seemed to be in the same key, so not just tame, but samey. 

I even remember 'It's Like That' sounding a bit more exciting, but maybe that was a remix I'm recalling. 'Rock Box' is a wee bit different, but generally, rather than the aggressive sound I remember (or thought I did), the album as a whole sounds quite subdued.

No wonder A/C took so long to review it, he kept falling asleep!

 

09/8/2019 12:54 am  #1964


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 534.
Sade..............................Diamond Life   (1984)











Sade deffo a marmite singer, a lot of people think she's too polished and laid-back, in fact I bought this on cassette back then but wasn't really looking forward to revisiting this one as I thought it would be a bit too dull for my tastes these days, but the things I worried about were actually the reasons I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this offering once again.


Was it smooth and polished? .........yes, as smooth and polished as a freshly bikini waxed doo-dah.

Was she laid-back?...........absolutely Nareyesque  (well no quite, but very laid back, but yer man, even just walking on to the park on Saturday, absolutely icebox, looked like he could still do a job and wouldn't break a sweat)


This album reminds me of a time when I was in London, if I've already mentioned this in previous posts I apologise for the repetition (but in my defence, it's been quite a long road with lots of alcohol inspired slavers, and remembering them all isn't easy, and probably not recommended, to be honest|)


Anyways, I worked behind the ramp in this pub a couple of nights a week, and there was a Kiwi girl who had just started work there, it was a big thing in London back then that you had a hell of a lot of Antipodean backpackers who would work three nights behind the bar for free accommodation, they didn't get paid but didn't have to pay rent for a room upstairs in the pub, and the landlord would always stipulate that two of the nights were at the weekend, everyone's a winner!

One night we were all sitting having a drink after we had closed up, so we were all having a good laugh and to be honest I'd never seen many girls drinking pints back then, mainly your half a lager and lime mostly,but she drank pints, now she must have been five foot tall at a stretch and a light flyweight with her duffle coat on, but I've never heard anyone before or since burp like she did it came right fae her toenails man, and ken what she never thought fuck all of it, just carried on yapping like there had been no break in the conversation.


To cut a long story short...ish, we ended up going back to her room, now being a gentleman I must insist on the "no names, no pack-drill" rule at this juncture, and lo and behold who did she put on the record player? fuckin' Kenny Logins, no just joking, only yer Sade album but to be quite honest by the time it got to "Your Love Is King" we were both buck naked and playing "Hide the sausage" I know quite a tenuous link, but I've had a few tonight.


The funny part of this story was whilst having our post-coital cigarette she said to me "have you ever wanted to bite your arm off?" a pretty odd question I thought but answered "Can't say I have, you?" and she said "lots of times, you know when you're well pissed and you wake up in the morning lying next to something you obviously thought was alright the night before, but in the cold light of day you realise you've let your standards slip (by an avalanche,) but hey your luck's in, it's not your place, fuck off pronto and all's good with the world, you start to move then you realise your arm is stuck under their body............SHIT. How do you navigate your arm without wakening the colossus that looked like Twiggy last night?................. Fuck it bite yer arm off and leave it there."


Now this wasn't a one night stand, we actually stayed together for a few months until she went off to the Munich beer festival and other backpacking trips, we left on good terms and I'm pleased to report neither of us lost a limb in the proceedings.


So, Diamond Life, very enjoyable for this listener, nice and mellow tracks without verging on the boring or cheesy, standouts for me were "Smooth Operator," "Your Love Is King," but my favourite track has to be "Why Can't We Live Together" the sublimest sublime song on the album"


I really enjoyed this re-visit, this could be my new chill down/simmer album great for taking you down a few levels, this album will be getting added to my vinyl collection, give it a spin guaranteed to take the weight off.



If there's a better version please let me know?










Bits & Bobs;


Sade can refer to both the name of a group and that group's lead singer. The singer was born Helen Folasade Adu in Ibadan, Nigeria. Her father, Bisi Adu, was a Nigerian economics lecturer from Africa, while her mother, Anne Hayes, was a nurse from England. As a biracial child, Helen's racist neighbors in Nigeria began to call her Sade after they refused to call her by her real name of Helen. While Sade is the short form of Helen's middle name, Folasade, ironically, it means "honor confers a crown."


 
When Sade was only 4 years old, her parents separated, and Sade moved with her mother to London's North End where she grew up. As a teenager Sade developed a soulful singing voice by listening to Billie Holiday, Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, and Nina Simone. She got some jobs singing around London, but to pay the bills she worked as a bike messenger and a waitress. Her educational focus turned to fashion design when she attended St. Martin's School of Art in London.


 
After her studies, Sade began to do some modeling and fashion designing. She even designed some of the outfits worn by Spandau Ballet during the group's first US tour. Spandau Ballet, a London all-male band, was one of the most successful groups of the '80s. However, Sade decided to pursue her passion for music rather than continue as a successful fashion designer. In 1980 Sade began writing songs and joined the Latin-soul group Ariva, and then joined Pride in 1982 before creating the group Sade in 1983.


 
The breakout hit single by Sade was "Smooth Operator," from the group's debut album Diamond Life. Released in 1985 in the US, the song peaked at #5 on the Billboard Hot 100 as the first song by Sade to reach the Top Ten. The song, which was written by Sade and Ray Saint John from the band Pride, was about a high society man living a luxurious lifestyle. Lyrics include, "Across the north and south, to Key Largo, love for sale," which inferred that the women in his life are also how he makes his money. Finishing lyrics say, "His heart is cold," meaning he had no love interest in his ladies; a real smooth operator in the sense.


 
Sade made her acting debut in 1986 as Athene Duncannon alongside David Bowie in the musical rock movie, Absolute Beginners, an adaptation of the novel by Colin MacInnes. She also performed the song "Killer Blow" for the film's soundtrack. The movie was initially a flop, but later became a cult classic mainly because of the soundtrack.


 
While Sade has appeared on the front and back covers of a special edition of Essence magazine in March 2001, Sade is a very shy person. In general, she avoids the media and rarely grants interviews. Sade has stated that, "I'm a diva, of course, but I'm not shy or reclusive. I just spend my time with people rather than journalists."


Helen Folasade Adu was born in Ibadan, Nigeria. Her father was Nigerian, a university teacher of economics; her mother was an English nurse. The couple met in London while he was studying at the LSE and they moved to Nigeria shortly after getting married. When their daughter was born, nobody locally called her by her English name, and a shortened version of Folasade stuck. Then, when she was four, her parents separated, and her mother brought Sade and her elder brother back to England, where they initially lived with their grandparents just outside Colchester, Essex.


 Sade grew up listening to American soul music, particularly the wave led in the 1970’s by artists such as Curtis Mayfield, Donny Hathaway, and Bill Withers. As a teenager, she saw the Jackson 5 at the Rainbow Theatre in Finsbury Park, London where she worked behind the bar at weekends. “I was more fascinated by the audience than by anything that was going on on the stage. They’d attracted kids, mothers with children, old people, white, black. I was really moved. That’s the audience I’ve always aimed for”.


 Music was not her first choice as a career. She studied fashion at St Martin’s School Of Art in London, and only began singing after two old school friends with a fledgling group approached her to help them out with the vocals.


 Somewhat to her surprise, she found that while the singing made her nervous, she enjoyed writing songs. Two years later she had overcome her stage fright and was regularly singing back up with a North London Latin funk band called Pride. “I used to get on stage with Pride, like, shaking. I was terrified. But I was determined to try my best, and I decided that if I was going to sing, I would sing the way I speak, because it’s important to be yourself.”


 Sade served a long apprenticeship on the road with Pride. For three years, from 1981, she and the other seven members of the band toured the UK, often with her driving. Pride’s shows featured a segment in which Sade fronted a quartet that played quieter, jazzier numbers. One of these, a song called Smooth Operator, which Sade had co-written herself, attracted the attention of record company talent scouts. Soon, everybody wanted to sign her, but not the rest of Pride. Obstinately loyal to her friends in the group, Sade refused to depart. 18 months later she relented and signed to Epic records – on condition that she took with her the three band mates who still comprise the entity known as Sade: saxophonist Stuart Matthewman, keyboard player Andrew Hale, and bassist Paul Spencer Denman.


 Sade’s first single, Your Love Is King, became a top 10 British hit in February 1984, and with that her life, and that of the band, changed forever. The unstressed, understated elegance of the music in conjunction with her look – unspecifically exotic and effortlessly sophisticated – launched Sade as the female face of the style decade. Magazines queued to put her on the cover. “It wasn’t marketing,” she says, wearily. “It was just me. And I wasn’t trying to promote an image.”


 At the time of the first album, Diamond Life, in 1984, Sade’s actual life was anything but diamond-like. She was living in a converted fire station in Finsbury Park, North London, with her then boyfriend, the style journalist Robert Elms. There was no heating, which meant that she had to get dressed in bed. The loo, which used to ice over in winter, was on the fire escape. The bath was in the kitchen: “We were freezing, basically”. For the remainder of the 1980’s, as the first three albums sold by the million around the world, Sade toured more or less constantly. For her this remains a point of principle. “If you just do TV or video then you become a tool of the record industry. All you’re doing is selling a product. It’s when I get on stage with the band and we play that I know that people love the music. I can feel it. Sometimes I yearn to be on the road. The feeling overwhelms me”.


 Intrusive media interest in her private life has inspired a continuing reluctance on her part to participate in the promotional game. Having been travestied in print on many occasions, Sade rarely gives interviews. “It’s terrible this Fleet Street mentality that if something seems simple and easy, there must be something funny going on”.





RollingStone           May 23, 1985 3:20PM ET



By Charles Shaar Murray.



n England, ’twas ever thus: before the hit records, before the acclaim, before even the voice . . . there comes The Look. And what a look Sade has: the high forehead; the svelte shape; the luminous, almost Oriental eyes; the generous, sensual mouth. Without pastel cosmetics or a hedge-clipper haircut, Sade has a look that’s both distinctive and unconventionally alluring.


 And in the last year and a half, the twenty-five-year-old Sade (pronounced shar-day) has parlayed that look into an equally stunning musical career. As the lead singer and lyricist for the group that carries her name, Sade has seen her debut album, Diamond Life, sell more than a million copies in the U.K. and 4 million around the world. And now, spurred on by the single “Smooth Operator,” Diamond Life is vaulting up the U.S. charts.  Unlike Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, Culture Club, Wham! and other British chart toppers, Sade shuns such excesses as synthesizers, glittery clothes and lavish videos. Instead, she represents cool understatement, an elegance based on absolute simplicity. Sade’s smooth, husky voice and her penchant for backless black cocktail dresses recall nothing so much as the great New York jazz clubs of the Thirties and Forties, while her band’s stripped-down arrangements have more to do with jazz than with rock & roll.


 Her success has stirred talk, especially in the U.K., of a jazz revival. But Sade is careful not to call her record a jazz LP. “I’m frightened of anyone for one minute thinking that we’re trying to be a jazz band,” she says, “because if we were, we could do it a lot better than we’re doing now.”


 In photos, her look seems austere, even haughty. In person, though, Sade is open and friendly. Her style is instinctive, and even at noon in her publicist’s modest London office, distanced from the fashion and music-biz storm centers of Kings Road and the West End, she’s dressed smart in pegged jeans and a black leather jacket. She’s unselfconscious about her look, and she claims a similar lack of premeditation or calculation for her band’s music.


 “We don’t sit around and say, ‘Right, we’re going to create this sound.’ It happens too naturally for us to even intellectualize about. When we create a song, it’s just . . . the way it goes. Our music is clearly pop, because it’s easy to understand. All the songs I’ve ever loved – even jazz stuff – are things that tell a story, like [Roland Kirk’s] “The Inflated Tear.’ And (Miles Davis) ‘Sketches of Spain’ – you feel you’re in Spain. The soul stuff I like is Sly and ‘Family Affair,’ and Marvin Gaye, who always tells a simple story. It’s all simple and unpretentious, and that’s what music is to me. It should take you somewhere and move you in some way, and that’s what I want our songs to do.” 
 There has always been something different about the Nigerian-born Helen Folasade Adu. Her parents met in the Fifties, when her father, a Nigerian, was studying for a master’s degree at the London School of Economics. After their marriage and the birth of a son, the couple returned to Nigeria, settling in Ibadan, where Sade’s father took a teaching post and where Sade was born in 1959. Her parents’ relationship didn’t last, however (“My father was a very difficult man”), and by 1963, Sade found herself in England, living with her mother, her brother and her grandparents in the small Essex village of Great Hawkesley – just in time for one of the coldest winters in British history.


 “It was all just green and white, green and white everywhere,” Sade recalls. “I’d never seen snow before. My grandfather was a bit tight, and he wouldn’t put heating in our room. We had icicles hanging from the condensation and ice along the inside of the window ledge. It was absolutely horrifying.”


 After Sade’s mother completed her nursing-school studies, she moved the family to its own house. That, too, proved to be a temporary dwelling. When Sade was ten, her mother married “a mad butcher,” and the family moved to Holland-on-Sea, “a rent-a-go-cart seaside town, full of poodles and old ladies.”


 At fourteen, Sade discovered clubs, dancing and soul music, which became her abiding passion. “It was the only thing to be listening to, the only thing I could possibly like,” she says. She liked her soul straight from the U.S., but she had a soft spot for Stevie Winwood’s voice; she’d even ask the local DJ to end the evening by playing Traffic‘s “Walking in the Wind.”


 She moved to London at age seventeen to take a three-year course in fashion and design at St. Martin’s College of Art in the West End. At the same time, she also discovered the joys of the capital’s clubland. When she completed her course, she struck out on her own, designing and selling men’s clothes, operating on what could delicately be described as a tight profit margin. It was a time when the art and music worlds were more intertwined than ever before, and when an acquaintance who managed a band asked if she wanted to try some backup singing, she was more than willing.
  “When singing came up, I didn’t think about making a career of it,” Sade recalls with a laugh. “I don’t do crocheting and I don’t play badminton, so I thought, This could be a good hobby! ” The acquaintance was Lee Barrett, and the band was called Pride. Sade was rejected at first, but the group couldn’t find anyone else, so they finally asked her to join. Eventually, Barrett suggested that she and some of Pride’s musicians work up a set of their own and perform between Pride’s sets. Sade the band took its first tentative steps at a Pride show at London’s premier jazz club, Ronnie Scott’s. Pride’s saxophonist-guitarist, Stewart Matthewman, became Sade’s songwriting partner when it became apparent that Sade was upstaging the parent outfit.


 The turning point for Sade came in 1983, when the band was engaged for a concert at the Institute of Contemporary Arts. The show was cosponsored by The Face, Britain’s high-gloss music and fashion magazine. Gussied-up technopop was at its zenith – but when a coolly elegant Sade, backed only by Matthewman and a rhythm section, breathed her confident, authoritative rendition of the torchy “Cry Me a River,” the place erupted with the joy of trendies who’d found their next wave.


 In October of 1983, Barrett signed the band to Epic. The group had settled around a nucleus of Sade, Matthewman, bassist Paul Denman, keyboardist Andrew Hale and drummer Paul Cooke (who has since been replaced by Dave Early); it had also made the acquaintance of producer Robin Millar, known for his relaxed, spacious sound. The simplicity and understatement of the Sade-Millar approach stood out in a pop environment crowded with attention-grabbing sonic devices. The group’s first single, “Your Love Is King,” was issued that February; it was followed by a second one, “When Am I Going to Make a Living,” and the album Diamond Life. Sade was off and rolling.
   It may have been momentarily hip, it may have been heralded as the New Jazz. Surely, it was a tasteful, non-flamboyant record – one in keeping with Sade’s general attitude. “That’s the way I tend to approach things,” Sade explains. “I’m not over the top; I’m not wacky. I’m fairly understated, and that reflects in the way I sing. I don’t necessarily think that you have to scream and shout to move somebody. Sometimes I am screaming and shouting: to me, I’m really putting something in and really saying something. But when it comes out the other end and people hear it, they think it sounds very understated. Maybe at the right time, with the right song, I will belt and I will go over the top, but I don’t think that to overstate is the best way of putting something across.


 “The same applies to everything: to clothes and design and architecture. It’s now so acceptable to be wacky and have hair that goes in 101 directions and has several colors, and trendy, wacky clothes have become so acceptable that they’re . . . conventional. From being at art college, I’ve always hated people that have the gall to think that they’re being incredibly different when they’re doing something in a very acceptable way, something safe that they’ve seen someone else doing. I don’t look particularly wacky. I don’t like looking outrageous. I don’t want to look like everybody else.”


 This distaste for wildness and flash is reflected yet again in Sade’s public persona. She does comparatively few interviews. She doesn’t feud with other artists. And in a country where pop stars are tracked incessantly by the Fleet Street press, she never shows up in the gossip columns. She shares a house in North London’s quiet Highbury with Robert Elms, a journalist, jazz buff and all-around scenemaker. She has come a long way from the night that she started scribbling the lyrics to “When Am I Going to Make a Living” on the back of a bill while walking home from the bus stop in the pouring rain; she lives comfortably, without ostentation. 1984 was a very good year for Sade.
  Sade knows the challenges that lie ahead. “I want to make a record that proves to people that we have got something. Everybody’s very skeptical about someone who has early, huge success. I want to prove to myself that there’s something there. I want to make a great album to follow Diamond Life, to stretch and come forward as a band. We’ve only just started, and we’ve got a lot to do. Diamond Life has been a success, but that’s finished now. We’re only just getting used to working together as a band; I’m just getting used to singing. I’ve had a lot of exposure at a point where I’m only just learning, only just teething . . .



 “Obviously, people expect an awful lot because of the amount of reaction we’ve had,” Sade muses, lighting one more cigarette than she planned to smoke, “but I feel a lot more confident now about songwriting and singing, even though I’ve still got a long way to go.”



  


"Smooth Operator"

 
This was written by lead singer Sade Adu and Ray Saint John, who was a member of Sade's previous band Pride. The song is about a fashionable man who lives a jet-set lifestyle. He's very popular with the ladies, and breaks a lot of hearts in his travels. With the lyrics, "Across the north and south, to Key Largo, love for sale," it's implied that the women he uses also supply his wealth. It's also clear that he does not return the affections of these women, as Sade sings near the end, "His heart is cold."


 
The full-length version of the music video for this song runs over 8 minutes and covers the entire story of the song.


 
Despite the cold-hearted lyric, this song is often used to imply a romantic encounter. It played a big part in the Season 12 Big Bang Theory episode, "The Procreation Calculation," where the lovelorn character Stuart plays it during his seductions after he finally lands a girlfriend.


 
 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

12/8/2019 1:01 pm  #1965


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

PatReilly wrote:

Run DMC.  'Hard Times' listening to that again. The first single from the album, and the first track, Hard Times, seems a bit tame and dated to me, as do most of the tunes. 

Because of the genre's use of repetitive beats and few instruments, every song seemed to be in the same key, so not just tame, but samey. 

I even remember 'It's Like That' sounding a bit more exciting, but maybe that was a remix I'm recalling. 'Rock Box' is a wee bit different, but generally, rather than the aggressive sound I remember (or thought I did), the album as a whole sounds quite subdued.

No wonder A/C took so long to review it, he kept falling asleep!

Not sure that it is a genre that is that suited to the album format. I didn't really get into rap until later in the 80s, Public Enemy etc. but these guys were amongst the trailblazers so they really have to get recognition of some kind in book like this.  I wouldn't persevere with this if you don't like it - there are presumably more accessible rap / hiphop albums that come later...

 

13/8/2019 9:18 am  #1966


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

PatReilly wrote:

Run DMC.

I even remember 'It's Like That' sounding a bit more exciting, but maybe that was a remix I'm recalling. 'Rock Box' is a wee bit different, but generally, rather than the aggressive sound I remember (or thought I did), the album as a whole sounds quite subdued.

Thought that to Pat.
 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

13/8/2019 9:33 am  #1967


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Finn Seemann wrote:

but these guys were amongst the trailblazers so they really have to get recognition of some kind in book like this.  I wouldn't persevere with this if you don't like it - there are presumably more accessible rap / hiphop albums that come later...

Good to see you posting again Finn, agree about the recognition, but personally I've been doing a lot of persevering, and if I can listen to Thelonius Monk and that other chancer Mingus and their jazz pish, hip-hop and rap will be a doddle. (I'm on the home run, only 467 to go )


I try and judge every album on it's own merits, and honestly tell it like I hear it, then haver a load o' pish about what I thought of it, but at the end of the day it's from my perspective, everyone can post up what they think it's an open thread, and as I've said numerous times, nobody is wrong, we're all right as it's our unique opinion.
 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

13/8/2019 9:43 am  #1968


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

arabchanter wrote:

Finn Seemann wrote:

but these guys were amongst the trailblazers so they really have to get recognition of some kind in book like this.  I wouldn't persevere with this if you don't like it - there are presumably more accessible rap / hiphop albums that come later...

Good to see you posting again Finn, agree about the recognition, but personally I've been doing a lot of persevering, and if I can listen to Thelonius Monk and that other chancer Mingus and their jazz pish, hip-hop and rap will be a doddle. (I'm on the home run, only 467 to go )


I try and judge every album on it's own merits, and honestly tell it like I hear it, then haver a load o' pish about what I thought of it, but at the end of the day it's from my perspective, everyone can post up what they think it's an open thread, and as I've said numerous times, nobody is wrong, we're all right as it's our unique opinion.
 

I've been in a really busy spell at work, but deal closed last week so should be back to normal levels of posting (i.e. not prolific).

I think a lot of the early rap/hiphop stuff was fairly subdued - it's livened up as the technology has improved.  I get why it isn't everybody's cup of tea though.  For me I think I was just alive at a great time.  Music really changed forever in the late 80s with dance, rap and hiphop becoming mainstream and it happened overnight.  One weekend I was at Flicks in Brechin in chinos and a blazer, next week I was in Fat Sam's in a hooded sweatshirt and trainers...or at least that what it felt like...

 

13/8/2019 10:09 am  #1969


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 535.
Cocteau Twins.................................Treasure   (1984)












I'm afraid this is another album I didn't take to, the singers vocals for me ranged from Enya to Kate Bush to Siouxsie with a bit o' those presenters on CBBC, supposedly ethereal, no fuckin' real more like, just a wee bit to arty-farty and musically insipid for this listener.

Seemingly she used to sing in her own made up language at times, well that just says it all, I'll sing what I like because I'm trendy................away and listen to yourself fir gods sake.

I even gave this album the usual percentage of discount for being Scottish but still found the entrance fee extortionate, this album wont be going into my collection.....ever.


I think Pat has some info on  this lot, I hope you don't like them, but if you do I have to admit they were better than King Crimson





Bits & Pieces;



The Cocteau Twins were formed in Grangemouth, Scotland, by guitarist Robin Guthrie and bassist Will Heggie. They quickly added Elizabeth Fraser, whose voice contributed significantly to the distinctive, dream-like sound that became the band's trademark over their period of activity from 1979 to 1997.


 
Fraser sang in the soprano range, but there was a strange, difficult-to-describe quality in her voice that can't be so easily classified. At its most ethereal, it's one of the most truly unique voices in music history. This quality had Simon Reynolds of the New Statesman declaring, "The Cocteau Twins are still the best by far at the 4AD ethereal dreamscape, thanks largely to the extraordinary voice of Liz Fraser. Somehow she's found a voice that falls completely outside rock or pop."




The "4AD" in that quote referred to the band's longtime UK record label.


 
The band took their name from the song "The Cocteau Twins," recorded by Johnny and the Self-Abusers - the band that eventually changed their name to Simple Minds and became one of Scotland's most prominent musical acts.


 
The Cocteau Twins were successful with both critics and the masses. In their early career, they were considered a "cult" band by most, but the following they developed carried them through to their commercially successful years from the mid-'80s to mid-'90s. Some of the band's most widely heard singles included "Heaven or Las Vegas," "Iceblink Luck," "Blue Bell Knoll," and "Four-Calendar Café."


 
In 1982, Don Watson of the New Musical Express met with the Cocteau Twins and wrote about the band's early cult status. "The Cocteau Twins are one of the year's great enigmas, a mystery to everyone including themselves," Watson wrote. "Three months ago, their 4AD album Garlands crept into the independent charts. They expected the customary couple of weeks hovering around the lower regions before the usual slide into obscurity."



The band, as quoted in the piece, was equally surprised at their longevity. "We just couldn't understand it." "We got hardly any reaction from the press and still the album kept selling."


 
Heggie left the band on amicable terms in 1983, following the Cocteau Twins first international tour. In a 1983 interview with Jon Wilde of ZigZag, Guthrie said that the change resulted partially from the stress of touring but mainly from the fact that the tours didn't appear to be financially efficient. At the time, he believed that the Cocteau Twins, which was now just him and Fraser, would never do a major tour again, performing only occasional one-off shows.



"Although that tour took certain matters to a head," Guthrie said, "we have no doubts that some vital lessons were learnt. It was a great experience, although towards the end, we began to question the advantages of it. Commercially, it has made very little difference to us, as I imagine we only converted a minority of the people we played to. The most important lesson though was the whole question of TOURING itself which just seemed futile by the end of it all."


 
Bassist, guitarist, and songwriter Simon Raymonde joined Guthrie and Fraser in 1984. The three met during the This Mortal Coil sessions. Raymonde was equal partner on several of the band's most lauded albums, including Treasure, Echoes in a Shallow Bay, and Love's Easy Tears. He also played on the band's final album, 1996's Milk & Kisses.


 
In 1995 interview, Raymonde said that the band's unique sound didn't result from any conscious artistic vision nor any mysterious musical influences, as had been rumored for the band's history. "It just so happens that when the three of us get into a room, that is what we sound like," he explained.


 
The band recorded an eerily beautiful version of Tim Buckley's "Song To The Siren" as part of the This Mortal Coil project, which was a musical collective formed by label 4AD founder Ivo Watts-Russell.




There's an interesting connection here, because Fraser was in a romantic relationship with Tim Buckley's son, Jeff Buckley, for some time. The pair recorded a duet of a Buckley-penned song title, "All Flowers In Time Bend Towards The Sun." The song wasn't commercially released at the time, but it was leaked online.



Fraser's relationship with Buckley has been characterized by her as "intense," and by others as "volatile." It was ultimately too much to last, but they shared a deep connection right up to the time of Buckley's death.


 
The Cocteau Twins remained a commercially popular band right up to the end, but personal problems forced them to call it quits. Fraser had to work some things out with psychotherapy, while Guthrie dealt with drug and alcohol addiction.


 
Guthrie and Fraser were lovers for much of the Cocteau Twins' history and had a daughter named Lucy Belle Guthrie. They'd hoped that their daughter's birth would help ground Guthrie and help with his drug and alcohol addiction.


 
The band was originally signed with label 4AD, and they remained with them through their early years. In 1988, however, they also signed with the much bigger label Capitol Records for distribution in the United States. Their first release with Capitol was Blue Bell Knoll. Heaven or Las Vegas, released in 1990, was the band's last work with 4AD.



The band's third studio album, Treasure, is considered by many Twins' fans to be their artistic high-water mark, though it wasn't as big commercially as some of their later efforts. The album was so highly esteemed that it had Melody Maker declaring the band to be "the voice of God."


 
Fraser was known, especially in the earlier parts of the Cocteau Twins career, for using nonsensical words in her lyrics. She would open up books and dictionaries written in languages she didn't understand, and would place these in her songs. She didn't bother to learn what these words actually meant. She'd just grab ones that sounded like they'd sound good in singing.



In "Whales Tails," for instance, the lyrics are mostly nonsense words with no rational meaning. She didn't have a systematic approach to this technique, but would simply "get a bug" (according to a 1FM interview) and compile long lists of words from sources she couldn't understand.



Fraser herself attributed this peculiar writing habit to her own "laziness" and to the fact that, for some reason she couldn't quite articulate, it helped her get over her performance anxiety. "The music and the singing and the words created the feeling," Fraser said. "I had a freedom doing this that I didn't have singing English... I just didn't have the courage to sing in English. I felt like shark bait. I felt inadequate."



Some fans and critics, however, considered it to be an artistic statement and an intrinsic part of the Cocteau Twins magic. "Fraser's anti-lyrics meant these pieces could be anything we wanted them to be; no grounding, no limits, no lowest common denominator," Chris Roberts wrote in Uncut in November 2000. "It's truly epic stuff, all the more astonishing today in its defiance of prose and punctuation, its outsider charm, its gargantuan grace."



On November 1st, 1984, Cocteau Twins released their 3rd studio album and one of the most beloved by fans—the aptly titled "Treasure"
The album has a wintry, almost crystalline sound, like the shimmering lace skirt on the cover, or ice after a snowstorm. The songs here highlight the focus on sound over lyrical content, as singer Elizabeth Fraser’s soprano warbles with emphasis on syllabic rhythm rather that aural comprehension.



The song titles take their names from archaic and mythical figures, such as Aloysius, Persephone, Lorelei, and Pandora, the latter of which is sometimes listed as “Pandora (For Cindy)”, indicates that many of the songs are dedicated to real people, as is the opening track  “Ivo”  which was written for 4AD label owner Ivo Watts-Russell.



Despite all of this, the album treasured by fans was considered trash by guitarist Robin Guthrie, who has been known to call it an “abortion”:  (Robin kens)

…I’ve always detested Treasure. Not because of the record, but because of the vibe at the time, when we were pushed into all that kind of arty-farty pre-Raphaellite bullshit. And so I was just really ashamed of that record.”

[Lime Lizard Magazine, 1993].



Robin seems to have been warming up to the album over time.  “Treasure” was also the debut album for  Bassist Simon Raymonde, who remained with the band until their breakup in 1997. Raymonde considered the album to be unfinished and rushed affair:

“…we spent a month doing the album…and, because we never really spent any time properly in each other’s company, we were still getting to know each other. We’d only been friends for a little while…We just sort of recorded loads of things and then the album came out. It’s like an unfinished record with probably two good pieces in there somewhere. It’s our worst album by a mile.”


[Sound on Sound, July 1989].



 Perhaps it was the introduction of Raymonde into the mix, coupled with further experimentation with the more ethereal sound started on the "Head Over Heals" album, that made “Treasure” the work of art that it is.

 With “Ivo” being covered live by Jeff Buckley, and “Persephone” covered by a few goth bands, it is easy to see why the album that inspired the whole Shoegaze genre would convert journalist Steve Sutherland from thinking “another Siouxsie clone” to his infamous quote stating that the band are like “the voice of God”.









Simple Minds performing "Cocteau Twins" live at the Grangemouth Town Hall, Grangemouth, Scotland 28th December 1978. This is the only live recording of this song (apart from about 90 seconds recorded at the "Mars Bar" Glasgow July 1978). The song later became known as "No Cure" with a slighly different arrangement and a few different lyrics. There is also a demo version. If you wish to hear the 'Mars Bar' snippet, I posted it with the live version of "Tonight" (after the song). This recording has certain historical values. The band "The Cocteau Twins" attended this concert. This is were the band originated from. They took their name from this song. A source of inspiration! Please note: apologies for the quality of the recording. Nothing to do with me. I Still felt it was worthy of posting.............. 

Treasure, by Cocteau Twins

The end of 1984 was a creative peak for 4AD, the label that Ivo Watts-Russell founded four years earlier. October 1 saw the release of It’ll End in Tears, a wonderful set of melancholic songs by a collective of the label’s artists called This Mortal Coil. One of the highlights on the album was Elizabeth Fraser’s ethereal cover of Tim Buckley’s Song to the Siren, sprinkled with a heavy dose of chorused guitar by Robin Guthrie.



The opener to the album was Kangaroo, Alex Chilton’s song originally performed by Big Star. The song was interpreted by Gordon Sharp, with a great arrangement by Simon Raymonde. It was hard to imagine a follow up release by the label that can match This Mortal Coil’s album, but within a month, on November 1 1984, Fraser, Guthrie and Raymonde, better known as Cocteau Twins, would do just that and release their third album. This is the story of Treasure.



The music produced by the Cocteau Twins is a great example of how popular music can be created without following usual song forms, instead relying on instrumental and vocal textures to generate a mood. Today this concept is used in popular music and films quite often, with samplers categorizing the sounds by the mood of your choice, just click the button. However at the beginning of the 1980s, when Cocteau Twins released their first albums Garlands and Head Over Heels, this was quite a unique way to produce albums. The band’s sonic textures are immediately recognizable, with the delay effects on Robin Guthrie’s guitars, the drum machines high in the mix, and above all Elizabeth Fraser’s heavenly voice. Robin Guthrie described the music as impressionistic, a perfectly fitting term. In the 2014 documentary Beautiful Noise, Robert Smith from the Cure said Treasure was the album he was listening to as he was getting ready for his wedding because it is the most romantic sound he ever heard.

For their third album Ivo suggested to the band to consider Brian Eno as producer. Eno was just coming off the recording of U2’s breakthrough album The Unforgettable Fire, which he co-produced with Daniel Lanois. After a meeting with the band, Eno quickly understood he was redundant and told them: “I am really flattered that you asked, but I’d never had have the courage to use the size of reverb that you used on Head Over Heels! You don’t need a producer, you know exactly what your music is meant to sound like. You should do it yourself.” Good observation and advice, as all of the band’s albums have been self -produced.


 The recording of Treasure was done under time constraints, not the ideal situation for a band used to come into the studio with no songs ready for recording. Simon Raymonde recalls: “I remember it wasn’t the easiest record to make and it seemed to us very un-finished. The problem, and ironically perhaps the beauty of the band, was that we never demoed anything and never had any ideas before we went into the studio, so the time there, always a short time, was always stressful”.




A lot has been said about the meaning, or lack thereof, of the lyrics on this album. Not many realize that this was a perfect case of necessity being the mother of invention. Ivo recalls a phone call he got from Robin Guthrie: “You gotta come up and help, Liz has got no words. She’s completely dried up. I went up and sat with her, with a dictionary, and wrote some fourth-form poetry – I wasn’t seriously suggesting lyrics but I tried to kick start it. But it was so awful and inappropriate and not what she wanted. There, for the first time, Liz started using words more phonetically than lyrically.” Guthrie had another explanation: “Liz was never comfortable with being judged on what she’d done. The more she got comments like ‘The voice of God’ the less confidence she had in what she was writing. So she started to disguise what she wrote, or split the words up in the wrong places.”



Ivo gets the honor of the opening song on the album being named after him. The song was originally called Peep-Bo but the band made it a tribute to the label head and their mentor



This was the first Cocteau Twins album with Simon Raymonde, whom Guthrie and Fraser met during the recordings of It’ll End In Tears. The sound of the band changed significantly with him, and he had a major influence on the material becoming more dreamy and textured. Raymonde on the experimentation during the making of the album: “It certainly is different. We weren’t afraid to experiment and loved nothing more than getting a new pedal or piece of outboard and throwing the manual away so we’d not be using it the same way others would.” One of my personal favorites on the album is a good example of this direction, the ambient track Otterley



The song titles on Treasure are all pseudo-mythological single words. Elizabeth Fraser on the song titles choice: “I thought it was a really good idea because I thought, well, what are people gonna see in these names? They’re gonna realize it’s got nothing to do with mythology and all that bollocks. Well, it’s not bollocks, but I foolishly thought people wouldn’t think that we were into that sort of thing.”


 An important element on the album is the sound Robin Guthrie was able to produce from the EMU Drumulator drum machine. The EMU drum machine was released a year before the album was recorded and was immediately adopted by Howard Jones on his album Human’s Lib in 1983. While not as ubiquitous as the Roland TR-808 drum machine, it was used by a number of popular artists and their signature songs, most recognizably on Tears for Fears’ Shout and Depeche Mode’s Everything Counts.


 Guthrie installed the Rock Drums sound chip to get those bombastic drum sounds. Back then add-on sounds were actual memory chips that you had to put into the machine’s circuit board. Programming the machine was a tedious effort, and if the drum track was a not a trivial pattern repeating itself throughout the song but rather an elaborate sequence as in many songs on Treasure, you had your work cut out for you. Almost all songs on the album have that distinct drum machine sound, Persephone is a good example



The album got the band an increased exposure in the media and bigger turnout in live performances. The album remained for 8 weeks in the national album charts and peaked at #29 on November 18 1984. The #1 position that week was held by Wham! Quite the range in music tastes by British record buyers. On the indie chart they fared much better and peaked at #2. It was 4AD’s most successful album to date. The band, however, did not appreciate the media attention that ensued. Guthrie: “I’ve always detested Treasure. Not because of the record, but because of the vibe at the time, when we were pushed into all that kind of arty-farty pre-Raphaellite bullshit. And so I was just really ashamed of that record.” Raymonde: “We just sort of recorded loads of things and then the album came out. It’s like an unfinished record with probably two good pieces in there somewhere. It’s our worst album by a mile.”

 In a blunt move at a time when music videos were a must for chart success, the band released no singles and no official videos to accompany the album.But unlike the opinion of the musicians who created it, Treasure is undoubtedly one of the band’s, and its era, most interesting albums. It has a quality that draws you into the music and takes you into dreamy landscapes. A quote from the band’s website sums it well: “The music on Treasure disconnects the listener from reality on many levels, creating distinct and non-corporeal atmospheres conducive to free-association.”

.

Last edited by arabchanter (14/8/2019 10:46 am)


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

13/8/2019 10:30 pm  #1970


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

shedboy wrote:

Treasure is one of my favourite and most played albums of all time.  Lolerei is simply a song i have listened to for 30 odd years and appears on any playlist of best of songs for me.  Domino is a beautiful creep of a song that at the right volume is sensational.  Strange different tastes and i accept not for everyone but this is a certainty in a top 20 of all time for me if not top 10.  Great write up though chanter

Good to see you posting again shedboy, missed your unique take on things , don't be a stranger!
 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

13/8/2019 11:26 pm  #1971


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 536.
Minor Threat..............................Out Of Step   (1984)














"Out Of Step" I found far more appealing than the last few offerings I've listened to, obviously there's no accounting for taste here, but I do like the gutsy, in your face, manic music of this album and would choose to listen to this every day of the week.


I enjoyed all the tracks, but particularly liked "No Reason" "Out Of Step" but mostly "Sob Story" with lyrics like :


"Boy I'm glad I'm not in your shoes
How could things get any worse for you?
You're so fucking alone
How could things get any worse for you?
I don't blame you when you piss and moan"

and


Cause I'm sick
And I'm tired
Of your whining, complaining
And Bitching and moaning

Boo fucking hoo

What's not to like?

I enjoyed this hard core punk offering, if I had to have a gripe it would be, why do some American punk bands try to sing in a English/Cockney accent?


This album wont be going into my vinyl collection, but I will be downloading a few of the tracks for my shuffle.





Bits & Bobs;


When their former band, The Teen Idles, broke up Ian MacKaye and Jeff Nelson decided to form a new band with Ian on vocals. In 1980 they started playing with Lyle Preslar, who sang for the Extorts and wanted to switch to guitar. Lyle introduced them to Brian Baker who started playing bass in November and the band played its first show a month later. Minor Threat and SOA were part of a small wave of new kids and bands in DC, many of whom were not into drugs and alcohol. Some of the bands made mention of this in their lyrics, and Minor Threat's song "Straight Edge" coined the phrase that is now used to describe a drug and alcohol-free lifestyle. The band played regularly but broke up at the end of the summer of 1981 when Lyle left DC to go to college. Six months later, dissatisfaction with school and a sense of unfinished business prompted Lyle to drop out and Minor Threat reformed in April '82. That fall, Steve Hansgen joined to play bass while Brian moved to second guitar and the band recorded and toured as a five piece until June '83. Minor Threat played a few more shows as a four piece that summer, but they were not getting along. They were unable to agree on the direction of the music, and ended up spending more time arguing than playing in the practice space. Faced with this dilemma, the members decided that it would be better for all involved to shut it down. Ian went on to form Embrace, Egg Hunt, Fugazi and the Evens. Jeff later played in Three and the High Back Chairs. Lyle played in Samhain and Brian formed Dag Nasty and currently plays guitar in Bad Religion.

Out of Step (1983)  Reviewer John Genile


April 2nd 2018


Even though it was released less than three years after their formation, Out of Step found Minor Threat as a much more wizened, world weary band than their previous EPs suggested. Recorded after the band’s first break up, Out of Step finds the band reacting to a movement that they basically singlehandedly created.

 
Gone were the “simplistic,” single-riff chargers like “Filler” and “Small Man, Big Mouth.” In their place where multi-parted, sometimes purposefully unevenly gaited mini-epics like “Betray” and “Look Back and Laugh.” Minor Threat certainly had a substantial hand in creating hardcore during its nascent stage, but already by their first proper album were they creating what would become post-hardcore. See “It Follows” which is more based in a low, rumbling clack than a speed-up rock riff, which also has a brief spoken word section and ends with whistling. That’s not to mention that whereas Ian MacKaye used to ride the riff for maximum fist pounding power, here he was deliberately singing against the music in order to create a more difficult, and more multifaceted contrast.




In part, this may have been the addition of Steve Hansgen on bass, giving the band more room, and more tools to create their wall of sound. Depending on who you ask, this was either the band’s next logical step of their eventual undoing. None of the tracks here are quite as catchy as their first two eps, but that may have been the point. Where the earlier works seemed to pull from gut and heart, Out of Step seemed aimed to stimulate the brain and conjure contemplation instead of youthful impulse.




But, where the music was evolving, the lyrics were keeping up or more. A lesser spoken Minor Threat tidbit is how often the band fought and how fractured they were. Minor Threat is often spoken as this singular, monumental force that changed an entire scene. While that is true, the band’s affect likely wasn’t due to team consensus, but rather, a combination of philosophy contrast and pure luck. That is to say, these guys fought. That’s plainly evident in the lyrics. On “Look Back and Laugh,” MacKaye muses that things that seem so important now might not hold the same weight in the far future. “Betray” tells you all you need to know by the title alone.




Most notable is the album’s re-cut of “Out of Step.” Along with “Straight Edge,” the original version of “Out of Step” forged the entire straight edge scene and decades of debate in just over two minutes. The grand irony being that the band didn’t intend to forge a set of rules at all. In fact, Minor Threat seemed to feel that their original musings had been so perverted, or at least skewed, that they felt it necessary to name their first proper album after a re-recording of a previously issued song. The new version of “Out of Step” seemed to feature a frustrated MacKaye. While it started off more or less the same as the earlier version, the track on its second half found MacKaye break into spoken word and exasperatedly explaining that “Out of Step” isn’t a rule book, but rather, his own philosophy: the track was more intended as a queue for others to think for themselves than a mandate on how live one’s life. Even today, that message gets garbled and even lost.



Perhaps because their earliest tracks were so catchy, Minor Threat’s second half doesn’t always get the same spotlight. That’s a shame because whereas the band’s first half found them setting forth fundamental concepts that would shape punk to its very core, the second half found the band both clarifying their position as well as reacting to the rules and styles that were being built around them. Honestly, it’s rare to find seminal artists explaining their art to an eager audience during their original run- usually the “explanation” comes decades later and is clouded by age, revisionism, and bias. The fact that the message of Minor Threat’s first half is often given greater weight than the second shows how powerful ideas can be, and how also, once they escape the speaker’s lips, they really aren’t the speaker’s ideas anymore.

Ian MacKaye on Minor Threat, Fugazi and the power of Punk Rock


By Paul Brannigan   April 16, 2014

Today is Ian MacKaye's birthday. Best known as the frontman of Minor Threat and Fugazi and as the co-founder of Washington DC's influential Dischord record label, the 52-year-old musician has an iconic reputation within the punk rock world, his name a by-word for uncompromised integrity, independent thought and principled self-determination.

 In 1991, I interviewed Ian MacKaye about his life’s work in a cafe in the Georgetown district of his native Washington DC, for a university dissertation. Twenty years on, we met again at the same cafe to pick up on that conversation…


 The last time we were in this café, 20 years ago, you told me about seeing your first ever punk rock show – The Cramps - a stone’s throw from here, at Georgetown University’s Hall Of Nations in February 1979. What changed for you that night?



 “Well, I must have told you last time, I had a couple of friends at high school, Jem Cohen, the film-maker, and Billy Albert, who was in a band called The Zones, a kinda teen-punk band in my high school, and we talked about music a lot. I liked hard rock – Ted Nugent’s Double Live Gonzo and Zeppelin – and I was a skateboarder dude, and they were getting into New Wave, which encompassed punk rock, and so we were talking about bands like the Ramones, and it was one of those teenage ‘They suck! They’re good! They suck!’ arguments, and at some point it just became time for me to actually listen to some of the bands they liked, because most of them I’d never actually heard, apart from maybe at parties. So in November 1978 I borrowed some records from them - Nevermind The Bollocks, the first Generation X album, the first Clash album, a band from New York city called the Tuff Darts, and maybe The Damned -and at first it was just too hard for my ears, it didn’t make sense, it was just too grating . I could tell that they were all different, but mostly I couldn’t understand it: there was elements of rock in it, but it was clearly not rock ‘n’ roll and it kinda freaked me out. I mean, The Sex Pistols just fucking scared me. I was just freaked out by it. There was something about that record that was creepy. I mean Bodies, especially, that’s a great riff and a great song but the lyrical thing was mindblowing. I mean, people tend to think of the Sex Pistols now as kind of a cute cartoon band, but that record is unbelievable. And then I started to hear it, and I started to understand it, and I was blown away and I started wanting to hear more. I mean, the Tuff Darts were kinda… it was kinda a version of punk rock, an imitation, but when I heard stuff like X Ray Spex it was like ‘Oh my God!’ So, by the time I saw The Cramps, I’d been listening to punk rock and I understood punk rock. But when I actually saw The Cramps it was just wild. The place was way over-packed, to the point where people were crawling in through the windows to get in. The Chumps and the Urban Verbs, two DC bands, played first and they were very different from one another, so I was already seeing that punk could mean different things to different people. The crowd was such a mixture too, challenging every aspect of convention in life, with fashion, and sexual politics and politics. They guys from Bad Brains were there and it blew my mind to see them, it was like ‘Oh my God, who are <<those>> guys?’ And then when The Cramps played it was just incredible. Their presentation was very visual and they were great players and totally uncompromising in their vision and then they were dealing with the situation in that room, and it was like ‘We’re all freaks, fuck you!’ And then Lux threw up onstage and it was just ‘Whaaaaaat?’ And then chaos just ensued. The tables that people were standing on collapsed, and then chairs started going throw the windows, and everything just got wrecked. As an introduction to live punk rock shows, it was pretty memorable.”


 We’re not really going to talk about Teen Idles or Minor Threat today, but I did want to ask you about an interview you did towards the end of Minor Threat with maximumrocknroll, which was a roundtable interview with Vic Bondi from Articles Of Faith and Dave Dictor from MDC. You seemed pretty disillusioned with punk at that time, and at one point you said something like ‘Punk rock has got more assholes per head than any genre I know, they have no respect for anybody.’ This was around the time that maximumrocknroll did a cover story titled ‘Does Punk Suck?’ so I’m guessing you weren’t the only person sharing a certain sense of disappointment with the scene at that time.



 “Well, if you put a piece of food out on the table and leave it, it goes stale, and a crust starts to form, or it starts to mould. For me, a big thing about punk rock was new ideas and constant evolution, but for a lot of people who are traditionalists or conservatives they sort of set upon a form and don’t want anything to change. And at some point the visionaries move on, and then all you have is the people who are largely practising it are coming into an already formed mould and trying to make themselves fit. And usually then the mould that they’re trying to fit into is one that has been fed to them by the media, like ‘This is how you’re supposed to do punk’. And so, yeah, by 1983 I was pretty disillusioned. When Minor Threat were touring the country then I was really surprised to see so many bands that I really admired just behaving like rock bands, behaving very poorly, being chauvinistic and ripping people off and just being dicks. And the skinhead violence thing was coming up too. I mean I fought in the early ‘80s, and I knew the culture of that and I could see the trajectory of how that could go, so by the beginning of 1984 I was like ‘I’m not fighting, I’m done fighting, I’m going to be a pacifist for the rest of my life.’ I mean, I was always a pacifist, even when I was fighting - my philosophy was to bruise egos, not bodies – but even if that was a reasonable philosophy, and I’m not saying it was, it didn’t matter, because all other people saw was fighting. It was just toxic. And I could see that it was unsustainable. One thing about me is I’m not a fucking tourist. This [punk rock] is where I live and I’m going to be here forever, so I could see that if I was fighting all the time, I just wasn’t going to survive. And now, 32 years down the road, or whatever, I think my point is kinda well proven. The guys who were kicking ass in 1981 probably aren’t kicking much ass now. But also, by 1983, Minor Threat were not a happy band, we were not getting along at all, and a lot of my friends were moving away from the scene and going to college, so at the time I was doing that interview you mentioned, I was probably pretty bummed out with how things were going for me personally, as much as being disillusioned with the American hardcore scene. And then Rites of Spring came along in ’84 and that kinda lit a fire under everyone.”


 In what way?



 “Well, they were just an incredible band. And suddenly we thought ‘Actually, we’re going to stake out our own ground, we’re going to keep making music and make our own scene.’ It was like ‘We’re not going to shut down your punk, have your punk: we’re going to have our own punk.’ I mean, one thing that punk did was give me a sense of self-definition, a sense of self-determination. It allowed me to be who I was, and allow us – as a scene, our set – to be who we were, in relation to each other, in relation to the people around us, and in relation to people from other cities. And around that time we all decided that we should use this knowledge to make some fundamental decisions about how we were going to live and what we were going to do in life – thinking about things like the peace movement, and feminism, and racism – and just trying to get to some kind of truth. And, I have to say, to this day I continue to work on this, it’s unending, it’s a perpetual thing.”

  So when Revolution Summer ended, were you even more disillusioned than you had been at the end of the American Hardcore era?


  “Well, Revolution Summer was our own thing, we were trying to evolve and change things, with meetings and talks and protests and group houses, and own idea that came out of all this was ‘Let’s get busy. Let’s make things happen.’ And that was in, like, the autumn of 1984…but there was no Revolution Autumn. So then Amy Pickering made her little ransom note letters and sent them out in the mail to people anonymously, and they were saying ‘Get ready, it’s Revolution Summer’, just as a reminder to us about what we’d been discussing that previous year, saying ‘Get up! Get up!’ It was a spark for us all. I mean Embrace became a band because we thought we had to do a band, it was Revolution Summer, we had to do something. Originally I was going to do a band with Mark Sullivan singing, and me playing bass, Mike Hampton on guitar and Jeff Nelson playing drums, but then it didn’t work out with Mark so then we tried other variations, and it became Chris Bald on bass, Mike Hampton on guitar, Jeff on drums and me singing. But then Jeff and I couldn’t be in a band anymore, because of too many years spent together, and Ivor (Hanson) just happened to be in town so we asked him to play. And obviously Mike and Chris and Ivor were in Faith, and they’d already had a horrific break-up, so jumping into a new band just wasn’t going to work. And it sure didn’t work! We only played, I think, twelve or fourteen shows. I think Rites of Spring only played nine. Insane, right? But yeah, I think I came out of that experience thinking ‘Okay, what do I want? I just want to play music.’ Sometimes relationships get in the way of love, and sometimes bands get in the way of music, because you’re so focussed on making a band that you forget that it should be about music first. Music is not an artifice, it’s a form of communication that pre-dates language, it’s why you’re here and it’s why I’m here, it’s nothing to do with a magazine or anything I’ve ever done, music is a deeper language, it’s real and it’s infinitely bigger than any industry. So in 1986, after Embrace imploded, I decided that I wanted to play music, without forming a band. It wasn’t disillusionment for me, it was a big spark, I understood then. I was like ‘Okay, I’m going to take my time, I’m going to wait.’ And then…Waiting Room, that was the point of the song. I knew Joe (Lally), because he roadied for Beefeater, and he’d be around my house, because Thomas from Beefeater lived in my house, Dischord House, and I remember one day they were packing up to go on a summer tour and I got talking to Joe about The Obsessed and The Stooges and James Brown and he seemed like a super nice guy. When they came back from tour they did a show where they played Bad Brains Pay To Cum, and Joe sang it, and I thought that was kinda cool, and then Thomas said that Joe played bass and I was looking for a bass player so I asked Joe if he wanted to play together a bit. And so we got together with Colin Sears from Dag Nasty and we started playing. I said from the start ‘This is not a band, we’re not playing shows, we’re just playing music, do you want to do that?’ And so we played together from August or September of ’86 right through to January and then Colin went back to Dag Nasty and we needed a new drummer so as Happy Go Licky practised in my basement I asked Brendan [Canty] if he wanted to sit in. And so we did that for another five or six months, and then he went out west to see his parents who’d moved to Seattle at this point, and so we started playing with other drummers – Ivor Hanson, and Jerry Busher, who was part of the Positive Force Collective – and I talked to Dave Grohl once. And then Brendan came home and I said ‘Do you want to do a show?’ and that was September 3, 1987, the first Fugazi show.”


  I have a bootleg of that show, and Fugazi already sounded like a fully formed band to me…



  “Well, we’d been playing for a year, we practised all the time, so essentially we were just practising in front of a crowd. It made sense to me at the time as a natural evolution. We were a three piece then, Guy wasn’t in the band. We tried to get him in the band before then, but he was not into it. He was like ‘I don’t know, I can’t see where I would fit’, but by the second show he was roadie-ing for us and singing backups. At the third or fourth show he sang Break In and then he was in.”
   I read once that the original concept for Fugazi was The Stooges plus reggae…



  “Hmmm, maybe MC5 plus reggae. That might have been something Joe said. You have to remember that at the time, in America, in the punk underground the dominant sound was kinda metal-tinged hardcore, often allied to extreme straight edge ideas. So that was the world we started playing in. And a song like Waiting Room was not in any way ‘hardcore’ by those standards… We loved reggae, we loved rock, we loved The Obsessed, we loved punk, so there was a lot of different things feeding into our sound. And people were kinda freaked out by it, because they were expecting this real fast, loud, hardcore sound. And then when we did the second record it was kinda different, and Repeater too. And people were like ‘This is weird, you keep changing.’ Of course we are, we’re human beings. You and I sat at this table 20 years ago, would you say you’ve changed? I certainly hope I have. We were operating in real time, because we’re human beings, and everything we experienced was constantly moulding and shaping us, so obviously the music we were expressing was connected to everything that was going on. We never wanted to sound different, we wanted to sound like ourselves.”
   Minor Threat never played outside North America, and Embrace barely played outside DC…



  “We played Baltimore once…”


  Okay. So did you make a conscious decision that Fugazi wouldn’t just be another local band, because you came to Europe really early in ’88.


  “The thing that you need to remember is that aside from the music stuff and the scene stuff and our personal stuff, there’s also the label stuff. In 1983 we were really up against it at Dischord, because the success of Minor Threat had been crippling for us: we couldn’t afford to keep the records in print and all the money we had in the world was going in to making more records and we wouldn’t get paid for months, so we were really in a pickle. And in like May/June ’83 Jon Loder from Southern Studios asked about putting out our Out Of Step record in England. I remember that Geoff Travis from Rough Trade was kinda interested too, but Loder contacted us and we knew he worked with Crass, so he seemed like a good guy. He came to see Minor Threat in New York and said ‘I wanna do your record’ and we said ‘We’re interested in that, but if you press the record could you press up, like, an extra thousand copies and send them over to us, because we can’t afford to press up records to sell anymore.’ And it turned out to be a really good arrangement. Jon was a genius and got really good deals with people, so then we started pressing Dischord records in England and shipping them over here. I’d been to England with Black Flag before, and so then I started going over there to do business, in like ’84 and ’85, and I started getting to know people and started seeing how things worked over there. I mean if Minor Threat had played in England in 1981 we’d have played to nobody: in the whole time the band existed maybe 30 people from England wrote to us, nobody really gave a fuck. When Black Flag went over in ’81, they were hated, for the most part, people were really not into it. Americans were not loved much in the British punk scene. But around the time I was developing my relationships at Southern I think Government Issue and Scream and Ignition had been over to Europe, and it kinda seemed like a network had started to form. So when Fugazi started we just wanted to tour – we did two or three US tours without even a record – so going to Europe seemed like a reasonable idea. Our first European tour was incredibly gruelling, something like 72 shows in eighty-something days, but all the shows we did kinda helped us get past the ‘ex-Minor Threat’ thing and helped us become our own band: by the end of that tour it didn’t matter if people were writing ‘ex-Minor Threat’ on the flyers against our wishes, we knew who the fuck we were.”

  Let’s jump forward: I remember you told me that once that long before Nevermind came out, Repeater had already sold about 200,000 copies. Those were huge numbers for any ‘punk’ band, much less for a band that started out not wanting to be band at all…



  “I actually looked at my journals from 1991 this morning and it almost upset me to recall how <<insanely>> busy I was back then. One day I made a note that by 6pm I’d had 32 phone calls and I’d made another 15 myself: that’s 50 phone calls in one day on top of band practise, on top of bookings shows, on top of recording the Holy Rollers record and the [Nation of] Ulysses first album…I can’t believe how much I was working. So, yeah, I knew Fugazi were selling records, but I was too busy to spend much time thinking about it. We never had a manger, we never toured in a bus, we never rode in a limousine, so really things always seemed kinda the same for us, regardless of how many records were being sold. At some point it became clear that there were bands who were selling a quarter of what we sold, and they were a huge deal, with journalists and managers around them, but partly because we ignored the game, and didn’t talk to people, we were left alone.

  I remember we did a show in January of ‘92, a Rock For Choice show in LA, at the Palladium: we were headlining and L7 played and I think Lunachicks played, and then a new band called Pearl Jam asked if they could get on the bill. We had no idea who they were, but the L7 people who were organising the show really wanted them to do it, so that was cool. And then I remember that backstage at the Palladium there was so much hub-bub around the dressing rooms, with so many industry people around because we had this ‘buzz’ band on the bill, but if you looked into the Fugazi one it was just us sitting there reading. There was no hype, or no-one handling anything for us, it was just us, so we’d just go out and play the show without any fuss. So I guess this is how I’m explaining that we never thought we were big: basically no-one was around us telling us we were big, so we just did our work, like we always did, and minded our own fucking business.”

  At what point did the majors come sniffing around you?



 “I think probably right around then. Actually I think at that Rock For Choice show Kim Gordon [Sonic Youth] said ‘I know you never would want to, but if you’d like to, we could talk about how things have been for us…’”

  That was already post-Nevermind then, because that went to Number 1 in the US in the second week of January in 1992.



  “Actually I think a guy from Geffen was driving me nuts in 1991, just calling and calling and calling me. Husker Du were probably the first band to sign to a major, to Warners, in 1986, and then there was a whole SST meltdown which sent all these bands looking for a home, like Sonic Youth. Then it seemed like everyone was being signed, it was just madness: there was a time where every band who could sell like a tenth of what we could sell had been signed.”
  There’s a story that a lady from Atlantic Records asked you what you’d want in order to sign Fugazi to them and you said, joking, $5 million and complete creative control. And then there was a pause on the line and she said ‘Is that your final offer?’ and you said ‘Actually, no, let’s say $10 million…’


  “Haha. Yeah, that was just me playing around. For the record, we never had lunch with anybody, it was never a consideration. Ultimately, control was what we most dearly valued, and we knew that once we got into that, no matter what, it’d be compromised: the idea of creative control is a bit of a farce. Once you’re an object of investment, people will do everything they can to maximise their returns, and you can resist it, but it doesn’t make a difference… if someone puts something into you, you want to please your benefactor especially if you’re beholden to them, which you would be. It’s hard to imagine ‘creative control’ being a reality. We came out of punk, and our point was never to smash the label system, our point was to make our own world - leave us alone, and let us do our thing.”

  There’s a great quote from Jose Ortega y Gasset on the inlay card of the cassette of Repeater on that theme… ‘Revolution is not the uprising against pre-existing order, but the setting up of a new order, contradictory to the traditional one…’


  “Yeah, it’s a great quote, but actually we had nothing to do with that. That was put on there by our designer, Kurt [Sayenga]: we were on tour and we only found out about it when we saw it. That was his read on what we were saying. We were rather startled when we saw it, like ‘Where did that come from?’ But I mean, growing up in DC, there was no music business here: if you wanted to make a record you made your own. And again, punk taught us self-determination, do your own thing. By the time the majors came sniffing around – and the only thing they smelled was money, it wasn’t like they thought ‘We need to shine a light on this important music’ – we were already set up and so it was like ‘Er, why now?’ When SST collapsed Sonic Youth were a really popular band, and they had to make a decision on where to go, whereas we’d just grown slowly on our own terms. We didn’t need anyone, we never did.”

  The ‘alternative’ world did change after Nevermind though. There’s a great quote from Guy in Michael Azerrad’s book Our Band Could Be Your Life where he talks about Fugazi touring Steady Diet… in Australia after Nevermind had broke worldwide, and he said ‘We might as well have been playing ukeles for all the impact we were having…’


  “I think that was a perspective we felt to some degree. It was just weird sometimes. So, okay, we’re having a conversation here, and there have been a couple of moments where the staff here turn on the machines and we get drowned out by their machines. And to some degree that’s 1991 to me. At times we got drowned out by the machine, but that doesn’t mean we weren’t talking and we weren’t communicating, we just got drowned out at times.”

  But at the same time you had Eddie Vedder going on MTV with Fugazi written on his hand, or Kurt Cobain namechecking you in Rolling Stone…



  “I knew Eddie, and I knew he was fan, we’d hung out. I didn’t really know Kurt until later, but it wouldn’t have been a total surprise to me to know that he was aware of our band, if only because some of my closest friends lived in Olympia at the same time as him. But when MTV got involved it did create enormous problems for us. And it was depressing to see. For instance, our low ticket price thing worked: we were able to do these shows and shift the economy. But when MTV started to embrace the underground, what they called grunge or whatever, the enduring image was crowd-surfing and stage diving - every video had it in. So then when you went to any show with rock connotations people would do that. And then people were being hurt, and there was a surge in neck injuries. And when there’s more money involved, there’s more lawsuits involved. So then the response is to put in more security, and barricades to protect the stage. And that stuff isn’t free. We played one show to 4000 people one night and the barricade made more money than we did: the barricade cost more than we made! And that’s not even factoring in the 30 security staff you have to hire to man that barricade. It was just psychotic, and it had nothing to do with music: it wasn’t a physical response to music it was like a behavioural hypnosis caused by television. Dealing with everyone else’s success was a headache for us, a real nightmare: it fucked with our thing and just gave us more work to do.
  One could argue that with the high tide all the boats rise, and so maybe we became more popular: In On The Killtaker was a very popular record, and I imagine that was largely the result of the tidal interest. But I imagine there’s more unlistened to copies of _…Killtaker _than any other Fugazi album, people sitting at home thinking ‘Why did I buy this?’ We were just trying to steer, just trying to manage our own world.

  The way the music industry works, they seek the fertile ground and then they rape the ground and then they move on. They don’t take care of the soil at all, they don’t care: it’s just about maximising profits, get in, get out. So once they left, having taken everything they could take, the detritus had to be cleaned up.”


  Steve Albini has that famous essay The Problem With Music: do you broadly agree with his take on the industry?



  “Well, I don’t think I’m as hardline as that. Everybody has to make their own decisions, including Steve. In terms of a spiritual level, it was more upsetting for me that in the ‘80s the conversations that existed were about ideas and philosophies and presentations, about how people were making music but after 1991, the conversation just became about business, about contracts and how much people were making. I remember one day Joe [Lally] and I were walking down the street and we met a guy we knew who was in a band who had been signed [to a major deal]. We said ‘Hey, how you been doing?’ And he said ‘We’re getting screwed by our label.’ When we walked away Joe said to me ‘We’re going to be hearing a lot of that.’ And we did. The conversations about contracts and managers, and I don’t give a fuck about that. It was a very dark time in many ways for music I thought. It was like watching people being chewed up.

  But, y’know, beyond that idea of 1991 as ‘The Year That Punk Broke’, there was much more significant stuff happening: 1991 was the year that America re-entered into militaristic operations, when the country invaded Iraq. There were weird little skirmishes in the ‘80s, like Grenada, or Panama, but much like the Falklands War was freaky for British people, the invasion of Iraq was mind-blowing for those of us who’d thought that America wouldn’t ever be going to war again after Vietnam. An actual real war, with sustained bombing? That was really insane. Our 1991 started with a show in front of the White House, protesting about the war. And then we started Steady Diet… at the beginning of February and we finished it by the end of March and then toured straight through until the record came out. So all the hype about alternative rock entertaining the mainstream was kinda irrelevant to us, we were busy doing our work. By design, we started this band to do things our way, and we tried to not be deflected by other currents and tides and weather systems. We managed ourselves, we booked ourselves, we kept our own gear and put out our own records, and I don’t think you’ll find too many other bands who maintained that set-up for 15 years of playing, straight through.”
   Let’s get back to the notion of punk rock then: I once read a quote from Joe Strummer, where he said something like ‘Ian’s the only one who ever did the punk thing right from day one, and followed through on it all the way…’


  “Hmmm, I can see why quotes like that would annoy people. I once read an interview with HR from the Bad Brains and he was talking about me, but it could also apply to Fugazi. He said ‘Ian works hard and creates something that only he can do, and everyone will point at him and say ‘Yeah, but only he can do it.’ That’s exactly the opposite of what I’ve tried to achieve. My point is’ Look, anyone can do it!’ I’ve heard that a lot about our band: people will say ‘Oh, Fugazi can do that, but we couldn’t do it’ and I’m like ‘Why? Why not?’ I don’t understand that.”

  Well, now, in 2011, there’s no Fugazi for other bands to measure up against…


  “But I think we were kinda a freak show anyway. I feel like the world we exist in doesn’t really have much to do with us. And now? Well, we may never play again, or we may play a lot of shows, I have no idea. I’ve known Brendan and Guy for, like, five or six years prior to the band playing a note, and Joe and I lived together for 12 years and we all continue to be connected. We really still give a fuck about each other and the collective ‘we’. But our relationships tower above people’s need to have a tidy package, to have a neat conclusion to the Fugazi story. It’s been a certain amount of years since we’ve done anything? Okay, tough shit, I don’t give a fuck, I just don’t care. Our band has always confused people. And no-one ever told us what to do.”


 Dave Grohl’s teenage fan letter to Minor Threat and Fugazi’s Ian MacKaye unearthed

Foo Fighters frontman wrote fan mail to MacKaye when he was 14 years old
US musician MacKaye has long been cited as a major influence on Grohl, with both his hardcore band and post-hardcore band inspiring the former Nirvana drummer when he was younger. Now, Grohl has taken to Twitter to share a part of the letter, which was recently unearthed by MacKaye himself.
The segment of the letter, which dates back to 1983 (the year Minor Threat disbanded), reads: “Good thrash so I was wondering if you could give me some numbers of people to get in touch with. It would help. Thanx. David Grohl.” Grohl also includes his phone number in the letter, which he says he could only be contacted on between 3pm-10pm (presumably Grohl’s bedtime at the time).


Foo Fighters  @foofighters  Look what my hero Ian Mackaye (Minor Threat/Fugazi) just found: a letter I wrote to him when I was 14! Haha!


 


 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

14/8/2019 2:56 am  #1972


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Congrats Mr C on passing the 2 year mark on this here thread (just another 2 to go).

Still don't think we've agreed on album though.

 

14/8/2019 10:51 am  #1973


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Tek wrote:

Congrats Mr C on passing the 2 year mark on this here thread (just another 2 to go).

Still don't think we've agreed on album though.

Thanks for that Tek, that fact slipped by me, 2 years eh.

And as you say probably another 2 years to go (if that's alright with you and abidy else) so plenty of time for us to mutually like the same album


Cheers.
 


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

14/8/2019 10:54 am  #1974


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

Album 537.
Van Halen......................................1984   (1984)










The last album during David Lee Roth's original tenure with Van Halen, 1984 was released in January of its namesake year. It was their most commercially successful album at the time, although it was deterred from the #1 Billboard spot by Michael Jackson’s Thriller.

 This project was known for embracing synthesizers, while remaining true to Eddie Van Halen’s signature guitar sound, with such hits as “Jump,” “Panama,” and “I’ll Wait.”


I don't know a lot, but I know what I like!
     Thread Starter
 

14/8/2019 8:38 pm  #1975


Re: 1001 albums you must hear before you die

See, this page is an education. I always thought the Cocteau Twins were names after the two Jeans, Jean Cocteau and Jean Marais, for some reason: the Grangemouth concert explanation is much more obvious and plausible.
 
Regarding Lorelei, it’s probably the most structured of all songs on the album, for me a lovely song, chimes and echoes. But the entire album is atmospheric and pioneering music throughout, vastly different to the stuff the originally turned out. I enjoy the fact that Liz Fraser makes up words and sounds to suit the tunes: her voice is truly used as an instrument rather than the front piece of a band.
 
You see I remember them early on, almost wandering without a vision of their future musical direction. Liz Fraser was a bit of a Siouxsie (of the Banshees) fan and if anything, they were a Sevco type act (although the Banshees weren’t at that time finished/deid of course).
 
Don’t think Robin Guthrie was ever a great musician, but he was a very good technician, wise with echo and of course his drum machine. And he recognised the value of repetition. As a bit of extraneous information, Robin’s older brother Brian was a bit of a music promoter locally, and fancied himself as a bit of an entrepreneur, which he wasn’t. He used to position himself in the front at local gigs, staring at the bands in a deliberate unsettling manner. I recall this from personal experience, still have the photographs. Brian also ran a supporters’ bus for Falkirk away games, but I’ve not seen him going about for a few years now.
 
I’m mentioning Brian because, as a promoter, he used to get reasonably well known bands to play in Grangemouth, and put his wee brother Robin’s bands into support slots. Robin was in ‘All this and more’ who became ‘The Liberators’, and another band ‘The Heat’ (support to Simple Minds at the 1978 Grangemouth gig where supposedly the Cocteau Twins chose their name). Brian also had Robin as main DJ at the International, a hotel in Grangemouth which hosted gigs, and where Robin initially met up with Liz Frazer. From what I mind, Will Heggie, the original bassist in the Cocteau Twins, had a bit of a thing for Liz, and chucked the band when Robin Guthrie became involved with her. Heggie went on to play in Lowlife, while working in the process operations in the BP….. but it might have been the ICI, cannae really recall.
 
Liz Fraser was a quiet, almost timid wee punk who often turned up at local gigs, including some at which I was involved. Grangemouth seemed full of heavy metal fans at the time, and she stood out from that mob in appearance, without being abrasive as her looks may have suggested.
 
Anyway, I never paid much attention to what was happening to the Cocteau Twins after their formation, and was a bit taken aback to see their prodigious amount of releases very rapidly three or so years later. I was a good few years older than the band members, and had chucked in playing by the time they became ‘big’.
 
 

 

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