Tekel Towers » Accounts

Beharder · 02/3/2017 5:43 pm

HH looking at the accounts i would say neither of your descriptions describe the running of utd. its probably somewhere in the middle.

TheShed · 02/3/2017 5:51 pm

Beharder wrote:
HH looking at the accounts i would say neither of your descriptions describe the running of utd. its probably somewhere in the middle.

It actually looks like we're pissing Money away weekly and have large amounts having to go out now and again.

On the one-off point, say it was just a one-off cost of £2.5m, then it would have been completely irresponsible management for a business with our turnover to expose itself to the risk of such a cost being possible.

Whichever way it's came about, there's clearly a high level of bad decision making and mistakes that have led to costs approx 50% above income. It's gross negligence imo.

HeggyHandshake · 02/3/2017 5:56 pm

Beharder wrote:
HH looking at the accounts i would say neither of your descriptions describe the running of utd. its probably somewhere in the middle.

Be interested to know how you come to that conclusion.?

HeggyHandshake · 02/3/2017 6:00 pm

Canadian Arab wrote:
HeggyHandshake wrote:
CA, which company do you think United are most like, the one who is pissing money every single week or the one that is a tight ship apart from a big amount having to go out now and again??
The honest truth is that I don't know. Overall we are losing money. I don't know what all the causes of those losses are and I don't know what expenditures we could/should cut back on or stop altogether in order to reduce or eliminate the losses. I'm not sure I'd describe us as pissing money though. We don't have money to piss away and the folk making the financial decisions know that. I suspect that they have taken several risks/gambles that they weren't comfortable with, in order to try and improve the club on the park, and most of those gambles have not worked out. They have also made a few wrong decisions and they have admitted that. If they had not taken those gambles then there's every chance we would be in just as bad a state as we are now, and they would be slated by the fans for not taking action when they had the chance. One thing I am confident about, though, is that if we were actually losing 50k a week, every week, the board would immediately make changes to reduce those losses, because they know that will kill the club. I don't see that as the same as trying to appoint the right manager, backing them with funds, it doesn't work out, and we then have to pay him and his management team off to get rid and get someone new in.
To answer your question, I suspect we lose a bit of money every week, but much less than 50k. We also have large expenses like paying managers off, that we hope we don't have to do but which have turned out to have been necessary. So somewhere in between the two. But I'm just guessing, because I don't have the facts.

Edit: That ties in with what Beharder just posted.

They have run the Club the same way for years, big losses every week and hope that we sell a player or 2. Lost count of the amount of times I and others have said, 1 bad year and we are fuked.

An idiotic way to run a business.

10's of thousands a week losses, putting our Club at risk.

HeggyHandshake · 02/3/2017 6:18 pm

Crazy isn't it?

Should be jailed to be honest.

Beharder · 02/3/2017 6:22 pm

HeggyHandshake wrote:
Beharder wrote:
HH looking at the accounts i would say neither of your descriptions describe the running of utd. its probably somewhere in the middle.
Be interested to know how you come to that conclusion.?

I have come to that conclusion based on a large overall deficit is clear to see. However to defend the directors they were forced into an expensive managerial change and they had to back mixu in the transfer market or they would have been slaughtered i know its not popular to say it but ST cant be blamed for Demel Pongolle Riski ect.

HeggyHandshake · 02/3/2017 6:28 pm

Beharder wrote:
HeggyHandshake wrote:
Beharder wrote:
HH looking at the accounts i would say neither of your descriptions describe the running of utd. its probably somewhere in the middle.
Be interested to know how you come to that conclusion.?

I have come to that conclusion based on a large overall deficit is clear to see. However to defend the directors they were forced into an expensive managerial change and they had to back mixu in the transfer market or they would have been slaughtered i know its not popular to say it but ST cant be blamed for Demel Pongolle Riski ect.

He can be blamed, he sacked Jackie after the transfer window closed. He should have been binned at the end of the previous season but our great leader chose to turn a bling eye on Jackie & Co's piss ups and general taking the piss.

£400k in redundancies btw.

Tangerine'n'Black · 02/3/2017 7:24 pm

ST has been criticised for many things but heavily for lack of investment in the team.

Accounts reflect that he has in fact done that, unfortunately the management who managed to squander the funds are to blame for the state of the team and finances.

He does have to accept blame for his appointments of Sackie and Mixed Up who are now being shown to have fully dropped the club in the financial scheidt.

We're in a right old mess, no wonder he hides out in Nero's and the Arch !

Beharder · 02/3/2017 7:25 pm

HeggyHandshake wrote:
Beharder wrote:
HeggyHandshake wrote:

Be interested to know how you come to that conclusion.?

I have come to that conclusion based on a large overall deficit is clear to see. However to defend the directors they were forced into an expensive managerial change and they had to back mixu in the transfer market or they would have been slaughtered i know its not popular to say it but ST cant be blamed for Demel Pongolle Riski ect.

He can be blamed, he sacked Jackie after the transfer window closed. He should have been binned at the end of the previous season but our great leader chose to turn a bling eye on Jackie & Co's piss ups and general taking the piss.

£400k in redundancies btw.

Again HH i think there is middle ground here ST was well aware of JMs "antics" but he probably held on a bit too long before the sacking in the hope he could avoid parting with the redundancy payments

Arabnophobia · 02/3/2017 7:26 pm

Some figures to digest that are relative to us and more so when the next financial results are released...

Billy_Hainey · 02/3/2017 8:04 pm

So in other words, the SFA make these payouts to the Clubs in the respective positions in the SP and the SC, but is it no the Clubs themselves that fund the SFA in the first place?

Arabnophobia · 02/3/2017 8:24 pm

Billy_Hainey wrote:
So in other words, the SFA make these payouts to the Clubs in the respective positions in the SP and the SC, but is it no the Clubs themselves that fund the SFA in the first place?

Not sure but reckon TV, radio, online streaming, advertising & sponsorship, charitable organisations, government and UEFA might all contribute in different ways bud.

How it's spread about is more of an issue/problem for us and the majority Billy.

I'd like to see UEFA and FIFA draw up a consistent ruling that controls similar spread of income in a fairer way across the European and World leagues.

Must be bad for any league to hand over the majority of money brought in from a variety of ways & means to be handed to the goliaths of the leagues over and over and over again helping create the lack of competition the goliaths complain about when a wee Davie club gubs a better funded Goliath oot O' Europe every now & then.

PatReilly · 02/3/2017 9:50 pm

Billy_Hainey wrote:
So in other words, the SFA make these payouts to the Clubs in the respective positions in the SP and the SC, but is it no the Clubs themselves that fund the SFA in the first place?

The clubs decide on who leads the organisations, and the clubs agree on the payouts. Things could have changed if collectively the top 12 had agreed to alter the voting structure after the demise of Rangers, but they didn't (Aberdeen have a large part of the blame for this).

It's the SPFL who make these payments, not the SFA.

I'm angry at our board, but moreso because they are part of the structure which has allowed Scottish football to be ruined and in a laughable state.

The board has also made huge mistakes appointing and supporting the managers they did, but I'm sure there were great celebrations among our support when it was announced the board had extended the contracts of McNamara's management team......... was it not announced at an event at the Caird Hall?

A huge pile of money was spent to get us relegated (including that McNamara team pay off).

Last season, 2015-16, we used 34 players over the dreadful campaign. For the 12 months of the period covered in the upcoming accounts, one McNamara player received £100,000 for playing a couple of matches, and two others were paid large sums to leave after contributing a few minutes of first team action each. Most of Mixu's signings too contributed very, very little but took huge wages for their efforts. We also paid another player who we had signed for a large fee to leave with two years of his contract remaining.

Here were last season's players (numbers are months of payment we made, notes are also added, all my own vague recollections):

Eiji Kawashima 7 months
Henri Anier 12
Seán Dillon   12
Paul Dixon 12
John Souttar     8
Callum Morris    12
Paul Paton   12
Rodney Sneijder - pay off contract which was a year long
Billy Mckay 12 (we tried to pay £200,000!)
John Rankin 12
Robbie Muirhead   - pay off contract to 2018
Chris Erskine   12
Ryan McGowan     8
Ryan Dow    12
Simon Murray    12
Charlie Telfer   12
Mark Durnan   12 (we paid a fee to QoS for Mark))
Aidan Connolly    12
Mario Bilate   - pay off contract which was a year long
Gavin Gunning   8
Blair Spittal   12
Michał Szromnik   12
Scott Fraser   12
Euan Spark    12
Aaron Kuhl   loan
Riku Riski   loan
Coll Donaldson   12
Adam Taggart    loan
Darko Bodul   12
Justin Johnson   12

Would anyone like to hazard a guess what this squad cost over the period covered by the soon to be released accounts?

edit: I missed out Henri Anier!

Last edited by PatReilly (02/3/2017 9:56 pm)

Billy_Hainey · 02/3/2017 10:06 pm

Reading that Pat, it's phuckin shockin.

lifesanocean · 02/3/2017 10:44 pm

PatReilly wrote:
Billy_Hainey wrote:
So in other words, the SFA make these payouts to the Clubs in the respective positions in the SP and the SC, but is it no the Clubs themselves that fund the SFA in the first place?
The clubs decide on who leads the organisations, and the clubs agree on the payouts. Things could have changed if collectively the top 12 had agreed to alter the voting structure after the demise of Rangers, but they didn't (Aberdeen have a large part of the blame for this).

It's the SPFL who make these payments, not the SFA.

I'm angry at our board, but moreso because they are part of the structure which has allowed Scottish football to be ruined and in a laughable state.

The board has also made huge mistakes appointing and supporting the managers they did, but I'm sure there were great celebrations among our support when it was announced the board had extended the contracts of McNamara's management team......... was it not announced at an event at the Caird Hall?

A huge pile of money was spent to get us relegated (including that McNamara team pay off).

Last season, 2015-16, we used 34 players over the dreadful campaign. For the 12 months of the period covered in the upcoming accounts, one McNamara player received £100,000 for playing a couple of matches, and two others were paid large sums to leave after contributing a few minutes of first team action each. Most of Mixu's signings too contributed very, very little but took huge wages for their efforts. We also paid another player who we had signed for a large fee to leave with two years of his contract remaining.

Here were last season's players (numbers are months of payment we made, notes are also added, all my own vague recollections):

Eiji Kawashima 7 months
Henri Anier 12
Seán Dillon   12
Paul Dixon 12
John Souttar     8
Callum Morris    12
Paul Paton   12
Rodney Sneijder - pay off contract which was a year long
Billy Mckay 12 (we tried to pay £200,000!)
John Rankin 12
Robbie Muirhead   - pay off contract to 2018
Chris Erskine   12
Ryan McGowan     8
Ryan Dow    12
Simon Murray    12
Charlie Telfer   12
Mark Durnan   12 (we paid a fee to QoS for Mark))
Aidan Connolly    12
Mario Bilate   - pay off contract which was a year long
Gavin Gunning   8
Blair Spittal   12
Michał Szromnik   12
Scott Fraser   12
Euan Spark    12
Aaron Kuhl   loan
Riku Riski   loan
Coll Donaldson   12
Adam Taggart    loan
Darko Bodul   12
Justin Johnson   12

Would anyone like to hazard a guess what this squad cost over the period covered by the soon to be released accounts?

edit: I missed out Henri Anier!

The lack of football oversight and proper scouting is painfully laid bare here. Spending 50K on a DoF and/or 30k + expenses on a full time scout could've potentially saved us a lot of money.

Arab_plumber · 03/3/2017 2:53 pm

We got rid of the man who ran the production line of young talent breaking into the first team.

Its abundantly clear we are no longer producing the calibre of young players like 5 years ago and also we don't scout the lower or english leagues anymore.

The whole club is a shambles from top to bottom and that is no over reaction.

PatReilly · 03/3/2017 11:32 pm

Arab_plumber wrote:
We got rid of the man who ran the production line of young talent breaking into the first team.

Its abundantly clear we are no longer producing the calibre of young players like 5 years ago and also we don't scout the lower or english leagues anymore.

The whole club is a shambles from top to bottom and that is no over reaction.

Stevie C is a big miss at the club, but because of the situation which led to his departure, I can only see him working with senior players from now on. He's a victim of the 'no smoke without fire' society we now inhabit.

Tangerine'n'Black · 04/3/2017 12:48 am

PatReilly wrote:
Billy_Hainey wrote:
So in other words, the SFA make these payouts to the Clubs in the respective positions in the SP and the SC, but is it no the Clubs themselves that fund the SFA in the first place?
The clubs decide on who leads the organisations, and the clubs agree on the payouts. Things could have changed if collectively the top 12 had agreed to alter the voting structure after the demise of Rangers, but they didn't (Aberdeen have a large part of the blame for this).

It's the SPFL who make these payments, not the SFA.

I'm angry at our board, but moreso because they are part of the structure which has allowed Scottish football to be ruined and in a laughable state.

The board has also made huge mistakes appointing and supporting the managers they did, but I'm sure there were great celebrations among our support when it was announced the board had extended the contracts of McNamara's management team......... was it not announced at an event at the Caird Hall?

A huge pile of money was spent to get us relegated (including that McNamara team pay off).

Last season, 2015-16, we used 34 players over the dreadful campaign. For the 12 months of the period covered in the upcoming accounts, one McNamara player received £100,000 for playing a couple of matches, and two others were paid large sums to leave after contributing a few minutes of first team action each. Most of Mixu's signings too contributed very, very little but took huge wages for their efforts. We also paid another player who we had signed for a large fee to leave with two years of his contract remaining.

Here were last season's players (numbers are months of payment we made, notes are also added, all my own vague recollections):

Eiji Kawashima 7 months
Henri Anier 12
Seán Dillon   12
Paul Dixon 12
John Souttar     8
Callum Morris    12
Paul Paton   12
Rodney Sneijder - pay off contract which was a year long
Billy Mckay 12 (we tried to pay £200,000!)
John Rankin 12
Robbie Muirhead   - pay off contract to 2018
Chris Erskine   12
Ryan McGowan     8
Ryan Dow    12
Simon Murray    12
Charlie Telfer   12
Mark Durnan   12 (we paid a fee to QoS for Mark))
Aidan Connolly    12
Mario Bilate   - pay off contract which was a year long
Gavin Gunning   8
Blair Spittal   12
Michał Szromnik   12
Scott Fraser   12
Euan Spark    12
Aaron Kuhl   loan
Riku Riski   loan
Coll Donaldson   12
Adam Taggart    loan
Darko Bodul   12
Justin Johnson   12

Would anyone like to hazard a guess what this squad cost over the period covered by the soon to be released accounts?

edit: I missed out Henri Anier!

Sorry to make the list more painful but there's Demel, Ofere , Sinama Pongolle, Zwick as well to confirm just how overloaded with rubbish we were last season.

Painful to read that list!

Tangerine'n'Black · 04/3/2017 12:55 am

Kyle Knoyle as well for second half of season too.

PatReilly · 04/3/2017 9:20 am

Demel, Ofere, Sinama Pongolle, Knoyle, Zwick.... forgot to add them, plus Matty and Brad Smith, Cammy Ballantyne, Harry Souttar, Ali Coote, Jamie Robson........ up to 45 at least, that's more than 4 different line ups.

Thanks TnB. I think.

Any more I've missed?

Tangy · 04/3/2017 10:48 am

Going to be slightly controversial here....

I liked stevie c and he did seem to take lads in under his wing but that golden generation of youth - did they not all develop under Cathro with sc having the finishing touches? If he had been as good as it's made out surely it would be a conveyor belt of talent with 1 or 2 coming into the first team every season and we don't have that.

Tangerine'n'Black · 04/3/2017 10:00 pm

PatReilly wrote:
Demel, Ofere, Sinama Pongolle, Knoyle, Zwick.... forgot to add them, plus Matty and Brad Smith, Cammy Ballantyne, Harry Souttar, Ali Coote, Jamie Robson........ up to 45 at least, that's more than 4 different line ups.

Thanks TnB. I think.

Any more I've missed?

Wasn't trying to be clever Pat, it's a horrendous list and proves we had far too many poor players and no wonder that the finances are as bad as reported this week !

Arabnophobia · 04/3/2017 10:31 pm

Tangy wrote:
Going to be slightly controversial here....

I liked stevie c and he did seem to take lads in under his wing but that golden generation of youth - did they not all develop under Cathro with sc having the finishing touches? If he had been as good as it's made out surely it would be a conveyor belt of talent with 1 or 2 coming into the first team every season and we don't have that.

It's hard to know. Mind a youth coach/talent scout telling me the conveyor belt was broken before it slowed up. Cathro and Stevie C both deserve a lot of credit.
The best of the young players that turned out well certainly appreciated them both but attitude counts for a lot and good wages before proven spoils and maybe stunts some. They feel they've made it before they have peaked maybe.

npb · 05/3/2017 8:34 pm

has anyone else heard thompson has fell out with lk and gd?

Tek · 05/3/2017 8:41 pm

npb wrote:
has anyone else heard thompson has fell out with lk and gd?

Lorraine Kelly and Gordon Deuchars?