Foo Kin Twat wrote:

TheShed wrote:

TheShed wrote:

 
I run a business bud, I know how to form a p&l account and forecast future expectations so I'll have a look and get back to u on this. Just out of surgery tho, so let me wake up a bit first, lol.

 

Right I almost feel alive again so here goes

Firstly just read your post again and yes It's up to the owners of the company to run it how they please.  Looking at your house conversion company example though, I'd do my homework on any company I was going to use and wouldn't be a customer of a company that I didn't believe was run right.   I'm a bit of a freak about customer service and there's corner shops I won't use because of bad service, never mind House builders.  I also like to companies who treat staff and customers right, again there's plenty businesses I won't use because of this, even when it's less convenient for myself.

In short , some would say I'm a stubborn old-fashioned bastard, and maybe I am, but the one exception to these rules I have is DUFC.  My experience of Utds customer service over the last few years is that it's severely lacking.  They've taken money off my bank acc for things I didn't get, they wouldn't answer e-mails asking for it to be dealt with, I didn't even want the money back and told them this, just something in its place.  Turn up to Tannadice to a muck covered seat regularly, when paying £20 a pop that shouldn't happen.  Been spoken to like shit by stewards on more than one occasion, and believe it or not I ain't a trouble-maker. 

I've missed games because they've made it near impossible to get tickets for them, not being in Fed and living out of town, including a Dens Derby where I was gonna get tickets after the game or on the Sunday only for them to announce it was sold out, then on the Monday they're tweeting how theirs plenty tickets still on sale, by the time I'd seen this they'd gone.  Joe Rice, the head of communications, tweeted me back to say that "If it was announced, it shouldn't have been".  No apology offered, no solution given and again the club ignored e-mails.

Had to pay for the dear cup final tickets, even tho I'm a ST holder, because of the way they let everyone and anyone get there's first, despite saying they don't.  Only for more cheap ones to go on sale the next day,Mathis has happened to me twice.

A few moans, yes, but my point is if it wasn't for the emotional attachment I'd never be anywhere near being a customer at Tannadice cos their service is shocking in my experience.

Anyway back to the finance side

Income over the last 5years has been between a lowest 5 and a highest of 6 million, so I'll work off a figure of £5.5m.

A lot of the rest is gonna be guesswork as Obviously don't have close to all the required info.

1st thing I'd want to do would be have a set amount of debt reduction as in my mind that does need done.  I'd obviously, by doing this make sure we weren't losing money, not fussed about posting a profit either tho.

Let's say £0.5m goes towards servicing the debt, including interest. Got £5m left

60%-65% wage to turnover figure is fine ( a mental number in business terms, but it's football and no profit needed).

Football budget needs to come first, so -
Management team - 200k largely bonus based (football results not transfers)
1st team squad - 1.8m, obv some senior boys on more than others, also as largely bonus based as poss.
( circa 20 in number, dev squad can top up when needed, there has to always be some who are fighting for inclusion.  )
F/T Youth/dev coaches, physios, kit man, - 200k
F/T youth players - 300k
( circa 18-20 boys, half at the age where decisions need made about 1st team future, half breaking into dev squad )
100k for other football staff, P/T coaches etc.

Commercial & Media team
2 sales guys, ticket office staff, match day hospitality staff , 2 media guys and a manager for this dept - 280k

Stadium staff
Currently have a stadium manager, h&s officer and an operations manager, I can't see 2 jobs in this never mind 3.  Groundsman, receptionist and match day staff I'll count  incl stewards in here so - 280k.

Shop staff, I believe are payed by Nike or Justsport so Ill leave them out.

The boss, whether this is the chairman,  a GM, MD, CEO or whatever In my mind it justifies 1 wage and I have no problem with it being 100k, because I want to have someone capable of commanding that salary in the job so that a bloody good job gets done.

Got about 250k/300k left to keep within 65%  of turnover.  Let's call this a safety net just in case.

Looking at other expenditure over the years it can be easily kept within or around £1m, this'll cover policing/stadium maintenance/ depreciation/ St Andrews/ travel/ hotels/  Maintenance at Gussie etc.

Sorry FKT but can't go any more detailed than that with the limited info I know.

So in the ideal world I just dreamed up we've used 500k to reduce debt, made a profit of  400-500k. Sounds easy.  I realise it's not btw and also know I'll have missed some things or got some staff numbers wrong.

I think it shows what's maybe possible tho.  I also would say any money over and above the turnover figure made from a cup run/win or highe league placing I'd quite happily use a fair chunk of as extra bonuses to the footballing side of the business.  The rest should be reinvested in that side also to improve the team or academy to make the next year better.

Feel free to laugh or correct as you wish bud.

Can't wait till my knees better so I don't have time to write shit like this.

Fantastic well thought out post mate.  Or was that the morphine speaking???!!!  Had 7 knee ops myself and need 2 new ane's too, but too young to start at only 50 so says the Surgeon.  Get well soon!
 

 
Lol, must have been the drugs, I wrote knee and it was an ankle op. 

Went well tho, home on Monday I believe

Let's hope those fans who are in the know take action and don't just come on forums like this to say " I told you so"

Foo Kin Twat wrote:

Arab_plumber wrote:

I cannot believe we were already running at a substantial weekly loss then Thompson brings in someone to do his job but does NOT take a pay cut to offset this but actually pays a 6 figure salary for sharing a job.

Amazing

I winna haud my breath, coz as usual you'll have plucked this 6-figure thing out of fresh air and then proclaimed it's FACT.  Show me the money.  Show me what the Chairman takes as an income and what the GMs annual salary is please?  Then tell me what the overlap is in what they do?  Just for once, answer a question instead of pulling pins out of grenades and throwing them for a living.
 

 Thompson takes 150k,  Southern is on 65 plus a car.

blackandtangerine wrote:

Foo Kin Twat wrote:

Arab_plumber wrote:

I cannot believe we were already running at a substantial weekly loss then Thompson brings in someone to do his job but does NOT take a pay cut to offset this but actually pays a 6 figure salary for sharing a job.

Amazing

I winna haud my breath, coz as usual you'll have plucked this 6-figure thing out of fresh air and then proclaimed it's FACT.  Show me the money.  Show me what the Chairman takes as an income and what the GMs annual salary is please?  Then tell me what the overlap is in what they do?  Just for once, answer a question instead of pulling pins out of grenades and throwing them for a living.
 

 Thompson takes 150k,  Southern is on 65 plus a car.

 
Thompson is certainly taking something cos if he'd been giving his services gratis we'd have heard about it (regularly) long before now.

I'd like to see confirmation from the club on Thompson's pay - normally I'd respect the need for this sort of thing to be confidential, but as Thompson is the owner as well as an employee and effectively sets his own salary imo it's a different matter.

I'd also want to know if the amount he was taking was reduced when Southern was appointed.

OT but while on the remuneration side of things I think we might be told if he has benefited from any bonuses, and what the basis of these were.

The only way the board (effectively Thompson) will regain trust/confidence is through being open to the maximum possible regarding the financial issues that are/have been giving concern.

I've been, and continue to be sceptical about some of the figures and accusations that have been bandied about, but there's only one person that can put this stuff to bed once and for all - and if we're heading down a division the club need every fan on board and being open and honest will be the only way to achieve this.

Foo Kin Twat wrote:

Tek wrote:

Fooky,

Given the bleak financial outlook you've just portrayed in the event of seemingly inevitable releagtion,i have to ask.....what exactly is your problem with people questioning the respective roles of David Southern and Stephen Thompson?

Given that they're two of the highest earners at the club and it would seem are picking up a wage for job-sharing the same workload that used to be covered by one,i would see this quite sensibly as one of the first points of call when we have to cut our cloth.

People keep asking a question that annoys me.Who is gonna buy the club from Thompson?Who's the alternative?

Maybe there is currently no-one on the horizon at the moment but that doesn't mean we have to accept Stephen Thompson as Chairman and one that picks up a huge wage each year.

There is a big difference between the roles of being 'Chairman' and 'majority shareholder'.One role any Tom,Dick or Harry can fulfill if they're lucky enough to be born into the right family and wealth.The other role you need a bit of credentials to fulfill successfully.

I simply feel we could do much better and have a more dynamic and (above all else at the moment) enthusiastic and charasmatic individual behind the hot-seat.

If Thompson wants to continue his majority shareholding then there is perhaps nothing the support can do about that.But we absolutely do not need to accept him continuing as Chairman if he is not doing a good job.

 
Where do I say I have a problem with asking questions of them? I merely ask for more balance. If/when we get relegated the original 5-year plan will need replaced with a new one, but the roles of Chairman and GM will be under the microscope for sure. But people are making out the GM makes major decisions and I would contest he does not.

All our woes are down to recruitment issues. People go on and on about SA and GMS, but the previous Manager gave assurances to the Chairman and BoD that we would be able to cope and that proved not to be the case. With 2 years on his contract, the Chairman and BoD were assured by the previous manager that all would be OK this season and they backed him. That proved not to be the case. Recruitment issue at the Chairman and BoD door.

Mixu was appointed. A decision you obviously backed as it was your avatar, but you've dropped him quicker than a hot tattie!!! Recruitment issue at Chairman and BoD door.

The bigger picture is in the last year the Chairman and BoD have sanctioned the signings of International Footballers in the shape of Anier, Dixon, McGowan, Kawashima, Taggart, Demel, McKay, Ofere, Risku, Pongolle.

Then you add, Durnan, Muirhead, Kuhl, Mureay, Donaldson, Gunning, Knowl, Sneijder, Bodul, JJ, Sukar. Have I missed any??? That's down to the chosen managers.

The coaching, fitness, motivation, signing etc of the players is down to the chosen managers.

I defy anyone to say the Chairman has not chucked money at it and done the exact opposite of stealing. That's assuming you can steal something you own?

Up until a year ago, he seemed to have the Midas touch but in the last year everything has turned to a crock of . I'm just not into knee jerks like having avatars for 3 months.

The 'avatar' comment is a cheap-shot mate.

I was totally against Mixu being appointed.But yeah i put that pic of him with the Finland top as a pic because i loved him as a player and wanted to show i backed him regardless.

I only changed it to JYM because...well he's my ultimate DU hero,so well...why shouldn't i?I often change my avatar,I still like Mixu+want him to succeed.

You make it sound like i'm some fangirl who's ditched 1 Direction for the latest fad.