Tekel Towers » So do you want administration then?

BennyBoy · 10/2/2016 12:20 am

There's been an increase in recent years of something I find really strange. It happened again yesterday.

Some Arabs were bemoaning the cup draw and saying that because of the cock-up, we've lost out on £X because we won't be getting a home game against Celtic.

Celtic beat us comfortably at Tannadice earlier this season with their B team. I'd say that the only way the current United side would beat Celtic would be if they had a bad day. Why would any Arab prefer a certain cup exit over an away game against County where we have a good chance of winning?

There seems to now be a large percentage of Arabs who genuinely would rather the club gets a £150k gate rather than a Semi Final day out at Hampden.

This time last year, a question was being asked frequently: "Of the three Celtic games coming up, if we could only win one, which would it be?" I thought the automatic answer would surely be the League Cup Final. But no, I heard many choosing to hypothetically lose that and win the Scottish Cup tie "because it'd be worth more money."

One last example, this question was being bandied about in 2013 on another forum: What would you rather have, a top 6 finish or win the Scottish Cup? The answer is surely the Scottish Cup, right? "I'd rather finish in the top 6 for the money."

To me, it just doesn't compute why an Arab would rather have money over a trophy. The rebuttal I often get is "so do you want administration then?", as if a trophy and administration are now the antithesis of each other.

TheShed · 10/2/2016 12:56 am

Nobody should want admin.

But you're 100% right, football is played to win trophies and we don't exactly win a lot of them so I'll take any trophy going over a bit of cash. Some of the comments since the draw re the lost cash were bizarre, figure plucked out of thin air and taken for gospel, even by tv reporters.

If we only win 3 more games all the rest of the season then I hope they're in the cup, far more important to me than the league games. Truth is there's only 2 trophies we can ever win now, we buy STs for 38 friendlies,(in terms of winning something) as do the fans of most clubs.

Can understand folk wanting to know they're clubs safe financially, but too many folk who don't know anything, treat it like the be all and end all, these folk don't understand football IMO. That's not all the folk who talk about finances btw, I'm well aware some of them get the game and would take the trophies any day.

Tek · 10/2/2016 1:04 am

BennyBoy wrote:
There's been an increase in recent years of something I find really strange. It happened again yesterday.

Some Arabs were bemoaning the cup draw and saying that because of the cock-up, we've lost out on £X because we won't be getting a home game against Celtic.

Celtic beat us comfortably at Tannadice earlier this season with their B team. I'd say that the only way the current United side would beat Celtic would be if they had a bad day. Why would any Arab prefer a certain cup exit over an away game against County where we have a good chance of winning?

There seems to now be a large percentage of Arabs who genuinely would rather the club gets a £150k gate rather than a Semi Final day out at Hampden.

This time last year, a question was being asked frequently: "Of the three Celtic games coming up, if we could only win one, which would it be?" I thought the automatic answer would surely be the League Cup Final. But no, I heard many choosing to hypothetically lose that and win the Scottish Cup tie "because it'd be worth more money."

One last example, this question was being bandied about in 2013 on another forum: What would you rather have, a top 6 finish or win the Scottish Cup? The answer is surely the Scottish Cup, right? "I'd rather finish in the top 6 for the money."

To me, it just doesn't compute why an Arab would rather have money over a trophy. The rebuttal I often get is "so do you want administration then?", as if a trophy and administration are now the antithesis of each other.

I take what you mean.Some of our fans are so obsessed about being debt free it's unreal.

Unfortunately they're a by-product of our Chairman.It's almost like they've been brainwashed to 'celebrate' us selling our best players.I for one never feel happy when we sell a Robson,Hunt,Russel or Gauld.It lessens our team and ultimately that always has a detrimental effect to us trying to win something (the whole point of the game surely?).

kiwiarab · 10/2/2016 7:16 am

no, don't want administration, ,also agree with TEK that I have never felt happy selling a good player for a lot of money

Perhaps a different way of looking at it - to win the cup, we probably need to beat Celtic, when it gets to the quarter final draw and they are still in it, we've got a better chance at Tannadice than at Hampden, so in a way I hope we get that draw. Having said that, we drew them at home in quarter finals twice recently, with a better side than we do now, and were gubbed both times (ok last year we got gubbed in the replay after a no bad performance at tannadice)

Last edited by kiwiarab (10/2/2016 7:18 am)

lifesanocean · 10/2/2016 8:11 am

I only go to cheer on the balance sheet.

'mon the balance sheet!

blackandtangerine · 10/2/2016 8:19 am

Here's one then. Cup win or stay in the league if you were guaranteed one?? I'd say cup win for. We've only ever won 5 trophies in our entire history so yeah fuck it. Cup for me.

TheShed · 10/2/2016 8:23 am

blackandtangerine wrote:
Here's one then. Cup win or stay in the league if you were guaranteed one?? I'd say cup win for. We've only ever won 5 trophies in our entire history so yeah fuck it. Cup for me.

Cup all day long.

Can't see either happening tho.

Andy · 10/2/2016 8:28 am

I'd take a cup win and relegation every year.

Playing in League Two after winning the Scottish and back to back League Cups would be tremendous.

Premiership is pish anyway, Cups rool OK.

Andy · 10/2/2016 8:33 am

On the original point, I totally agree.

Ever since Dundee went in to administration (the first time) United fans have been obsessed with the balance sheet, it's like a badge of honour that we hold over them, and right now it's okay if we're shite and get papped out the cups - as long as we don't go into administration.

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't want DUFC to go into administration.

Morphman · 10/2/2016 9:24 am

Been hit with that ane a few times ana. However I would say it's more a fashion of modern football opposed to a DUFC thing. No a massive English fitba fan but eh mind Kenny Dalglish getting the sack from Liverpool as he won the league cup and narrowly lost the FA cup final but only finished 8th in the league.

Watching that happen was the signal for me that modern fitba had lost sight of what was important. When Liverpool football club sack club legends for winning trophies that's when you ken something has gone wrong. Fans remember trophies, not the year we raked in X amount of transfer fees or income.

Ehm sad to say that if eh was offered the Scottish cup over avoiding relegation this year I reckon I'd maybe go for avoiding relegation. There's no guarantee we'd get straight back up or even back up in a few years and the detrimental impact that would have would rule us out of any sort of trophy for years. I'd take avoidance this year and regroup in the summer giving us a platform for winning cups again in the future.

Regardless of finances I don't think relegation is an option for us, but just my opinion.

EDIT: Should mention eh expect us to avoid relegation and win the cup. Mon Mixu, fuck abady WASC.

Last edited by Morphman (10/2/2016 9:26 am)

lifesanocean · 10/2/2016 10:26 am

Morphman wrote:
Been hit with that ane a few times ana. However I would say it's more a fashion of modern football opposed to a DUFC thing. No a massive English fitba fan but eh mind Kenny Dalglish getting the sack from Liverpool as he won the league cup and narrowly lost the FA cup final but only finished 8th in the league.

Watching that happen was the signal for me that modern fitba had lost sight of what was important. When Liverpool football club sack club legends for winning trophies that's when you ken something has gone wrong. Fans remember trophies, not the year we raked in X amount of transfer fees or income.

Ehm sad to say that if eh was offered the Scottish cup over avoiding relegation this year I reckon I'd maybe go for avoiding relegation. There's no guarantee we'd get straight back up or even back up in a few years and the detrimental impact that would have would rule us out of any sort of trophy for years. I'd take avoidance this year and regroup in the summer giving us a platform for winning cups again in the future.

Regardless of finances I don't think relegation is an option for us, but just my opinion.

EDIT: Should mention eh expect us to avoid relegation and win the cup. Mon Mixu, fuck abady WASC.

This for me too. Spot on.

Arab_plumber · 10/2/2016 10:38 am

Tek has probably made the most poignant point here about been brain washed into celebrating selling players to be debt free,I just don't trust Thompson anymore and never will again after the last 2 years.

Would also take a cup win to go along with relegation, it feels wrong admitting that!!!

PatReilly · 10/2/2016 11:38 am

Hard questions. I think some of the support have great fear for the financial situation at the club, but I have no inside information on that front.

Jim Spence, a few weeks back, was asked on radio about his feelings regarding United going into administration, and he said he couldn't go back and support them if that happened, and would go and watch the Juniors. He did emphasise he had no reason to believe administration was in any way imminent.

I'm deflated every time we sell a good player. And a wee bit puzzled that on the one hand fans should be angry about bringing in money, while also angry about the direction the club is taking regarding lessening of debt.

I'd love a return to the days when I could go to the games and get pissed, and just be bothered about the football and not the boardroom.

Last edited by PatReilly (10/2/2016 11:38 am)

Beharder · 10/2/2016 11:39 am

The hope of winning a trophy is what keeps the provincial clubs going. I always hope to get a winnable draw, you don't have to beat Celtic to win a trophy, we beat Celtic (81) and still didn't lift the cup. Leave the financial stuff to the directors.

PatReilly · 10/2/2016 11:39 am

Beharder wrote:
Leave the financial stuff to the directors.

Snap!

doontheroadarab · 10/2/2016 11:53 am

PatReilly wrote:
Beharder wrote:
Leave the financial stuff to the directors.
Snap!

Spot On

BennyBoy · 10/2/2016 5:56 pm

blackandtangerine wrote:
Here's one then. Cup win or stay in the league if you were guaranteed one?? I'd say cup win for. We've only ever won 5 trophies in our entire history so yeah fuck it. Cup for me.

That's a tough one, but I'll say this: If I were to put money on Wigan fans choosing to remain in the English top flight or winning the FA Cup in retrospect, I'd say it'd be the FA Cup.

Last edited by BennyBoy (10/2/2016 5:57 pm)

Billy_Hainey · 10/2/2016 8:15 pm

Winning the cup would be good from a Footballing and Financial sense.
Relegation would be bad from a Footballing and Financial sense.

plagiarism et al

japanarab · 11/2/2016 12:40 am

Cup win for me every time. Ordinary fans on the street shouldn't be worrying about a clubs finances. Surely that's baldy's job. When I see long posts on various forums about finances I immediately leave them. I know it's important but I'm not a football fan due to some boardroom workings. I'm a fan because of guys like Luggy, Ralphie, Dalgleish, Maradona etc etc. Was scary watching Match of the Day and hearing them say Leicester's team "only" cost 23 million---in context it is cheap, but ferk me!!

blackandtangerine · 11/2/2016 10:54 am

japanarab wrote:
Cup win for me every time. Ordinary fans on the street shouldn't be worrying about a clubs finances. Surely that's baldy's job. When I see long posts on various forums about finances I immediately leave them. I know it's important but I'm not a football fan due to some boardroom workings. I'm a fan because of guys like Luggy, Ralphie, Dalgleish, Maradona etc etc. Was scary watching Match of the Day and hearing them say Leicester's team "only" cost 23 million---in context it is cheap, but ferk me!!

I used to think that tae until the latter few years. Then Derek Robertson started coming to fed committe meetings and giving us financial info. He was always a glass half empty person and tbh most of us on committee thought he was "just being Derek". However, approx a year ago we received information saying that the club's losing 5 figures a week and things wernt rosy at our club. The other week we were told that club had to sell a player to bring in cash to help pay wages in the upcoming months. When you hear that info then surely we've got to be worried about where our clubs heading. We need answers because make no mistake getting relegated will have some serious consequences for the future of the club.
To some I'm a doom and gloomer and negative but I think the stuff I hear makes me entitled to think like that.

Tek · 11/2/2016 11:10 am

I think there's a difference though between wanting to keep your best players for awhile longer as a fan and being concerned at your club running at a worrying loss.

Particulary when that info is being drip-fed by Utd Directors so is therefore fact rather than hearsay.

As i said most Utd supporters have became a by-product of the Chairman and BoD we've had in recent years.In regards as we're all having to focus far too much on finances at the club rather than just being able to 'enjoy' supporting the club.

TheShed · 11/2/2016 11:17 am

Tek wrote:
Particulary when that info is being drip-fed by Utd Directors so is therefore fact rather than hearsay.
.

This is 1 of the biggest problems at our club, either tell us the facts openly or shut the fuck up and deal with them properly. Unfortunately some like to play to the audience in their local and let people think they're in the know, just so they can act the big shot.

blackandtangerine · 11/2/2016 11:24 am

TheShed wrote:
Tek wrote:
Particulary when that info is being drip-fed by Utd Directors so is therefore fact rather than hearsay.
.

This is 1 of the biggest problems at our club, either tell us the facts openly or shut the fuck up and deal with them properly. Unfortunately some like to play to the audience in their local and let people think they're in the know, just so they can act the big shot.

Leave Thompson out of it

DontOfferMeThat · 11/2/2016 11:25 am

This is the conundrum though isn't it? It's not a fair competition where we can watch the season unfold and the best players/management win. It's tough free market economics. Wee Jum always said we were like the cornershop and things have got worse since then.Of course I'd like us to win the cup but I'd far rather see us stay up! The implications of a failing business are stark: less talented employees, less training resources, less advertising pull - it's a downwards spiral. it would be great if the ticket money and the competition money all went in a pot, the league was larger so we had more variety, maybe play summer football so more fans come along etc etc blaa blaa blaa But the oligopoly which exists within Scottish Football dictates that the teams with the biggest profitability will do best.and they will never give up that privileged position. Those that don't run profitably will fail.
As a utd fan we know we take that bitter pill and players will go but to bring in the ££££ we have in the last 18 months - the club had better not be in dire straits....or someone has a lot of explaining to do!
So no - I'll take trading profitably over a cup win. As long as those profits are ploughed into making a decent sustainable team !

Sieb22 · 11/2/2016 12:13 pm

BennyBoy wrote:
blackandtangerine wrote:
Here's one then. Cup win or stay in the league if you were guaranteed one?? I'd say cup win for. We've only ever won 5 trophies in our entire history so yeah fuck it. Cup for me.
That's a tough one, but I'll say this: If I were to put money on Wigan fans choosing to remain in the English top flight or winning the FA Cup in retrospect, I'd say it'd be the FA Cup.

Playing Devil's Advocate, but what about Portsmouth fans, 1 FA Cup win in 2008 followed by admin and three relegations, with another admin thrown in for good measure.