Tekel Towers » Are we any better than last season?

Tek · 08/1/2017 2:51 am

I'd say no.

We've just came up against poorer sides.

Appreciate McKinnon perhaps has a lesser budget and harder job to attract players as a result (and because of our demotion).

But imo we are truly awful to watch.Just as bad as anytime over the last year infact.

Only difference is the opposition is weaker.

My fear is we would struggle to get a result v any of the bottom 6 in the Prem.

npb · 08/1/2017 3:36 am

yesterday was as much the managers fault. will ross county play us off the park for 75 minutes. no chance.

bowers · 08/1/2017 9:09 am

I said a few month back that the performamces similar to what we had seen under the previous 2 managers.. They imrpoved slightly but again have taken a dip throughout our unbeaten run and its not been pretty the past month.

Needs to improve

TheShed · 08/1/2017 10:03 am

We're slightly better imo.

I accept we're not great to watch, but the balance of the squad is wrong for that, also you just don't get good to watch games in this league. We were showing a far better attitude and even a bit of steel and far better professionalism, that's gone in the last week, hopefully will be back soon.

I wonder how much the transfer window being open has to do with the seemingly worse attitude, just a thought but if Ray has got players lined up and is trying to free cash up to get them in, I'm sure there's been some tough conversations had recently and perhaps a little dent in the morale in the squad?

If still in Prem we would def be in the bottom 7 mix tho and I was thinking the other night how many of this squad would I want if we went up, answer for me was around 8 plus some of the dev squad, buts let's face it if there was real prospects in there they should be knocking harder on the 1st team door in this league.

lifesanocean · 08/1/2017 10:03 am

I'd say yes. We've played two Premiership teams this season. Did we struggle? No. A draw away to ICT and absolutely wiped the floor with Partick. Performances have poorer recently but we've been showing 'grit', something we've not had since the Houston days.

I'll say one thing about us though, we do meltdowns better than anyone else.

Last edited by lifesanocean (08/1/2017 10:05 am)

Beharder · 08/1/2017 10:26 am

Agree with that LAO a couple of bad results and suddenly RM dosent know what he is doing the 14 match unbeaten run is ignored. What certainly has improved is the spirit and will to win. We have won games this year without being the best team the opppsite was the case last year.

bowers · 08/1/2017 10:40 am

People seem to be forgetting that throughout the 14 game run people still said that performances tactics line ups hadnt been the best but we had been grinding out results.

annanarab · 08/1/2017 10:41 am

We are better. If we still had Jackie we would be nearer the bottom than the top and if we had Mixu we d be battling for top 4. When we have all our players fit and played in their correct positions, we are a couple of players short of a decent side. We need to get players in and play to the teams strengths not their weaknesses and make sure we actually test our opponents fully in each match instead of the current midfield posing. Summary better but not quite good enough yet.

Last edited by annanarab (08/1/2017 3:39 pm)

Mass Debates · 08/1/2017 11:10 am

For me we are better.

Keeper much better
Defence looks much improved on last season (apart from Friday) but Edge has been such a good signing
Defensive side of midfield (Friday apart again) has been good with Willo and Charlie doing well.
Andreu has been impressive and in bursts Fraser has been excellent, just not every week. The main issues are the full back and up till now we haven't had that man to lead the line (hopefully this is now in hand)

Teams are making it hard for us to play in the main and we really got shown up on Friday but a win next week and we can hopefully kick on again.

Rocky Raccoon · 08/1/2017 12:11 pm

We are a better side now, a better all round unit.

The fast few months we have not played well but we picked up points, weaker opposition or not we could not have done that last season.

08/1/2017 1:34 pm

bowers wrote:
People seem to be forgetting that throughout the 14 game run people still said that performances tactics line ups hadnt been the best but we had been grinding out results.

What's your point?

08/1/2017 2:20 pm

We were truly terrible last season, embarrassingly bad.

We may not be where we'd like to be but factoring in budget constraints I'd say we've improved quite a bit.

The real question might be 'should we have improved more?'

TheShed · 08/1/2017 4:30 pm

scarpia wrote:
We were truly terrible last season, embarrassingly bad.

We may not be where we'd like to be but factoring in budget constraints I'd say we've improved quite a bit.

The real question might be 'should we have improved more?'

That's a fair question and there's 2 ways of looking at it (like most things in life).

Looking at it basically, Ray should have had a more balanced squad to pick from, so he's got that wrong along with a couple of his signings not being as good as he clearly hoped. So if he'd got that right then we would have been better.

The other side is has he had to fight to get the money to sign players? Don't know
Has there literally been no strikers that would improve us available at the financial level we are at? Don't know
Did he want more players out in the summer to free up wages and this proved impossible? Don't know (I suspect so)
So maybe he's done the best he could up to now.

We're impatient and want success quickly, there's nothing wrong with that, but sometimes it takes longer than we'd want. If every supporter just went oh well play offs will do, or well we can't expect to always be top 6 then the standards slip because the pressures off. Good managers, players, even chairman will always work better under a bit of pressure of expectation.

Time will tell with RM but I think to actually answer your question..... maybe.

Arabnophobia · 08/1/2017 4:41 pm

scarpia wrote:
We were truly terrible last season, embarrassingly bad.

We may not be where we'd like to be but factoring in budget constraints I'd say we've improved quite a bit.

The real question might be 'should we have improved more?'

I agree most with your comment there Scarpia.

PatReilly · 08/1/2017 6:36 pm

Definitely better: the defence is markedly stronger, the midfield slightly so and forward areas much the same.

SlatefordArab · 08/1/2017 7:14 pm

Yes we are better in that we are much more organised, motivated and have a manager who clearly has a vision. Ok, Friday night was like something from the last days of Jackie and most of Mixu's reign but I for one can see definite signs of progress under RM. Yes, we still need players and yes not everything he has done has been great - all managers make mistakes though, even the very best like Fergie (Taibi anyone).

I know we are all down after last week and Friday but we are still in this league title, Hibs will lose games between now and the end of the season, we just need to make sure we get back to winning, no matter how ugly it is.

Tek · 08/1/2017 8:52 pm

If we had players from last seasons relegation team like Paton,Dow,McKay,Ofere,Anier,Harry Souttar and JJ i reckon we would still be 2nd.

I honestly don't think we are any better at all in all honesty.

Foo Kin Twat · 08/1/2017 8:59 pm

I've been out of the Country for twa weeks and been looking in from afar and I'll say again, you cannot compare the (rotten) apples of last season and this season's pears. Last season (and before) we had no fight, organisation or structure. The Manager had to come in and build a complete football club from scratch on a fraction of the budget of his two predecessors. My expectations therefore were; and still are; that we are hopefully able to contest the play off game. That would be level par. It is and has been obvious for weeks/months that we lack fluidity and pace and width and a target man. No-one gets their transfer targets 100% correct, but IMO Raymondo is better than par with his eye for a player thus far. We need to hold our nerve and see how this window plays out. I saw a brilliant tweet the other day saying simply "McKinnon" with a GIF of a guy flogging a dead horse. That sums it up for me. On what our budget is, you cannot expect him to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. We are far too bi polar for our own good. We need to see how this window plays out and have momentum and form in March through May and hopefully that will be good enough to get us out of this hole.

PatReilly · 08/1/2017 9:10 pm

Tek wrote:
If we had players from last seasons relegation team like Paton,Dow,McKay,Ofere,Anier,Harry Souttar and JJ i reckon we would still be 2nd.

I honestly don't think we are any better at all in all honesty.

Paton was a poor player in my eyes, Ofere wasn't the fittest and struggled to control the ball, McKay appeared to lose whatever he had (and it wasn't pace) when he left ICT, Dow was always the Nearly Man, Anier an enigma, JJ looks like he's flopped for the bottom team in the National League....... Souttar the only defender on the list, now 18, unlikely he'd have been as consistent or reliable as William Edge or Durnan.

I might be wrong with Souttar, the others, doubtful, but we'll never know.

Tek · 08/1/2017 9:39 pm

PatReilly wrote:
Tek wrote:
If we had players from last seasons relegation team like Paton,Dow,McKay,Ofere,Anier,Harry Souttar and JJ i reckon we would still be 2nd.

I honestly don't think we are any better at all in all honesty.

Paton was a poor player in my eyes, Ofere wasn't the fittest and struggled to control the ball, McKay appeared to lose whatever he had (and it wasn't pace) when he left ICT, Dow was always the Nearly Man, Anier an enigma, JJ looks like he's flopped for the bottom team in the National League....... Souttar the only defender on the list, now 18, unlikely he'd have been as consistent or reliable as William Edge or Durnan.

I might be wrong with Souttar, the others, doubtful, but we'll never know.

As i say Pat,i reckon we would be at least 2nd with those players.

Not that i particularly rate any of them btw.

I just don't think we have quite achieved the progression that others seem to think McKinnon has.

Foo Kin Twat · 08/1/2017 9:39 pm

Looking ahead to if/when we get out of this League, a serious dose of realisation will be needed in our support too going forward, as with the arse cheeks, Aberdeen and the two Embra Clubs back, getting into the Top 6 would be the equivalent of us winning the League. That's not defeatist in any way either, it's being a realist. But for now ALL our focus should be on escaping the Championship, by hook or by crook!

Morphman · 09/1/2017 9:11 am

We're far better than last season, better players and less bottlers IMO. Bar Friday nighr our midfield dominates the vast majority of teams and if it weren't for the unbelieveable amount of penalties conceded we would be looking much stronger at the back as well.

Ray has made us hard to best first and foremost. That is what we've been missing basically since the end of the Levein/Houston era. Its not been pretty but in one transfer window McKinnon has took us from relegation fodder to 4 points off Hibs after 20 games. Going forward we lack any sort of width and pace, however McKinnon has stated that he is aware of this and is attempting to bring in bodies to help out.

We are a work in progress and I'd take scrappy wins and draws in this league. Dundee tried for years to play their way out of this division and it kept them down for alnost a decade. I'd love improved performances and sleek football but it is difficult when more or less 7 of the sides in the league are probably only interested in sitting behind the ball and playing off of set peices.

In Ray I trust

Billy_Hainey · 09/1/2017 9:51 am

Difficult one this. Mibbee a wee bit simplistic. The way I look at this is to compare ourselves with Hivees. Lots of folk saying they're defo a side good enough to be in the Scottish Premiership, probably top half, mid-table at worst. Well we're only just behind them, so at worst we'd be bottom half, or at best we'd be mid-table. Of course as Tek pointed oot in the OP, the opposition in the SP are a lot tougher, well some of them anyway.

But it was a Yes for me.

09/1/2017 10:10 am

I'd say we are definitely better and saying otherwise is just a knee-jerk reaction to a couple of defeats. I know we've not been hammering teams and knocking the ball around like Barcelona, but did anyone really expect that?

I'm happy enough that we stay tucked in behind Hibs for now and see what happens.

Arab_plumber · 09/1/2017 10:57 am

P

Morphman wrote:
We're far better than last season, better players and less bottlers IMO. Bar Friday nighr our midfield dominates the vast majority of teams and if it weren't for the unbelieveable amount of penalties conceded we would be looking much stronger at the back as well.

Ray has made us hard to best first and foremost. That is what we've been missing basically since the end of the Levein/Houston era. Its not been pretty but in one transfer window McKinnon has took us from relegation fodder to 4 points off Hibs after 20 games. Going forward we lack any sort of width and pace, however McKinnon has stated that he is aware of this and is attempting to bring in bodies to help out.

We are a work in progress and I'd take scrappy wins and draws in this league. Dundee tried for years to play their way out of this division and it kept them down for alnost a decade. I'd love improved performances and sleek football but it is difficult when more or less 7 of the sides in the league are probably only interested in sitting behind the ball and playing off of set peices.

In Ray I trust

Morphy I can't honestly remember the last game our midfield bossed the game it's simply not happened in a few months and I've been to every game.

The two CH's keeper and VDS are much better than last season but we've less forward options and the midfield is still powder puff although Willo does a decent job Friday apart.
We are still carrying passengers in every 11 that starts...VDV Spittal Tope Murray Telfer are all poor players who only contribute the odd game here and there.

I don't think we are any better overall either but RM can't build a team in one window and I'm praying he has at least 2 more good additions coming in this month.

I don't see us beating an SPL team in the play offs as things stand